Unarmed Training

[Girodin]

I still think it is better to start with any and build a foundation of knowledge from which you can then begin to compare & then add/subtract from. This is better than jumping schools every 3 months and only getting confused by different philosophies of teaching.

I agree completely. I personaly believe that building a base in one discipline is advantagous before adding new stuff. The best mma fighters have a strong base in one style yet are very well rounded.

Certain arts are inheriently better in my humble (but educated opinion). It only makes sense to start with one of those. I trained, trained with, and fought practioners of many arts. That experience combined

My experience in training fighters is that grappling arts and striking arts are sufficiently different that many people can train in one of each at the same time. I still favor getting established in one first. Time and money become an issue as well. If you split your time you wont get as good at either, but may be a more well rounded fighter over all.

As for Muay Thai, I learned the effectiveness of elbows when I had my forehead split open by a practitioner in Thailand.

The below pic is a cut I got from an elbow in a muay thai match.

Ive been in a few scraps, And that boxing training came in handy, So thats what I will work on. I cant afford anything else.

Boxing is great, stick with it. It is better for fighting than most other martial arts imo. For a kid still in high shcool joining the wrestling team is a good option. P4P I would put my money on a good varsity wrestler in a fight agaisnt a karate, TKD, etc, black belt. Some wrestling skills will allow you to keep a fight on your feet where you can utilize your boxing. Boxing training can be inexpensive but unless you're fighting and have romise you may get ignored some what. Train for and take some fights and you will greatly improve your boxing. Muay Thai often isn't too expensive. BJJ typicaly is a bit pricey.

Add to that wrestling some boxing or muay thai and you have some one who can scrap fairly well.

The street is a world of its own. If you want to learn to survive on the street, you need to find a streetfighter to learn from IMHO.

Here is a guy I had the great pleasure to train with. His street fights are legendary. He also trained one of my friends who was a pro fighter (UFC, IVC, Pride etc).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3K-mrlYG7Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=related&v=hiEeNwZF4ws

The street has significant differences (weapons, peoples friends, etc) from the ring but a guy with dozens of boxing matches, mma fights or the like has a marked advantage there. Fight training for sport will pay huge dividends in a street fight and much of the skills and mentality transfers. I fight very differently in a street fight than one in the ring but but I use my training for the latter to great effect.

John Marsh who fought in the UFC was challenged to a fight by a Kung Fu guy. THe challanger complained that MMA rules were to limiting and that if eye gouges, groin strikes, preasure point strikes fish hooking and the like were allowed then it would really change things. Marsh agreed to fight him with no rules. Marsh destroyed the guy taking him and quickly submitting him with a kimura and injuring the guy. With out some basic skills eye gouges etc wont get you far. You'll be done before you get a chance to even think about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_taQXTem_X4

The thing about the street is that you dont want to voluntarily grapple IMO due to the possibilty of some one else kicking your head in, getting stabbed or the like. That said you may still find your self there and you need to know what to do. Being real good at some simple basics will go along ways. Royce Gracie used to say "the ground is an ocean, I'm a shark, and you dont even know how to swim."

 

[RONSTAR]

Virtually anyone I've trained with could have eaten well-practiced Army combatives users' lunch.

They ate there lunch, why? I think that just makes them bullies.:banghead:

 

[DarkSoldier]

Just a thought.. other posters may have mentioned it. Always be aware of the things around you that you can use as a weapon. Your daily environment is full of them. As soon as you enter a new environment, identify any objects that can potentially serve as a weapon. And remember, these same everyday items can be used against you.

Just my thoughts, not instruction or advice.

Respectfullly,

DarkSoldier

 

[strambo]

John Marsh who fought in the UFC was challenged to a fight by a Kung Fu guy. THe challanger complained that MMA rules were to limiting and that if eye gouges, groin strikes, preasure point strikes fish hooking and the like were allowed then it would really change things. Marsh agreed to fight him with no rules.

When 2 people agree to a challenge there are always rules. First rule, it was a 1 on 1 duel. Second rule: no weapons. 3rd rule: assumption you will not be murdered (i.e. the other guy goes to prison for the rest of his life to prove a point).

There is no way to ever "prove" who or what style is superior for actual combat other than doing it in true hostile situations/environments (someone goes to ICU or morgue at the end) enough times to get enough empirical data to study.

