Unarmed Training

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The_Rambler

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Hi, Im Nick, Im 16, and have been hanging around this forum for a little while.

I have a question about my own training. I have been sparring with a friend for 4 or 5 months. He is really high on the Tae Kwon Do ladder, I dont think he is a black belt. I think its a step or two below that. Hes been teaching me, and I have a good fighting background with boxing.

Me and him are about even in our sparring.

My question is should I start a martial art (like karate or something), or am I good to go if get into a fight with someone (like a mugger attacks me or something). Im trying to be prepared.

Thanks

also, post your martial arts or fighting background.
 
Hi Nick,
Welcome to the forum, I started my martial arts training in much the same way at about the same age. I can tell you from experience, don't over do it, get some formal training, and remember, the best defense is NOT to be 'there' when the punch is thrown. ;)
Best,
Rob
 
You're not even close to ready. What you'll find is that the more you know, the more you realize that you need to learn. Knowing a few moves is no match for someone with (a) Enough training to react instinctively and (b) The will and mindset to win at all costs.

The really great ones rarely have to do anything physical.

(2nd Dan Black Belt, Ji Do Kwan)
 
In 2008, you have te more practical option of looking for a quality Mixed MArtial ARts club.... you'll pick up skills there that are more practical than any single martial "art".

Meanwhile, as noted above, try to avoid needing to use those skills!

-RJP
 
The most successful people at using violence in our society don't train at all...they just do it. Prisons are full of them. Ever see a prison shanking? How much skill is there in that? That type of attack is the hardest to train a "counter" for (as in martial arts "knife defenses" won't work) and it requires no skill or training to do. Just pump your arm w/ sharp object in it until they stop twitching.

If you want to survive a violent situation, you have to be the one doing the violence. Injure them until they aren't a threat. It doesn't take skill, a rock to the head will do.
 
Knowing a few moves makes you ready for nothing. Keep in mind the best part of martial arts training is the mental disciplining which can help you avoid a fight. Check out a few dojos in your area and try and figure out what you want to study. Avoid dojos that want a contract and their instructors may be just some guy who looks pretty fit and really only knows a few moves. When you visit dojos if the emphasis is on kicking butt, move on. If being able to kick butt is your only reason for learning martial arts, martial arts isn't for you.
 
Look into Krav Maga


But +1 to everyone who said not to be there when the fight starts. That's the best plan.
 
In short, sparring, boxing, knowing a few moves, sports based martial arts, etc. do not make you ready.

In sparring and boxing you are not learning how to avoid blows, counter strike, etc. A big part is learning how to take a blow. In a real fight going to tie someone up can get you killed.

If you are going to learn a couple basic moves, krav maga or moves based on it are excellent.

While the things I listed above sure are better then nothing, they are not ideal and used just as examples. Knowing how to fight in a ring doesn't mean you know how to fight on the street against an armed opponent.

The other important part is mindset. The best way to win a fight is to not be in a fight. And if you are going to be in a fight, you have to have the mindset that you are going to win.
 
Nick,

No, you're not "ready" for a street encounter. Training in sports martial arts can be beneficial, but don't mistake them for anything other than sports. TKD is first and foremost a sport, like most martial arts. Training with someone your own age who has some MA training and who is on par with you in sparring obviously isn't going to teach you much. Keep in mind that a black "belt" only means you've learned enough to really start learning. Most systems don't consider you marginally ready to teach until you're 3rd black so think about that when sparring with your buddy.

What should you get into? You'll find advocates for a lot of systems and most of them will argue passionately about why MMA/TKD/KM/ETC are the best thing out there. What's best for you is to find a school that doesn't approach it as only a sport and then train hard. Then take some seminars from folks like SouthNarc to get the street applications. Train hard some more.
 
There is great advice being presented here.
:::bows...much respect...:::
You cannot be hurt if you are not there to be hurt.

Your primary concern is not learning complex grappling or flashy moves to show off.
You want to learn to be non-combative and not too proud to evade [read: run from the conflict] but if forced,
effectively eliminate the threat as rapidly and [with no way of saying it kindly] as violently as possible.

Keep in mind, a person who possesses such capabilities also must understand the great responsibility that comes with it.
Very similar to having / using a firearm...use it as a last resort, but never as a warning or to "Scare" somebody.

A well rounded MMA dojo will dabble in boxing, judo, Jiu-Jitsu, muay thai, and more Jiu-Jitsu.
While Jiu-Jitsu skills are great for the ring, not being effective until you hit the ground (outside a ring) will leave you hurt or dead.
Effective muay thai fighters have been involved in training for their entire lives...not something you are going to simply pick up.
Boxing is good, especially if you have good targeting and distancing.
A good boxer can stun an attacker and get away before he knows what's happened but he is also inside the attackers range to be effective.

