Top Ten Combat Rifles on the Military Ch.

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Roadwild17

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I just watched the top ten combat rifles on the military ch. (the show where to list the different to 10 on different helicopters, subs, etc..). I don't know if this has been discussed, I did a quick search and didn't find anything.

The grading matrix consisted of

Innovation
Handling
Combat Effectiveness
Accuracy
Service Length


No. 10 M-14
No. 9 Sturmgewher 44
No. 8 1903 Springfield
No. 7 Steyr AUG
No. 6 Mouser Model 98K carbine
No. 5 FN FAL
No. 4 M1 Grand
No. 3 Lee Enfield SMLE
No. 2 M-16
No. 1 AK


Just Misses
FAMAS
Mosin Nagant
L85A2
 
Currently I own and shoot 6 of those rifles in Civilian format. The AKM, AR-15, M1 Garand, 98K, Lee Enfield, & 1903.

You'll will find very few people agree with that list for one reason or another. Most people watched the show and you can grab clips of it off of You Tube for each rifle.

You'll find most people don't agree on much anyway.
 
Aug, one of the first bullpups designed, kinda lead the way for the LA85 & famas. The rifle really was ahead of its time.
 
This might be a great idea for a poll. How many of the above rifles do you own.



Ok, posted the poll.
 
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Roadwild17 said:
Aug, one of the first bullpups designed, kinda lead the way for the LA85 & famas
If you say so.

The British EM-2 and the French Famas were developed almost simultaneously in the late '40s. The Steyr AUG wasn't even a twinkle for about 20 more years.

British EM-2
em2ud9.jpg


French Famas
famasf1pw6.jpg


British L85 / SA80
sa80l85a2ml7.jpg


Steyr AUG
augrra2.jpg
 
nalioth, check your link on the French Famas, it says:
Development of this rifle began in 1967

So all of those started roughly the same time, with the L85 being the newest of the bunch.

The EM-2 was experiential, as were a bunch of rifles dating many years before that did not make the grade. So it was a semi-meaningless project, there have been tons of those.
It must be noted that these rifles were not the first ever built in the bullpup layout - I know about al least one bolt action bullpup rifle dated back to post-WW1 period.




So I don't agree with your criticism of Roadwild17. At least from the information in the links you offered.


.
 
Number 7 should have been the G3. IMO, the AUG just wasn't used in enough numbers to belong on that list. Other than that its a pretty good list, I think.
 
the accurate title of the show should be "most effective assault rifles"
in a head-to-head battle, 1v1, i would rather have an M-16, or m-16 type, than an Ak or AK type.
 
Humm.... forgot all about the G3.

Possibly to close to the FAL?

But then again, the SMLE is close to the 1903 if that is the case.... I dont know.
 
i would say that the AUG makes the list based on the first 4 critiria with it's only weakness being the 5th.

i also agree on fact that the G3 should be included. i'd have it replace the M-14, as the M-14 is less inovative than the G3 or FAL and the Garrand is already on the list
 
Acera said:
So I don't agree with your criticism of Roadwild17. At least from the information in the links you offered.
My apologies on the mistated dates.

I need to visit my opthamologist.

Bottom line: the AUG is playing follow-the-leader with the EM-2 and the FAMAS, not leading the way.
 
No. 10 M-14
No. 9 Sturmgewehr 44
No. 8 1903 Springfield
No. 7 Steyr AUG
No. 6 Mauser Model 98K carbine
No. 5 FN FAL
No. 4 M1 Garand
No. 3 Lee Enfield SMLE
No. 2 M-16
No. 1 AK
I'd take out the M-14 because it's just an improved Garand (the Italian Beretta BM-59 shows this very well)

The 1903 Springfield is just an american mauser

not that these weren't good but they're just american centric double entries.

Then I'd put in the SVD Dragunov because of it's influence in the Squad Sniper / Designated Marksman role which has become more common since rather than snipers being apart. It's also a good design that has been copied into the QBZ-95 among others.

Then I'd agree with others, I'm puzzled why the G3 isn't on the list. Certainly an important design.
 
No. 10 M-14
No. 9 Sturmgewher 44
No. 8 1903 Springfield
No. 7 Steyr AUG
No. 6 Mouser Model 98K carbine
No. 5 FN FAL
No. 4 M1 Grand
No. 3 Lee Enfield SMLE
No. 2 M-16
No. 1 AK
Cool. I've got all 10 (or semi-auto clones thereof) except for #7 and #9 cuz they're expensive
 
I liked the American Riflemen TV's Top Ten episode By Mark O'Keffe (senior editor):

1. Mauser 98: It was the bolt-action rifle perfected. Adopted by nearly every nation in the world (save Russia) in one form or another at some time, it was the dominant military rifle for 50 years. It was safe for the shooter, reliable and so widespread. It remains the most important military rifle of the 20th century, and became the basis of the modern sporting rifle as well

2. M1 Garand: It represents American industry and manufacturing at their absolute height. No other nation issued every infantryman a semi-automatic rifle during World War II. Always reliable, accurate enough to dominate at Camp Perry, chambered for the best cartridge of all time, in the context of its time and place in history the M1 stands alone.