So long as there is any restraint (1 vs 1, morality, laws, lack of weapons) it is an artificial environment where the best skillset suited to that environment will be superior.

When a soldier in Iraq faced off against an insurgent on a rooftop and yanked the AK away (then didn't beat him to death with it), then went to a clinch and did some knees and elbows, then the insurgent got away and almost grabbed the AK again, then he clinched him up, then one of the soldier's buddies finaly arrived to shoot him...it wasn't nearly the most effective or optimized use of vbiolence in that situation. It was sport fighting (Army Combatives) mis-applied to combat. Thankfully, our soldier survived. Had the insurgent had a buddy up there, our soldier wouldn't have survived. Had it been round 1 in UFC, our soldier would have been way ahead on points.

The goal in a violent situation should only be to injure the other guy(s) until they cannot function (pose a threat) by any (ideally, the most efficient) means necessary. That most efficient means could be a rock to the back of the head, a crushed throat, a busted knee followed by stomping the skull until it spilts apart. The goal of any martial art is only to teach you that martial art...all else is secondary. The goal of sport fighting (Boxing, wrestling, MMA) is to teach you how to succeed in a competition under a specific rule set.

There is a lot of carryover from traditional martial arts and sport fighting into the arena of violence....and a lot that doesn't. Surviving doesn't prove effectiveness or viability (and that works both ways, I think my training is geared towards realistic surivival in a violent situation, but me srviving a confrontation won't "prove" my training was the "best" or most effective).

If you are going to use something as a base to build on, and surviving violence is your goal, it makes sense to have that base system be one that shares your goal as primary (surviving violence). So, that leaves the "Reality Based" systems. Examples are: Krav Maga, SPEAR -Tony Blauer, RMCAT-Petyon Quinn, Reality Based-Jim Wagner, Target Focus Training, Southnarc and others.

The downside, is with the exception of Krav Maga, you won't find the above systems/istructors in your home town. You gotta travel to seminars, then find people in your area to train with.

The upside is the training is directly geared towards the goal of surviving a violent situation. Also, it doesn't take years at a dojo to get good at using violence. Criminals are great at it with no training. The few who train at all usually get that training in prison...after being put away for a long time for doing something very violent.

 

[coloradokevin]

I haven't read all of the other replies, but here's my $0.02:

Many martial art skills don't transfer well to street fighting. I'm not saying that they are completely without merit, but I've also seen a lot of guys who were quite accomplished in a given art, yet totally unprepared for an all-out street fight.

You should probably seek some professional instruction in Mixed Martial Arts, focusing on real-life scenarios. Nothing is choreographed in a street fight, and rules don't exist like they do in a dojo.

Quite honestly, most folks aren't completely mentally prepared for the violence a street fight until they have some fight time under their belts. Some things just take experience to learn (although, ironically enough, this is the sort of experience that you also want to avoid).

Nevertheless, you may benefit from Krav training, Jiu Jitsu, and Mixed Martial Arts training.

To give you an idea, my department trains in a combination of Krav Maga, Jiu Jitsu, and other mixed techniques... Many police departments are going this direction, simply because real fights are not scripted!

Given your age, you may also look into your high school's wrestling team. Those skills aren't the final word in fighting, but I've seen some great wrestlers perform very well in real fights over the years!

Since you asked: My formal training cosists of some Krav experience, both at work and beyond, and I've had some basic grappling instruction here and there. Years ago I trained briefly in Kung Fu.

Honestly, what really counts (for me) isn't the experience that I've had inside of a gym. It is the experiences I've had fighting as a street cop in the ghetto... Squaring off with a 200 lb crack head in an alley at 2am will teach you more than you care to know about yourself. Our fights must be won, and mindset is 90% of the battle.

 

[The_Rambler]

Hm, I have been thinking about wrestling. My best friend came in second in state, Im gonna get him in on this training.

Thanks guys. That should cover ground. Boxing has got me while im standing.

 

[gripper]

Welcome to the world of applied physical conditioning and self defense....now get ready for it to be a lifelong trip,because the day you stop learning the journey is over.

 

[Geno]

Rambler:

My professional opinion, as a licensed instructor of multiple martial arts (TKD 24 years & Judo 28 years), is that contemporay martial arts about living a balanced, active and healthy life. The arts are no longer about brutal and merciless breaking of bones.

