The High Power Revolver Defense Option.
- Thread starter Zorro
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Yeah I like revolvers... but I can't find an IWB for a Colt New Service.
fistful
member
You are all such girly-men. If I'm expecting trouble I might take my 155mm Paladin, but a real man doesn't need a gun most of the time. I'm as hard as steel, I'm bulletproof, I got ninja moves to dodge bullets, grab them out of the air, and reload them into their casings while I'm beating my opponent into a bloody soup!
I'm still following the advice of my brigade commander from Basic Training/Infantry AIT. "You need to be tougher than woodpecker lips! Tough enough to grab your opponents ears and rip 'em both right off his head, if necessary."
Carry a gun, ha! That's for chicks and small children.
I'm still following the advice of my brigade commander from Basic Training/Infantry AIT. "You need to be tougher than woodpecker lips! Tough enough to grab your opponents ears and rip 'em both right off his head, if necessary."
Carry a gun, ha! That's for chicks and small children.
Marshall
Member
Carry what you shoot best regardless of what it is, as long as it's big enough.
I will say, shock has a huge effect on BG's. Hit em just once in the shoulder with a 45acp, .45lc, .40SW, 10mm, .44mag, .41mag. 357mag and they will put bodily fluids and solids in their shorts, lay there and shake like an epileptic and think the white rabbit is somewhere close by.
The .25's, .32's, .380's, 9mm's, .38's, etc., don't have good enough odds of making the same happen. So yes, better have a full mag or two so the white rabbitt doesn't visit you instead.
I will say, shock has a huge effect on BG's. Hit em just once in the shoulder with a 45acp, .45lc, .40SW, 10mm, .44mag, .41mag. 357mag and they will put bodily fluids and solids in their shorts, lay there and shake like an epileptic and think the white rabbit is somewhere close by.
The .25's, .32's, .380's, 9mm's, .38's, etc., don't have good enough odds of making the same happen. So yes, better have a full mag or two so the white rabbitt doesn't visit you instead.
Andrew Wyatt
Member
measure the width of your revolver cylinder with a pair of calipers.
now, measure the width of the slide on a 1911. which is thinner?
Autos are easier to carry.
now, measure the width of the slide on a 1911. which is thinner?
Autos are easier to carry.
Ease of carry is in the eye of the beholder. No two people are made just the same so it is an individual issue. I also would never carry a 1911 because 1)I dont like the idea of "cocked and locked" 2) I have seen way too many of them fail to fire at critical moments, 3) Too many ways to disable the gun at extreme close quarters. 4)I just plain dont like them. Sorry, I know there are tons of people who swear by the things but they never did anything for me.
Second point. As stated, a well aimed shot with a .22 is very effective. There are many different loads, bullet types and so on today. A .38 RNL is not nearly as effective as a 158 gr LHP +P round. Again, got to find what works well in your gun for your purpose.
Second point. As stated, a well aimed shot with a .22 is very effective. There are many different loads, bullet types and so on today. A .38 RNL is not nearly as effective as a 158 gr LHP +P round. Again, got to find what works well in your gun for your purpose.
seeker_two
Member
Zorro:
Everyone else here has given you good advice. I just want to add one more thing....
Take your revolver to an IPSC/IDPA match. Use the same carry setup and ammo that you use for carry. Run the course.
If you can consistently rank in the middle of the pack (or higher), you've got a good combo. Keep it.
If not, then you need to evaluate if the problem lies w/ the gun, the ammo, the carry setup, or the shooter.
When you change one of the first three, repeat.
If nothing changes, practice more.
(BTW, I can consistenly rank in the middle in my IPSC group while shooting 9mm, .45ACP, 38SPL, & .357MAG. I can't do it w/ anything larger....yet. )
Glad you caught that one, Tamara. Even S&W doesn't deserve the rap for that...
Everyone else here has given you good advice. I just want to add one more thing....
Take your revolver to an IPSC/IDPA match. Use the same carry setup and ammo that you use for carry. Run the course.
If you can consistently rank in the middle of the pack (or higher), you've got a good combo. Keep it.
If not, then you need to evaluate if the problem lies w/ the gun, the ammo, the carry setup, or the shooter.
When you change one of the first three, repeat.
If nothing changes, practice more.
(BTW, I can consistenly rank in the middle in my IPSC group while shooting 9mm, .45ACP, 38SPL, & .357MAG. I can't do it w/ anything larger....yet.
)Glad you caught that one, Tamara. Even S&W doesn't deserve the rap for that...
Moparmike
Member
Umm, 9mm & 10mm doesn't flare up my Carpel? They don't feel like my wrist is going to break? They dont try to plant themselves in my forehead? They dont require a brace to shoot?
Why are these bad things?
Powderman
Member
Your .44 mag will be a good choice if you load with .44 Specials--nice, thick heavy bullets moving at moderate velocities.