3. AK-47: The most reliable, most produced firearm in history. It’s easy to make, easy to shoot and became not only a military rifle but a cultural icon. How many other firearms are on a country’s flag or are a form of currency in the Third World? Designed to defend Mikail Kalashikov’s Motherland, it became much, much more.

4. Lee-Enfield: The best battlefield bolt-action rifle adopted by any nation at any time. Smooth bolt operation, a 10-round magazine capacity, it always worked from Mafeking to Korea. More than 9 million made and a century of service. Enough said.

5. Pattern 1853 Enfield: This was the rifle-musket perfected; the accuracy of a rifle with rapid reloading of the smoothbore musket. Arguably inferior to the Model 1861 Springfield in some respects, it was widely used by British forces all over the world from the Crimean War until the adoption of the Martini-Henry. Used extensively by both sides during the American Civil War, its combat record and service stand alone among rifle-muskets.

6. M16: Eugene Stoners AR-15/M16 rifle was absolutely revolutionary in terms of design and materials when adopted first by the U.S. Air Force, then all the American military. Despite issues with the wrong powder and the bad rap it received in the Vietnam War, it has become an effective and reliable arm for American and other solider around the world. It is the most widely produced arm in American military history.

7. Model 1891 Mosin-Nagant: Adopted by the Imperial Russian Army in 1891 (the sights were originally regulated in “arshins”), it survived the Russian Revolution and became the primary rifle used by the Red Army to defeat the Nazi invaders. In various forms it served well into the Cold War era. Crude and ugly in many ways, it was reliable and effective. How many other rifles could be counted on to work, all the time, in the Siberian Winter?

8. FN-FAL: Adopted by 66 countries in the postwar period, it became the “Free World’s Right Arm” during the dark days of the Cold War. It was the best adaptation of a full-power cartridge in a magazine-fed, selective-fire battle rifle. Useless in selective-fire (like all full power battle rifles), it was the best of a bad concept.

9. Model of 1903 Springfield: Really, the M1903 is a variant of the Mauser, and the U.S. government paid a royalty to Mauser based on its stripper clip patent. Nonetheless, it was an excellent target rifle and a fine bolt-action combat rifle. In my view, it is the most beautiful and well-crafted arm to ever leave a government arsenal anywhere at any time. With the M1903A4 sniper rifle, the ’03 served well into the Korean and the 1950s. It redefined American tastes and brought American military arms into the modern era.

10. Dreyse: The first bolt-action military cartridge gun adopted by a major army. It was several technological leaps ahead of anything else until the American Civil War 20 years later. That technological advantage provided by the Dreyse paved the way for the unification of Germany and the unpleasantness that followed.
 
As for the countdown I'd put the M1 Garand in front of all of them. In its time and place in history it was better than any of its contemporaries, which I think is the ultimate judgment of a combat rifle.
 
Deckard: As for the countdown I'd put the M1 Garand in front of all of them. In its time and place in history it was better than any of its contemporaries, which I think is the ultimate judgment of a combat rifle.


The Garand was an outstanding rifle but, the impact Mauser 98K, Sturmgewher 44 and AK-47 had on small arms around the world is impossible to beat.

I for one don't give this type of "top ten" shows too much attention.
Heck I saw tank top ten show where the Sherman came out as the best tank of ww2. :uhoh:
 
I can agree with everything else in your post, except for this part.

1. Mauser 98: It was the bolt-action rifle perfected. Adopted by nearly every nation in the world (save Russia) in one form or another at some time, it was the dominant military rifle for 50 years. It was safe for the shooter, reliable and so widespread. It remains the most important military rifle of the 20th century, and became the basis of the modern sporting rifle as well

I just don't get the fascination many people have with the K98 Mauser. It was a rifle that was almost always on the losing side of the wars it was used in. It was somewhat slow, had a low capacity magazine, terrible sights and mediocre accuracy. About the only real good things it had going for it were a strong action and a convenient safety.

Now as the basis for a hunting rifle, it would undoubtedly be #1 and it's design was very influential. Personally, I would rate it just ahead of the Mosin Nagant. I feel that the MN has better sights, but it's safety is awful and the forward position of the bolt handle makes it an overall inferior weapon to the K98.
 
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Not that it matters but I agree on the Garand being the most significant battle rifle as it won the biggest war and is the highwater mark in long range accurate firepower. It's like the fuelie 57 Chev Belair of rifles. Anything before is like a flathead, after is like a vw. My call.
 
The Garand was an outstanding rifle but, the impact Mauser 98K, Sturmgewher 44 and AK-47 had on small arms around the world is impossible to beat.

I for one don't give this type of "top ten" shows too much attention.
Heck I saw tank top ten show where the Sherman came out as the best tank of ww2.

i'd also agree that the Garrand had less impact than any of those 3

the Garand being the most significant battle rifle as it won the biggest war

well...that would then support the Sherman as the best tank of the war...not
 
I have to place the AN-94 at the top of any list of today's best. I feel that the Russians have really got it right with that rifle.

As to the Mauser 98, they have got it right for that rifle. No military rifle has had as much influence on the production of rifles in the history of the world.

Peter&Paul got it right!

Remember that Peter&Paul got U.S.A. money for the Springfield? The Winchester Model 54 and the Model 70 used Mauser technology from the Springfield.
 
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