To wheel gun only or not to wheel gun only

[Certaindeaf]

.Who gets the most hits on target in the least amount of time when shooting more than 5-6 rounds..

True but saying that any scenario requires X+ rounds is conjecture.
I'd more say "Who gets the most/best hits on target in the least amount of time.."
Most people can't even shoot.. probably focus on hitting instead of relying upon a high-capacity platform and a lot of rounds downrange.

 

[Archaic Weapon]

It's not about who gets the most hits on target. It's about who gets the most telling hits. No, a revolver is not going to win in a shoot it repeatedly competition because of its lack of ammo capacity. It does, however, serve to put a bullet that you typically need fewer of quite accurately on target.

Was it Wyatt Earp who said something to the effect of," It's not about who shoots first, it's about who hits and means it?" Different type of gun, different type of gunfighting. There is a whole lot of standing there with you nerves screaming at you while you get the drops with accuracy instead of spraying. Different training. It has been pointed out that the tendency to carry more ammo psychologically will make you care less about each shot.

 

[btg3]

True but saying that any scenario requires X+ rounds is conjecture.

Likewise, saying that any scenario requires <X rounds is conjecture.

I'd more say "Who gets the most/best hits on target in the least amount of time.."

If you compare revolvers, to 1911s, to 10+1 shooters in IDPA, the scores improve in that order for the top shooters in each division. If allowed to run full capacity, high capacity scores would improve again. Reloading is a significant drawback to your stated objective.

Most people can't even shoot.. probably focus on hitting instead of relying upon a high-capacity platform and a lot of rounds downrange.

Lemme fix that: Focus on hitting with a high-capacity platform.

One of the skills of defensive shooting is to hit a moving target while you are moving. I agree that most people cannot shoot that well.

 

[CraigC]

If you simply can't shoot anything but a revolver we understand.

Cut the condescension. I practice regularly with revolvers and autos from 0-200yds.

Relying on magazine capacity is like relying on any other inanimate object, its effectiveness is ENTIRELY dependent on whoever is using it. Some obviously choose to rely on capacity because there must be some insecurity in their ability. I rely on the single most important tool at my disposal, my brain. Weapon proficiency, situational awareness, maintaining your calm and using your head are all VASTLY more important than your chosen weapon. It's the software that makes the difference. Fact is, shooters with higher capacity weapons may shoot more but they also miss more.

 

[easyg]

My point is and I believe it could be backed up by most shooters is simple.
Who gets the most hits on target in the least amount of time when shooting more than 5-6 rounds.

I see what you're saying, but I think the reliability of the revolver trumps the capacity of the auto.

The bad thing about the auto is that an otherwise perfectly functioning auto can fail to feed or fail to eject for no good reason, at any given shot.
I've seen it happen way too many times to feel comfortable carrying an auto for self defense.
So, you might have 15+ rounds in your auto, but one failure-to-feed or one failure-to-eject, or a stovepipe, or a dud round, or a hard primer and you might suddenly have a one-shot handgun.

And unless you practice stoppage drills religiously and frequently, you're probably better served with a revolver.
And I can honestly say that I never see folks at the range perform a stoppage drill when they encounter a failure.
It's always Bang! Bang! "nothing"....and they guy stands there and squeezes the trigger again, looks at the pistol in a puzzled manner, slowly removes the magazine, etc....
I never see anyone instinctively and immediate perform a stoppage drill.
If they don't do it instinctively at the range when their weapon fails, they will not do it instinctively in a real life shooting under duress.

Yes, I know that revolvers can jam too.
But not near as often as autoloaders do.
And the vast majority of revolver jams occur when or immediately after reloading.
With a well maintained revolver you are practically guaranteed the first six shots.
With an autoloader, which has a round in the chamber, you are only practically guaranteed one shot.

 

[Kleanbore]

Spend a bit of time in this.

If you do not like semi-autos, one alternative is to carry two revolvers (AKA "New York reload").

 

[btg3]

... I think the reliability of the revolver trumps the capacity of the auto.

Yes, I know that revolvers can jam too.
But not near as often as autoloaders do.

That old saw has been erroneous for a few decades now -- about the time that most LEO went to autoloaders. (Mind you they did not flock to customized 1911s -- but I'd bet my life on a Glock or M&P before the SW and Ruger wheelies that have hung up on me.)

 

[Stress_Test]

I've had inexplicable malfunctions in an auto that really gave me pause. This was in a Glock21.

The first was when shooting Blazer brass ammo. Somehow the next round didn't feed into the chamber and got cocked sideways, jamming the nose of the bullet hard against part of the slide stop mechanism (I think it was...been a while). Racking the slide did nothing, the round wouldn't budge. I couldn't lock the slide back either. I finally managed to rip the magazine out but it took a fair amount of force to do it. Didn't seem to damage anything. Maybe it was ammo related, but I don't know. That one round out of the box was the only one that failed. Imagine how fun that would've been in a gunfight!

Second time, the magazine follower somehow got stuck and wouldn't feed rounds after the first three. Turning the mag upside down in my hand let a few rounds free fall out, then shaking and banging the mag on my palm unstuck the follower. Again, I never found any reason for the glitch.

Stuff like this does not give me a warm fuzzy about autos...

I'll carry an M&P but I definitely feel better when it's backed up by my LCR in my pocket!

I'm a bit of an OCD kind of guy, so I'm starting to get worn out worrying about what ammo works in what magazine with what gun. I'm keeping an eye out for a Ruger GP100 with a 3in barrel.