You must think about a few things first, before carrying with .44 magnum ammunition:
1. Recoverability. Cap off a Magnum round, you'll see what I'm talking about.
2. Muzzle flash. In a 4 or even 6 inch barrel, the flash from a .44 is bright, even during the day. At night, can you say flashbulb?
3. Penetration. The .45 ACP is recognized as a fight stopper. It was derived from the .45 Colt, which is probably one of the best fighting cartridges ever designed. Heavy slugs between 900-1000 fps knock the snot out of what they hit. The .44 Magnum can surpass the energy of the .45 Colt in most loadings, to be sure.
But that .44 will zip through so fast that it will barely dump any energy into the target. I read an account once--I believe that it was one of the Ayoob files--where a kid shot someone with a Ruger Super Blackhawk, loaded with 240 grain JSP. The round went through and through, and the perp stood there in disbelief, finally collapsing a minute or so later.
I personally prefer the big Colt auto. I carry one, both on and off duty. The .40 is no slouch, either--out of a Glock or another suitable platform, it can do the job without a doubt.
But, it still stands that I'd rather face a novice handgunner with a .454 Casull than an expert with a .32 ACP.
You must think about a few things first, before carrying with .44 magnum ammunition:
1. Recoverability. Cap off a Magnum round, you'll see what I'm talking about.
2. Muzzle flash. In a 4 or even 6 inch barrel, the flash from a .44 is bright, even during the day. At night, can you say flashbulb?
3. Penetration. The .45 ACP is recognized as a fight stopper. It was derived from the .45 Colt, which is probably one of the best fighting cartridges ever designed. Heavy slugs between 900-1000 fps knock the snot out of what they hit. The .44 Magnum can surpass the energy of the .45 Colt in most loadings, to be sure.
But that .44 will zip through so fast that it will barely dump any energy into the target. I read an account once--I believe that it was one of the Ayoob files--where a kid shot someone with a Ruger Super Blackhawk, loaded with 240 grain JSP. The round went through and through, and the perp stood there in disbelief, finally collapsing a minute or so later.
I personally prefer the big Colt auto. I carry one, both on and off duty. The .40 is no slouch, either--out of a Glock or another suitable platform, it can do the job without a doubt.
But, it still stands that I'd rather face a novice handgunner with a .454 Casull than an expert with a .32 ACP.
I do not proscribe to the spray and pray philosophy.
END QUOTE
Good however this has nothing to do with your choice of weapons. Cops have sprayed and prayed with 38 revolvers in the past. They just ran out quicker.
SNIP
Well-aimed shots end fights, that was true in the old west and it is true now.
END QUOTE
Ok again this has nothing to do with a revolver vs an auto.
SNIP
I prefer a Magnum revolver in .41 or .44 Magnum to any high capacity semi auto pistol.
END QUOTE
Good for you. Both of these calibers are on the diminishing returns end of the horse power range for defense against humans.
SNIP
Explain if you can why a 9mm or 10mm Semi auto is superior to one well-aimed Magnum Revolver bullet?
END QUOTE
Be glad too. Well for starters in the time it takes you to fire 2 44 mag rounds aimed. I can bet I could fire 3 or 4 rounds from a service sized 9mm or 45 acp. More holes in the target is better than less holes.
SNIP
Semi Autos may fire fast but a Magnum punches through Body Armor and helmets.
END QUOTE
Acutally a level 3A vest will stop your beloved 44 mag. And KWT rounds from a 9mm will punch right through it. Again the ability to stop armor should not be a concern to the average person. Its a small concern to law enforcement but not a large one.
SNIP
Throwing 100-200 Rounds per minute in the air with a Semi Auto is counter productive.
END QUOTE
Not sure where that came from. The simple truth is that you wil lbe able to fire faster and more accurately with a 9mm or 45 acp auto loader than you will with a 41 or 44 mag revolver.
But if you use good tactics and keep your skills sharp your revolvers will serve you well. I personally prefer my Kimber 1911 Custom Classic. When I am not carring that I have my Glock 26 on.
Pat
END QUOTE
Good however this has nothing to do with your choice of weapons. Cops have sprayed and prayed with 38 revolvers in the past. They just ran out quicker.
SNIP
Well-aimed shots end fights, that was true in the old west and it is true now.
END QUOTE
Ok again this has nothing to do with a revolver vs an auto.
SNIP
I prefer a Magnum revolver in .41 or .44 Magnum to any high capacity semi auto pistol.
END QUOTE
Good for you. Both of these calibers are on the diminishing returns end of the horse power range for defense against humans.
SNIP
Explain if you can why a 9mm or 10mm Semi auto is superior to one well-aimed Magnum Revolver bullet?