All that said...and to somewhat counter myself...
If you are willing to dedicate yourself to serious daily MMA training with hardened fighters (not cheap) and actually take hard fights regularly you will learn what's effective and what's not, but it'll cost ya a few shiners :neener:
 
Mental attitude and avoiding confrontation have already been addressed, and I back what others have said. I have limited MA experience - blue belt TKD from my much younger days, and level 1 certification in the MACP (Modern Army Combatives Program). MACP is basically MMA with three goals - close the distance, achieve dominance, finish the fight.

A big part is learning how to take a blow.
Click to expand...
Big time. I can't emphasize this enough. Last Friday my PLT trained with strikes - open handed to the face, closed fist to the body as hard as you wanted in addition to the other various MACP techniques. Being able to deliver and take an effective strike changes things immensely; particularly being able to take a blow if the system you choose to use is geared towards tighter contact distances. Under these rules, the guys that tended to do the best were the ones that had childhoods rougher than average with more streetfighting experience than your average Joe. Sure, there's something to be said for the guy that wrestled through high school and college (or has a similar amount of time in karate, TKD, etc) and is built like an ox, but if he's never taken a serious shot to the kidneys or the nose, look for him to lose.

It should be noted, however, that most MMA/grappling fights will NOT be ended with strikes. But, strikes can trigger a natural reaction from an opponent, opening up an opportunity to finish the fight some other way.
 
Theres not a whole lot I can do Martial arts wise around here. I cant really afford it anyway, sadly.

Im pretty much doing the poor mans training, and making the best of it.

I suppose I could learn some moves from other martial arts....
 
You'll find that most people here on THR use Martial Arts more or less as an adjunct to other forms of self-defense - namely carrying a gun.

I believe that it is good to have a background in some form of Martial Arts. Some styles may be better than others in a given situation.
I myself have a strong base in Shotokan Karate, but have also dabbled a bit in Aikido and Systema.
Try sparring with someone who is proficient in Judo or Aikido and you might find that your TKD skills lack the "close-in" work that these styles favor.

Also, a style that focuses on weapons, such as Ninjitsu, would also be beneficial, because then you learn how to handle a stick or baton, and also a knife.

About the best rule I have ever run across in fighting is the Space/Time rule: If you don't want to get hurt, then make sure that your face is not occupying the same space, at the same time, as your opponent's fist.
This is where the Aikido training was fun, because you learn ways to redirect your opponent's blows.

Some people say that a more realistic, "real-world", fighting style such as Krav Maga or Systema is more appropriate to street fighting than other styles, but this is something you will have to figure out on your own.

Other forms of self-defense instead of hand-to-hand include: pepper spray; batons, such as the ASP collapsible baton, or a cane; knives; and striking instruments, such as flashlights.
In addition to being a striking instrument, a flashlight can be used to momentarily blind someone while you high-tail your butt outta there - you also have got to learn when to run away, so that you can live to fight another day.

Also, don't forget the often overlooked Verbal-Judo - learn how to talk your way out of a fight; I don't wish to insult your youth by saying this, so please don't take it that way, but you also need to learn how to walk away from a fight.

Since you are 16, you won't be getting a CCW anytime soon, it's most likely illegal for you to carry pepper spray, a knife, or a baton, and you're too young for a cane - so look into purchasing a small, sturdy, aluminum-bodied flashlight (like a Surefire) and learn how to use it in a self-defensive fashion - it's a lot better than punching someone with your fists and it's legal for a 16 year old to carry, too.
 
I'm around your age (18) and have a background in martial arts. I'd say, even knowing what I do, even if I were armed, I'd still rather not stick around for a fight. I did a military-type martial art, and I'm still afraid of being attacked by 3-4 people.

The best choice is not to beat the hell out of your mugger unless the opportunity presents itself. If the opportunity does present itself, he's probably not even a threat. And if you hurt or kill someone, your ass is grass (typically). You'll be in legal hell for a very long time.

Pick your battles wisely. Don't fight anyone who doesn't absolutely have to be fought. If a mugger doesn't have a gun or a knife, he's probably not a real serious threat (but don't let your guard down). If he does, just give him your wallet. If you think he wants more...that's when you open up.

Unarmed combat is ugly. Ugly, ugly, UGLY as hell. Avoid violence.

That's what I believe, anyway.
 
Theres not a whole lot I can do Martial arts wise around here. I cant really afford it anyway, sadly.

Im pretty much doing the poor mans training, and making the best of it.

I suppose I could learn some moves from other martial arts....
Click to expand...

In your circumstances, just keep doing what you do! Work out for fitness and cardio. Do plenty of good, basic boxing stuff. Keep it simple.

Spar with gloves and mouth guards and go for pretty good contact. Train to get a good combo going to make space to break contact and retreat. As to "moves", you've got all the needed "moves" in boxing. Just keep moving! Bobbing, weaving, fainting, quick on your feet to circle'em...

And first and foremost, stay out of trouble! There can be no encounter if you're not taking part. Trust me, that's the way to go.
 
Hi, Nick, I think the best advice is look for the instructor and not the style. Lots of good stuff out there. Start looking at different classes.