On the comical side, I have had the serious displeasure of several wanna-be-students enter my former TKD school, and claim to be Ninja and asked that I honor their "black belt". I simply smiled and offered that if they could take my Black Belt off of me in an unrestricted bout, that they could attend my school for free and could wear that belt. Odd, none of these self-acclaimed Ninja ever offered to reroll. I always assumed that it was because my Black Belt is so very old, extremely dull, worn, torn and ladden with decades of sweat and even others' blood. It isn't a nice, bright black, factory fresh belt. Genuine Black Belts know what that means. There are a lot of posers in the martial arts world.

That said, the belt color ranks (where legitimate) do continue to represent accurately one's ability. Anything less than 1st degree decided Black belt is woefully insufficient for self-defense. Too, there is an extraordinary competence disparity between 1-D Black belt, and 1-D Degree Black Belt/Licensed instructor.

My advice is this: Enjoy learning your chosen martial art, and enjoy learning to live a balanced, non-violent life.

Doc2005
(48 years old; 41 years in Martial Arts)

1) Chang Hun TaeKwonDo,
Former Asst Nat'l Dir. (2 years)
Licensed Instructor 24 years

2) Sohgn Ahm TaeKwonDo,
Licensed Instructor 24 years

3) Kodokan Judo,
Licensed Instructor 28 years

4) KukSool Won,
Lowly Blue Belt Student

Note that no where in this post, nor in any other post have I ever, or will I ever disclose my rank. My friend, it is not about bragging on one's rank. The contemporary arts are about living a good life, which includes no BOASTING of one rank, nor feeling the need to do so. I earned my living as a professional martial artist for years; that is enough said. It bares repeating:

My advice is this: Enjoy learning your chosen martial art, and enjoy learning to live a balanced, non-violent life.

Doc

 

[Girodin]

There is no way to ever "prove" who or what style is superior for actual combat other than doing it in true hostile situations/environments (someone goes to ICU or morgue at the end) enough times to get enough empirical data to study.

Many such fights took place in the late 80s and early 90s particularly in brazil. Yes there was an agreement that there would not be weapons but given that was the point being tested that is to be expected. Beyond no weapons and the fight being one on one there were no rules. In one infamous fight Ryan Gracie bit a guys ear off.

The street has serious difference that have been mentioned the most significant of which are the possiblity of multiple attackers and/or weapons. There are many other things that differeniate a street fight from a sport fight as well.

The way you learn to fight is the same way you learn to do anything else. You must practice actually doing it. That said it is not pragmatic to go get in a bunch of street fights to learn how to fight. Nor is it wise to train all the time with people trying to eye gouge you bite you etc. That said one still needs to prepare for such eventualities the best they can.

There are a lot of posers in the martial arts world.

Very true and I would be vary warry of anyone claiming to have the secrets to unbeatable fighting.

Not everything I have learned from wrestling, BJJ, or muay thai is directily applicable to the street.

The following (in no particualr order) is however:

1. How to react to getting punched. Proper reaction to getting hit, particularly getting hit hard is not intuative at all. You learn it through practice and by getting hit hard a lot. A related point is how to keep fighting despite being tired and/or hurt. I fought a kickboxing fight with a broken hand. Finished a wrestling match after blowing my knee. I;ve fought after being hurt badly. In short I've learned how to tough it out. Many fights are lost when one person breaks mentally.

2. How to remain calm. This is somewhat related to the above but not entirely. Having the oppotunity to fight people that are trying their hardest to hurt you teaches you to not freak out when that happens.

3. Physical conditioning. I am confident in my ability to fight full out for more than 30 second something most people cannot do. Being able to fight harder and longer than someone else is one of the most important things to winning a fight.

4. How to punch properly. I know I can knock people out with my punches because I have done it. I know how to throw punches inoder to make them land and do so with power. I know how to protect my self from counters while doing so.

5. Deffense, reaction, movement.
I have learnned to see punches and the like that are coming at me. Learning to see shots coming is actually much harder than it sounds. I've learned different tactics for blocking or evading them. I've learned to not close my eyes when a punch is coming. I've learned to not turn away or duck and cower which is the intuative reaction.

6. Increased strength, agility, speed and balance

7. A lot of techiniques I find very aplicable to street fights. This point could be pages so I wont elaberate.

If you are going to use something as a base to build on, and surviving violence is your goal, it makes sense to have that base system be one that shares your goal as primary (surviving violence). So, that leaves the "Reality Based" systems. Examples are: Krav Maga, SPEAR -Tony Blauer, RMCAT-Petyon Quinn, Reality Based-Jim Wagner, Target Focus Training, Southnarc and others.