END QUOTE
Be glad too. Well for starters in the time it takes you to fire 2 44 mag rounds aimed. I can bet I could fire 3 or 4 rounds from a service sized 9mm or 45 acp. More holes in the target is better than less holes.
SNIP
Semi Autos may fire fast but a Magnum punches through Body Armor and helmets.
END QUOTE
Acutally a level 3A vest will stop your beloved 44 mag. And KWT rounds from a 9mm will punch right through it. Again the ability to stop armor should not be a concern to the average person. Its a small concern to law enforcement but not a large one.
SNIP
Throwing 100-200 Rounds per minute in the air with a Semi Auto is counter productive.
END QUOTE
Not sure where that came from. The simple truth is that you wil lbe able to fire faster and more accurately with a 9mm or 45 acp auto loader than you will with a 41 or 44 mag revolver.
But if you use good tactics and keep your skills sharp your revolvers will serve you well. I personally prefer my Kimber 1911 Custom Classic. When I am not carring that I have my Glock 26 on.
Pat
biere
Member
If you use the right load, a 44 mag revolver can do many things.
For in town, 44 special or 44 mag lite loads would be my choice. Keep a reload of super rounds if worried about helmets and vests attacking.
For out of town when going where 4 legged predators consider 2 leggers a meal, load up with hunting loads.
I believe there are some 44 special revolvers intended for ccw use, didn't s&w make an air weight for a bit? I doubt it was that much thinner than a 44 mag revolver depending on the number of shots. I don't know if it was a 5 or 6 shot.
One thing I like about my 44 mag revolver with a 5.5 inch barrel is that the lower powered 44 mag rounds don't seem to recoil as much but they still do a number on varmints.
There have been some points made that can be researched in other threads.
The idea of a revolver vs. a semi-auto must come up once a week or so and get seriously discussed once a month or so.
The idea of split times for shots, time for x number of aimed shots down range, and similar things also gets discussed now and then.
Run some searches and decide for yourself if what you wish to carry will do what you want it to do.
For in town, 44 special or 44 mag lite loads would be my choice. Keep a reload of super rounds if worried about helmets and vests attacking.
For out of town when going where 4 legged predators consider 2 leggers a meal, load up with hunting loads.
I believe there are some 44 special revolvers intended for ccw use, didn't s&w make an air weight for a bit? I doubt it was that much thinner than a 44 mag revolver depending on the number of shots. I don't know if it was a 5 or 6 shot.
One thing I like about my 44 mag revolver with a 5.5 inch barrel is that the lower powered 44 mag rounds don't seem to recoil as much but they still do a number on varmints.
There have been some points made that can be researched in other threads.
The idea of a revolver vs. a semi-auto must come up once a week or so and get seriously discussed once a month or so.
The idea of split times for shots, time for x number of aimed shots down range, and similar things also gets discussed now and then.
Run some searches and decide for yourself if what you wish to carry will do what you want it to do.
re: High Power Magnum revolvers
Let's go above the 44 Magnum. Has there ever been any recorded shootings of a person with a 454 Casull or 475 Linebaugh? I would think a 400-420 grain bullet from the Linebaugh would really put someone's lights out permanently. Would either of these rounds with the heavy cast bullets penetrate vests?
Let's go above the 44 Magnum. Has there ever been any recorded shootings of a person with a 454 Casull or 475 Linebaugh? I would think a 400-420 grain bullet from the Linebaugh would really put someone's lights out permanently. Would either of these rounds with the heavy cast bullets penetrate vests?
Rabbi;
There was a situation in NYPD where a female officer fired all five rounds in her 3" J frame into a perp. She did not have to reload but suffered a severe beat down at his hands. Statistics will show no reload even when officers are injured. She recovered and has been mentioned in Ayoobs work. Personally, I prefer an auto but could use a revolver as well for personal defense.
106rr
There was a situation in NYPD where a female officer fired all five rounds in her 3" J frame into a perp. She did not have to reload but suffered a severe beat down at his hands. Statistics will show no reload even when officers are injured. She recovered and has been mentioned in Ayoobs work. Personally, I prefer an auto but could use a revolver as well for personal defense.
106rr
What kind of ammo was loaded? My impression is that with .38 it makes a huge difference whether you are shooting 125gr RNL or 158gr LHP +P. The latter is said by everyone to be very effective.
Sure, there are situations where people need to reload. But it doesnt happen often enough for most of us to worry about.
Sure, there are situations where people need to reload. But it doesnt happen often enough for most of us to worry about.
Marshall
Member
She was a good enough shot, should've put one in his head and that would have been the end of that.
Marshall,
Unfortunately, not everyone is a cool, calm and deliberate as you! The woman returned fire and put five rounds into her assailant. Since she got stomped it is only appropriate that you should criticize her preformance.
Oh, and for the record there are documentated cases of 38 Specials in the head bouncing off or skidding around under the skin without penetrating. If that had happend to her, what would your criticism have been?