If you are anxious about "being ready" then I would seek a school that focuses on sparring/fighting. For this, it is hard to beat BJJ or Judo. Both styles focus (especially BJJ) on randori (sparring). It is safe and effective qin na. Good instructors will start you out slow and let you build into it. It will give you confidence so that you do not have to fight.:)

As I know from my years studying in qin na (and other CMA techniques) that technique is brought "alive" only by live action training. Remember, it is how much time and effort you put into it (kung fu=skill via time and effort). The Gracies and Machados were so effective because they continually trained, up to 12 hours a day at Judge Machado's mountain home. That is why their qin na rocks.

Why not stick with boxing? Nothing wrong with Western boxing.

I have studied several different arts (Hapkido, FMA), but have practiced Wing Chun and Praying Mantis boxing for a long time now.

Here's me at a qin na seminar with Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming (I'm in the front row wearing the black shirt and shorts in front of Dr. Yang): http://www.kung-fu.addr.com/Photos/indy-in-2006-1.html

Nick, where do you live? Perhaps we can help you find a school?
 
aikido and jujitso are good,might try hopkido as well,close to aikido but more aggressive,good idea to stay out of situtations that will put in harms way,but if it happens remember most fights end up on the groundlearning some good all purpose chokes will help
 
Boxing is excellent for offense and defense stand-up technique, though you may miss out on kicks, knees, and elbows, unless you get more of a muay thai or kickboxing twist. You don't have to be a black belt in jiu jitsu or judo, but you need some ground skills, even if just to learn how to escape. Many fights end with guys rolling around on the ground, and all the punching power in the world is useless if you get taken to the ground and your opponent knows how to use this to his (or her...) advantage and you don't. You don't have to be an expert triangler, but you need to know how to get someone off of you, again if for no other reason than to escape. Anyone who saw the recent Kimbo Slice fight on EliteXC clearly saw what happens when a powerful street fighter (i.e. a wild power puncher) gets put on his back. Kimbo has no ground skills and the guy he fought had only marginally better ground skills, but Kimbo was easily taken down and was dominated much of the fight by not knowing how to fight from his back or how to get the guy off him. But I digress... Anyway, you may not want to go to the ground, but if you don't know what to do when you find yourself there, then you might be in really big trouble. So, again you don't need to be an expert, but do something to develop some basic ground skills.
 
When I went through basic training MANY years ago, the SD they taught us was a bad joke. Rolling around in the sawdust with a couple of throws. I walked away thinking, "Wow. That's IT?! If I go to war with that stuff I will DIE!"

The army has switched to a very few rolls and holds, that come mostly from Gracie Jiu-jitsu. It works regardless of size, and it's much easier to repitiously train many people with a few fundamental moves than a complicated art that takes years to learn effectively.

Remember, a lot of the arts train as if your opponent is using the same moves and same rules that YOU are. Real life doesn't work like that. I very loudly second the idea of looking for a MMA studio.

And for me, in life as well as at war, hand to hand is to get someone into a position to finish the job as quickly as possible, not to be cool, or prove you can win a drawn-out fight.
 
having been in TKD for many years since my childhood. this martial art like many is basically punching and kicking on a technical level. rarely does anyone teach about all the target areas. i had to reexamine all my knowledge on target areas on my own. it's good to learn the proper or most powerful techniques for kicking or punching. you will come to a point where going to class is just to stay in shape or have a sparring partner. take classes for a while but don't spend half your life going around and around in circles. fighting isn't just kicking and punching. i wouldn't place a bet that i can out punch or kick someone to the ground. so i practice kicking and punching a little everyday, but i concentrate on vulnerable areas. awareness, know when you are in striking distance. someone has tried to sucker punch me three times in a row. the TKD helped me indirectly. i was trained to block. but my sparring experience trained me to successfully dodge backward from the punch. instinctively, i saw the punch coming in my peripheral and automatically leaned back three times. if i had not any TKD experience, i would have had a black eye.
 
Anyone who saw the recent Kimbo Slice fight on EliteXC clearly saw what happens when a powerful street fighter (i.e. a wild power puncher) gets put on his back. Kimbo has no ground skills and the guy he fought had only marginally better ground skills, but Kimbo was easily taken down and was dominated much of the fight by not knowing how to fight from his back or how to get the guy off him. But I digress...
Click to expand...

Kimbo held his own considering he GASSED OUT.
His ground work was pretty good considering that he had NO prior experience on the ground...he never needed it before, he was a mean arse street fighter. He needs to thank BAS!
That fight is a great example of the critical need for cardio training.
You gas, you slow down, you get hurt.
Kimbo got a few breaks, back to his feet and landed a couple great shots that won it for him, but if there had been a much more seasoned opponent, kimbo would have been done on the ground.

All that said...urban environments provide many means of egress, use them and get the hell out of there.
 
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Krav maga

i believe the advantage of NOT being in a fight is greatly emphasized


just look on youtube to see some stuff, sure its nothing like trying it out, but it should give a picture
 
A fight in the real world isn't even like a UFC fight. Its not just about using your body, its about using the tools around you as well.
 
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