I am not familar with all of the above but a I am familar with some of them and others that are not mentioned.

The local Krav Maga instructor here actually train thai boxing with me and i have trained with some of their students.

I will say the short comming of many of the above is that the people doing them aren't really fighting. No one is punching them in the face as hard as they can. They aren't being pushed physicaly to the point of throwing up, etc. Yes there are good techniques but fighting is much more than that and anyone who has been in a couple fights knows it.

There is no magic bullet for street fighting. The best thing is to have a broad range of skills. Doing so takes time and often money and thus priorities and decision about how and where to commence need to be made.

I will say that personaly I tend to believe that if I cannot walk away from it then it is likely to require greater force than a right cross left hook combo (or the like). I do like being prepaired for defense at all levels however.

One thing to consider as we discuss ak wielding jihadist scenerios is that the OP is a 16 year old and advice was directed towards him and his situation. There is a difference between the possible and probable and it is good to keep it in mind when making decisions about how to prepare for many things self defense amongst them.

 

[Girodin]

It is also worth noting that one can come up with scenerios for which any type or level of training will be insufficient.

The goal ought to be to prepare the best you can for as many scenerios as possible but particularly those that are probable and that you have a likely hood of being able to succesfully deal with.

IE it makes more sense to me to train for one guy taking a swing at me than to attempt to train to fight 20 baseball bat wielding thugs. The former I can possibly deal with the latter I'm running as fast as I can (again conditioning is important) and if that fails I'm screwed if I am unarmed and quite possibly even if I am armed.

Further I have had guys take a swing at me on a number of occasions. I have never encountered 20 assailants armed with bats.

 

[strambo]

An AK wielding jihadist trying to kill you has far more in common with an armed gang banger in an alley trying to kill you than any brutal "street fights" in Brazil or a ruckus in a local bar.

There is nothing far fetched about criminal violence...facing someone who simply wants to destroy you and doesn't care about winning a fight or trying to best you in a even remotely fair contest. Training for any "fight" where it is one on one, no weapons and the stated goal isn't to destroy someone (murder them, kill or cripple them) but simply win is different.

Sure, in a fight someone may get permanently injured accidentally or even killed. This is rare and accidental. In violence that is the goal from the outset and once someone gets injured that is the starting point. They really pile it on once the victim is disabled. In order to survive violence, you need to be the one doing the injuring.

Assuming a "Reality Based" practitioner can't take a punch (hasn't been exposed to hard training/contact) is as bad a mistake as assuming a traditional martial artist or sport fighter can't handle a violent situation because they don't train specifically for that. There is carryover each way, it is more a question of efficiency and picking the one that best prepares you to handle what your goals are.

Why spend years learning to be a good martial artist or sport fighter when all you want is to be able to survive a hostile situation?

Why spend time and money training in a reality based system when all you want is a black belt or to compete or to win street fights?

The biggest mistake I think people make is to not clearly define for themselves the end state they desire out of training then finding a system that shares the same goal. Doing this will avoid the problem of a sport fighter thinking they can handle any violent situation and the problem with a reality based person thinking they can compete in the UFC or win a barfight without going to prison due to the unsuitability of their knowledge base to a low grade assault scenario.

 

[Geno]

strambo asked:

Why spend time and money training in a reality based system when all you want is a black belt or to compete or to win street fights?

Well posed, and well-thought-out question.

Doc2005

 

[Girodin]

An AK wielding jihadist trying to kill you has far more in common with an armed gang banger in an alley trying to kill you than any brutal "street fights" in Brazil or a ruckus in a local bar.

One commonality is that they are both times I would rather be using my firearm, or my emerson. Another is that they are both times that trying to fight that person with out a weaopn has a very good chance of getting you killed irrespective of what you have or haven't trained in. I have done some knife training and in many of the drills and simulations the unarmed person ends up getting "cut" up good. I think it comes back to having the most broad skill set that you can. That means different things for different people given their differing physical abilities and attributes, differing access to quality training, differing time availability to train, etc No one approach covers it all. Not weapons training. Not so called reality based systems. Not boxing. Not BJJ. Not anything.