 

[shafter]

I'm a hardcore revolver guy but I don't feel like I can't own a semi or two. Everyone has got to have a 1911 in the collection and I have a growing fondness for Glock 19's.

And no, I don't feel under gunned with six shots only.

 

[beatledog7]

I really like shooting revolvers, and my EDC is a revolver. I reload, and one of the best things about revolvers is that they have built-in brass catchers.

Revolvers in "magnum" chamberings have the added virtue of being able to shoot companion non-magnum rounds. That's huge in the world of buying and/or reloading ammo and in terms of shooting rounds in a range of power ratings. Most semi's just can't do that as one always has to consider reliable cycling of the action. Revolvers do not rely on cartridge power for that.

They're also just plain cool.

Yet 2/3 of my handguns are semis.

 

[Archaic Weapon]

You know, I find it odd that auto lovers take malfunction drills as a matter of course, but have a problem that revolvers occasionally have the same problem.

 

[peacemaker45]

I don't think that the relevant question is whether a wheel-gun only man feels undergunned, but whether he is. Given the infrequent nature of defensive firearms usage, this is a mistake one might be able to make for a very long time, and it never become obvious. Then again, it may become very obvious, very quickly.

Also, the reload issue isn't debatable at all. I don't care how much you practice, it's gonna take you a lot longer to stuff 18 rounds into your wheelie than into a double column autoloader.

 

[Archaic Weapon]

But it is faster to fire your next shot than go through a malfunctions drill.

I have had the 18 shot argument before, and it always came down to one question for me. Is that counting from loose ammo, or from a speed loader or moonclips? Autoshooters never, never, think about reloads from an empty clip, even when they routinely do not store them together. The argument also always seems to go down the road of carrying revolver ammo, and forgetting that revolvers aren't still Colt Patersons.

 

[easyg]

That old saw has been erroneous for a few decades now -- about the time that most LEO went to autoloaders.

No, there's nothing erroneous about revolvers being more reliable than autoloaders.
It's just the nature of the beast.
Cops didn't switch to autoloaders because autoloaders were just as reliable as revolvers. Cops switched to autoloaders for two reasons:
1) Because of a perception of being "out gunned" by the bad guys.
2) The militarization of our civilian police forces.

Also, the reload issue isn't debatable at all. I don't care how much you practice, it's gonna take you a lot longer to stuff 18 rounds into your wheelie than into a double column autoloader.

Kind of a moot point since most folks don't even carry a reload.

But here's a fun little experiment to try...

Take a revolver shooter and an autoloader shooter; the revolver with an empty cylinder and the autoloader with one empty magazine.
Give them both 50 rounds each.
No loading devices or tools, just their thumbs and fingers.
Blow the whistle and see who can shoot all 50 of their rounds the quickest.



Easy

 

[David E]

But here's a fun little experiment to try...

Take a revolver shooter and an autoloader shooter; the revolver with an empty cylinder and the autoloader with one empty magazine.
Give them both 50 rounds each.
No loading devices or tools, just their thumbs and fingers.
Blow the whistle and see who can shoot all 50 of their rounds the quickest.

You take the revolver, I'll take the semi-auto, both center fire.

I'd beat you easily.

 

[easyg]

You take the revolver, I'll take the semi-auto, both center fire.

I'd beat you easily.

I would be shooting my Ruger GP100.
What auto would you be shooting?

 

[Archaic Weapon]

I think that it is the superiority of the word easily that rankles the most.

 

[jolly roger]

As a rule for the money revolvers are more accurate than the bulk of average service autos not withstanding Les Baer 1911s and the like. One can get very proficient with some practice. Plus in CLOSE contact situations I have seen autos jam if inadvertently placed too near such things as car doors or other hard objects during a gun fight. Both times the guy with the revolver won. Both were criminals but interesting none the less. Gunfights quite often occur in tight close in circumstances and the slide has to go somewhere. Also I have seen entirely too many small autos have feeding issues mainly of the 380 persuasion.

 

[Archaic Weapon]

I have a .45ACP that randomly cycles so fast that it catches the brass halfway through ejecting from the slide, closes tight on it.

 

[MrBorland]

I'd beat you easily.

With one magazine?

 

[Certaindeaf]

Exactly. I remember many decades ago the American Rifleman doing a comparison between a Woodsman and an H&R top-break 999.. see which one can go through fifty rounds the fastest. The 999 won easily.

 

[tarosean]

But here's a fun little experiment to try...

Take a revolver shooter and an autoloader shooter; the revolver with an empty cylinder and the autoloader with one empty magazine.
Give them both 50 rounds each.
No loading devices or tools, just their thumbs and fingers.
Blow the whistle and see who can shoot all 50 of their rounds the quickest.

Quote:
You take the revolver, I'll take the semi-auto, both center fire.

I'd beat you easily.

I would be shooting my Ruger GP100.
What auto would you be shooting?

This "test" can easily be videotaped and uploaded to youtube. Who wants to put their money where their mouth is and prove their side right?

 

[Certaindeaf]

That'd be a fun experiment. My money would be on the revolver.

 

[btg3]

The premise of the test is flawed as would be any conclusion from it. A better test would be under optimal readiness for each gun -- as if you had it ready to use for SD or HD.

I know of no one who has a empty handgun in the night table drawer with 50 loose rounds.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Yea, you usually have a gun loaded and perhaps ammo to hand, perhaps in a pocket or somesuch.