TonyB
Member
Yeah,you guys and your multi-shot guns..whimps...real men carry single shot 50 cal. muzzle-loaders.......cause we know how to shoot
Edward429451
member
9 & 10mm's can be well aimed also and can carry more rounds in a more compact package and cycle faster than a revolver, even with identical loads?
I seen a 40S&W fully penetrate a piece of 3/8" mild plate steel. Semi autos can be slowed down and magnums can be speeded up with appropriate loads & handling. I suspect he's hinting at a SHTF scenario here too in which case he'd be better off with a rifle.
I doubt he's trolling...He's just chewing on all those good responses! He'll be back after he digests them and be a little wiser. Live n' learn a lil' everyday.
MrAcheson came right to the point. Everything after is just gravy.
cratz2
Member
I absolutely subscribe to the theory of carrying what you can carry and what you can shoot the best. I've carried everything from a itty bitty Kahr P9 to a full size steel 1911 to a ported Taurus 85CHULT in the last few years. I do prefer to carry pistols to revolvers but there are many pistols that I can carry in complete confidence.
Now, as to reasons why I wouldn't consider carrying a 44 Magnum:
I've said it before and I'll say it again... Assuming very similar shot placement, I'd MUCH rather take a single round of LSWC or LSWCHP 44 Magnum than three rounds of 127 or 147 Gr 9mm RangerTs. Not to get into one shot stops or percentages or anything like that, but by pretty much every commonly accepted source (even those widely discredited) the top loads from 9mm, 357 SIG, 357 Magnum, 40S&W and 45ACP are more effective in actual shootings than 41 Magnum or 44 Magnum.
If you were to use it in a shooting and it went to trial, you would absolutely be painted as a Dirty Harry wannabe. It's happened before.
For someone on anything that resembled a budget, the cost of becoming proficient with a 44 Magnum will be cost prohibitive.
The weight of most 44 Magnums are gonna make most reasonably sized folks walk a little funny unless carried in a shoulder holster.
How the heck do you conceal a 44 Magnum on the beach?
As an aside, I do believe in trying to achieve adequate penetration and I don't buy into CorBon or Triton ultra-super-crazy high velocities at the cost of lacking penetration. And while I've not been a supporter of the 357 SIG movement, I believe that if they could make a 147 Gr bullet similar to the Ranger T load in 9mm but at maybe 150 to 200 fps faster than that load, I think the 357 SIG would be an outstanding load for most any non-woods situation whether that be shooting directly into soft tissue, shooting through drywall or shooting through auto glass or sheet metal.
Now, as to reasons why I wouldn't consider carrying a 44 Magnum:
I've said it before and I'll say it again... Assuming very similar shot placement, I'd MUCH rather take a single round of LSWC or LSWCHP 44 Magnum than three rounds of 127 or 147 Gr 9mm RangerTs. Not to get into one shot stops or percentages or anything like that, but by pretty much every commonly accepted source (even those widely discredited) the top loads from 9mm, 357 SIG, 357 Magnum, 40S&W and 45ACP are more effective in actual shootings than 41 Magnum or 44 Magnum.
If you were to use it in a shooting and it went to trial, you would absolutely be painted as a Dirty Harry wannabe. It's happened before.
For someone on anything that resembled a budget, the cost of becoming proficient with a 44 Magnum will be cost prohibitive.
The weight of most 44 Magnums are gonna make most reasonably sized folks walk a little funny unless carried in a shoulder holster.
How the heck do you conceal a 44 Magnum on the beach?
As an aside, I do believe in trying to achieve adequate penetration and I don't buy into CorBon or Triton ultra-super-crazy high velocities at the cost of lacking penetration. And while I've not been a supporter of the 357 SIG movement, I believe that if they could make a 147 Gr bullet similar to the Ranger T load in 9mm but at maybe 150 to 200 fps faster than that load, I think the 357 SIG would be an outstanding load for most any non-woods situation whether that be shooting directly into soft tissue, shooting through drywall or shooting through auto glass or sheet metal.
*sigh*
I just about settled on picking up a Smith 329PD (.44Remington Magnum) as my primary CCW/Home D choice, when another **Magnum Mania Misinformation** thread rears it's ugly head.
I can't help but think that if so many people here in a gun friendly enviroment have so many misconceptions about the .44Remington Magnum, how in the hell would anyone get a fair shake from the 12 uninformed in the jury box.
I just about settled on picking up a Smith 329PD (.44Remington Magnum) as my primary CCW/Home D choice, when another **Magnum Mania Misinformation** thread rears it's ugly head.
Right on brother cratz2.
I can't help but think that if so many people here in a gun friendly enviroment have so many misconceptions about the .44Remington Magnum, how in the hell would anyone get a fair shake from the 12 uninformed in the jury box.
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