Assuming a "Reality Based" practitioner can't take a punch (hasn't been exposed to hard training/contact) is as bad a mistake as assuming a traditional martial artist or sport fighter can't handle a violent situation because they don't train specifically for that.

I don't make assumptions about the skills or abilities of anyone. I simply commented on some of the training I have personaly seen and as you can read in my previous post I clearly noted that I have not seen it all, not even close. I am not totally ignorant either though. I certainly never dismissed it all. Tony Blauer is fairly well respected in the MMA community for a reason. He even had his own sub forum on the underground (the MMA website for many years) back in the day where I was abke to discuss with him some of the same issues that we are discussing. Some other instructors and "systems" are laughable IMHO.

The biggest mistake I think people make is to not clearly define for themselves the end state they desire out of training then finding a system that shares the same goal.

I think we agree on that point. I would also add that one needs to chose training that not only professes to share their goals but can atually get them there. Sadly many people dont have the knowledge base to properly make such a decision. There are a lot of swindlers out there that may seem appealing to the uninformed. Jus look at how many programs are the "best" "ultimate" etc and claim they are the end all be all of self defense. The fact is these guys are in business and there is tons of BS out there. Even many legite things are misrepresented IMHO.

I'm glad you are comfortable with your training and I hope it gets you the results you are after and that you never need to use it.

I am also very comfortable with my training (I also greatly enjoy it). In my younger and crazier days I've had the chance to be in some scraps. I've been in situations with weapons. I've been stabed. I'm not just talking out my arse when it comes to fighting. That said, heaven knows I dont know it all, and I would RUN from anyone that claims they do. In fact I enjoy and endevor to continuely learn more. I readily agree that my aproach to a fight may not be the best for you or some one else. I'm confident to put a punch on some ones chin because I have KOed guys on multiple occasion doing so. I know if it lands flush there is a good chance the person is taking a nap bare minimum they wont think a fly landed on them). Some people simply dont have KO power and never will. Thus a punch to the chin is not nearly as good a tactic for them. Individuals are a variable that is probably as important as "style"

I will say once a person is KOed I have never felt the need to cruch their throat, etc, or kill them, there was no more threat and thus absolutely no need. I have felt the need to follow up with a stomp to the head of some one on the ground before to asure they weren't getting up. As you are aware using force beyond what it takes to stop a threat will land one in prison where you may need throat crushing tactics in the shower. That said deadly force may be in order and certain times. Thank God I've never found myself in such where someone was killed.

I stand by my recomendations to the 16 year old OP for several reasons. Some of them have little to do with the tactics of fighting. It will be easier for a 16 yr old in anytown USA (I dont know where he is located) to find a boxing coah and a wrestling team that is for real than a reality based instuctor. I live in a decent sized town and there is one Krav maga program (which doesn't wow me). What one learns in a any one seminar (i've attended multiple such seminars of various instrutors) is limited particularly when one lacks the ability to follow it up with supervised training and practice. Roman wasn't built in a day and neither are fighting skills. They do RMCAT training at my gym. In fact my friend is on their home page. It has some cool elements and things I rahter like but I'm not in awe of it by any means. Many of people who do one corse or one seminar are only ever so slightly better able to defend themselves if that. I'm also fairly certain I would kick the tar out not only most of the students but the instructor there as well in a fight to the death. I may be wrong but I doubt that most of them would despute that after all we are friends and have had the opportunity to train together regularly. I will say it is good fun being the guy in suit though. I'd much rather fight a guy who has attended one seminar of any instructor that a guy who wrestled through high school and boxed 4 days a week in the off season, but thats just me. The cost of a boxing gym and joining the wrestling team is likely to be more in line with what a teenager can afford, something the OP brought up. Although 16 year olds certainly can be the victims of violent crime and can find themselves in life or death situations most of my teenage confrontation were more adeqautely dealt with by a jab cross hook than eye gouging, throat crushing testicle chewing tactics, not that those are not good to know too although given the nature of society today one need to be fairly careful about the times they deploy them. In my experience a lot of teenagers who learn to fight and are regularly sparing in the gym etc find themselves getting in fewer street altercation.

I may be out in left field but just some of the reasons (out side the realm of tactics) that I made the suggestions I did. It is difficult (at least for some one like me) to fully articulate many of the nuanced points of such a topic on a forum like this. It would really take a carefully written book to adress some of these issues properly and evaluate them from all sides. I think we probably agree on more than we disagree about strambo, but perhaps not. Just my ramblings for what ever they are worth.

