Werewolf, Just to be clear - at no time did I ever infer that anytime anyone is covered by some dummy in a gunshop, anyone should run over and disarm them. What I said was if I were the clerk - and the old guy was sticking a gun in my face -I would feel threatened enough to act. I cannot imagine that it is OK with the owners of the shop that their customers stick guns in the face (or chest or genitals or anything else) of their staff.
So you can continue to think I don't know much, but at least I know enough that the laws of each state apply and they are all different. I also know that in Texas, I would be within my rights to defend myself from a
perceived threat:
http://www.lectlaw.com/def/b012.htm
Everyone that only reads short posts, stop here!
Colin... thank you very much for all the additional information that was not in your first post on the matter. It does clarify things a lot when all the details are known, don't you think?
Clarifying those details I certainly cannot defend what the car salesman did. I clearly understand now that he was not trying to offer you something better for the same price. Unfortunately it is guys like that that give all car salesmen a bad rap.
iiibdsiil said:
Who calls to make an appointment at a car dealership? Seriously. Unless you've got one guy that you ALWAYS deal with...
Seriously? Nearly 80% of the cars I sell are by appointment only. I don't want to be that guy Colin complained about (who I now understand much more clearly) nor do I wish to waste my time educating every tire kicker that doesn't have anything better to do on our busiest day of the week, month, etc.
What most consumers completely disregard is that car salesmen - the honest professional ones & the 'other ones' alike that we are all associated with, do not get paid unless they sell a car. 5 people in one day who have no intention to buy anything only ensure one thing. That I won't get paid for working 13 hours today.
With the information available today on the internet, I find it exceedingly ironic that so many people that ALL say they don't trust car salesmen come to the car lot to ask them questions about cars instead of educating themselves elsewhere and
then coming in for a test drive.
Most shoppers (not buyers) come in extremely defensive because they don't trust car salesmen, when in reality they don't trust the process and feel undergunned and intimidated. We have to get past that and try to build trust with every single one, whether they are serious about buying or whether they even CAN by. Proably 30-35% of shoppers cannot buy because of credit issues. Honestly. And we cannot know that until we go through the whole process. BUT.... THEY already know they have credit problems... they sure don't ever volunteer that information up front!
An awful lot of people don't like to negotiate. They just hate the whole car buying scene. I can't blame them if they don't like it, but they do have options. If someone walks up and tells me 'I want to buy a car and I hate to haggle. If you don't insult my intelligence and give me a good price I will buy from you today' I will first find exactly the right vehicle (meaning the one they want with all the right options and no more) and will sit down and I will usually give them a good, fair offer right away. About 75% of the time I do that, they will try to get a liiiiittle bit more of a discount, i.e. they start negotiating. Haggling is such an unpleasant term to most Americans.
Conversely the guy who walks up and says 'give me your bottom dollar price right now or I'm leaving' I will work... hard. What other business in the WORLD starts negotiating by giving their lowest offer? Not one. These same people will then complain about that 'a**hole car salesman' trying to sell me a car for MSRP or playing games. MSRP by definition IS the price of the car. I cannot count the number of people that want to just walk away when they ask 'what is the price of this truck' and I point to the sticker. That doesn't mean they can't get it for cheaper, but that doesn't mean I am throwing the baby out with the bath water either.
And that is why I make appointments with customers. Because my time is just as valuable as theirs and I honor them to much to waste theirs, even if they don't show me the same common courtesy. By the time they come in, I have talked to them on the phone or even only by email and they know that I will be honest, up front and treat them with respect. Those customers who make appointments are typically better educated about what they want and the entire process is much less stressful.
Seriously