 

[Girodin]

I just saw that the target focus training that was recomended has a video of Matt Fury of all people endorsing it on their website.

I would flee from anything or anyone associated with Matt Fury. The guy is a known con man and BS artist. The guy is a joke to anyone who knows anything at all about him. He has made so many BS claims through out his "career" that he has ZERO credability.

I haven't seen their stuff but if the guy is inviting Fury to demostrate stuff for him and Fury is his choice for a testimonial I would venture to guess that it is BS to the nth degree.

BTW people telling you they are the only ones with knowledge are more than likely full of you know what.

A good website for those interested in the veracity of various claims made by certain figures in the fighting/martial arts community is www.bullshido.com

 

[Geno]

One can not learn the arts to any competent degree with a video, can they?! Such offers are purely money-makers.

<<Doc ponders: hmmm...maybe I can offer a Black Belt by internet>>

 

[Glock Glockler]

One can not learn the arts to any competent degree with a video, can they?!

Why not?

 

[Geno]

An individual cannot advance from white belt through Black Belt via a video program, because there is nobody standing there observing their technique, their timing, and helping them to correct. This problem exists from the very basics of stances, to individual techniques up and down the floors, to forms, and all of these constitute the very base of the art. If any of these is flawed, so too is the entire process. Too, with whom does the video "student" practice and correct the one-steps, which are the prelude to sparring. For the life of me, I cannot envision how anyone could develop sparring techniques with a video. I dare say that if the student drops his or her guard in sparring, the video will not strike them. Bruce Lee would probably say, “Videos don’t hit back.”

There is far more to the martial arts than simply putting a sequence of movements to memory, then making the movements. There is a tremendous amount of physical art, scientific theory and near endless social skill development to TaeKwonDo, as well other arts. These cannot be taught by, nor practiced via video. But then, there are institutions all over the world that would sell one a doctoral degree for a few dollars, and there are equally scrupulous individuals who would do the same regarding "black belts".

We instructor actually ordered some of these "mail order" systems and sat down to assess them with our organization's National Directors during Instructors’ Camp. We all had a rather shocking experience as we sat there drinking in what some deceptive person marketed to people as making them "proficient". How many people must have been injured as the result of such deception?

Let me ask you this: You fall, strike your head and need a neurosurgery. Do you want a Board Certified Neurosurgeon, or do you want a paper mill surgeon who never actually attended medical school? The martial arts really are no different.

Doc2005

 

[strambo]

A note on "video" training. It would be very difficult to learn a martial art by video. However, it isn't so hard to learn some efficient survival techniques via video provided; a) they are simple, easy to understand and don't require lots of coordination and b) you have another person to practice with.

Just to reign this back to reality and put some perspective on things. Well over 90% of the population doesn't do any sort of training at all, martial arts or otherwise. Of the very small portion who do, the largest demographic is kids in traditional arts. Of the adults left...that is probably well under 3% of the population that is involved in a traditional art, a combat sport or reality based training.

So, on the streets the vast majority of people out there doing violence both criminal and intended victim (who successfully defend themselves) have no training at all. There was a nurse who strangled a hitman to death here in OR a few years ago...I doubt she had any training and she was obese to boot (so much for needing to be in shape). I heard a few weeks ago about a man who disarmed a home invader and beat his head with the pistol, I doubt he had any training either (odds are against it and there was no mention.)

Bottom line, all you need to be successful at using violence is a human body (say 100 lbs or more), the knowledge that you can injure someone (don't need any training or tools) and the willingness to do it. Criminals do it all the time, they just walk up and start injuring people.

The only thing a martial art, combat sport or reality based system can do is improve your efficiency using violence thereby increasing your odds of survival. How effective the training is depends on how realistically it prepares you to injure other humans in a chaotic violent situation. But you don't need anything. Just do it. Any training is just a bonus.

There are stories of regular folks with no training successfully protecting themselves against violent criminals all the time. In light of that, all the argument about this system vs that system is kinda silly since well over 90% of the population (to include the criminals) doesn't do anything. Decide if it is something you want to spend time and $$ on, decide why you want to do it, then decide on what to train, if anything.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

i try to remember that a good run beats a bad stand.
i also have struggled with disassociating myself from my ego. at least 1/2 the fights i've been in were clearly avoidable in retrospect.

nick one thing you have going for you early on is the sttitude of wanting to learn and asking. it will open many doors. you are to be commended for that.

 

[Howaido]

Join the wrestling team and take any opp to practice.

 

[gripper]

I gotta concur RE the wrestling team. I am not a wrestler;but I have a lot of respect for the freestyle guys(catch wrestling,submission).They are used to constantly changing up the angles,fighting in 3d;and are usually ( the serious ones ) conditioning monsters. Box and wrestle;you'll have those toolbox skills for your base. The fitness part will be an added bonus.

 

[qwert65]

I'll second(or whatever it's up to) the boxing, even more than the wrestling because you'll learn what it's like to get hit.

I 'm in the process of helping some women friends learn SD and the biggest prob. is that they've never been hit so no knowledge of what it's like

 

[FerFAL]

Nick, if you already know how to box and spar frequently you already have an excellent base for what you need to learn.

You basically need to cover, striking ( fists, feet, elbows, knees, head) grappling, floor fighting, self defense moves that are not used on sparring such as hitting the groin area, or eye poking, and are often taught in self defense classes. You wont be practicing these of course, but you still should learn them and practice the moves at least, without going all the way.

There’s lots of folks that will happily sit in their couches, claiming that sports have nothing to do with street fighting. They probably think they can beat an UFC champion or box middle weight, or BJJ expert on an “unfair” or “dirty” fight, simply because the other guy doesn’t use it during training or on matches.

…How should I put this?

You don’t need to train much to push your finger into someone’s eye and pop it out, no rocket scientist needed for that, but you know what? The guy that trains in the “sport” will win 99% of the time against the guy that doesn’t ever set foot on a gym.

I’ve been inside prisons Nick, visited several for a long time because of personal issues, and I’ve seen them fight, and yes, it’s bloody, they’ll use knives, sticks, ropes, even short spears, but it’s still stuff you can learn and practice (prisoners train too you know!), and if you grab one of these guys by the neck and choke him he will still die just like any other human being, if you punch them in the jaw they are KO too, just like anyone else.

What I mean is, dirty fighting is just something you have to keep in mind, but you can still learn, practice and spar, and you’ll be light years ahead from the one that didn’t.

It’s not that different from shooting. You don’t train by killing innocent bystanders, you train in a range shooting targets and following certain safety rules, but you are still training for the real deal.
Same applies when fighting on a ring.

Avoid things that are supposed to work in theory, but you never get to practice them. Mostly Krav Maga. Your time will be much better spend in a Mixed Martial art gym.

The difference here will be the mentality you have. Some guys will learn MMA just as a sport alone, while you’ll do it to learn how to use your body to fight better, add more and more tools to your fighting arsenal. Just like people add different kind of firearms to their battery.

This is only part of your training, you also need to learn and practice, knife and stick fighting, at least the basics of how to strike and how to defend yourself against them.
Once you start using firearms for self defense, you should also learn disarming techniques, and practice force on force scenarios.

I’ve seen people in shooting classes that would loose EVERY time against unarmed attackers, even while armed, because the attacker would be quicker and stronger. Taking the gun away and using it against him.
Just being a good shot isn’t enough. If push comes to shove and you end up fighting for the control of your weapon, you need to be a better hand to hand fighter than your attacker.

Edited to add. Don’t loose focus of what your objective is. Becoming a good fighter for self defense.
Example, when I only did boxing I sparred with a friend of mine that was a judo champion.
I was down and submitted with a neck choke soon enough.
Now, when we got into fights in clubs, I could stand my ground and deal with 2 or 3 guys, keep them at bay, but my friend couldn’t even fight one. Why ? Because even thought he was the best fighter in the entire darn building, his style left him vulnerable to other attackers, even worse, he could end up in the floor where others could kick him to pieces, so he had to do his best to fight standing up, throwing lousy punches (punches he never trained or used in sparring) so as to stay on his feet.

That most efficient means could be a rock to the back of the head, a crushed throat, a busted knee followed by stomping the skull until it spilts apart. The goal of any martial art is only to teach you that martial art...all else is secondary. The goal of sport fighting (Boxing, wrestling, MMA) is to teach you how to succeed in a competition under a specific rule set.

Got to disagree there.
If you KO someone, killing the KOed person is just a matter of continuing the assoult that otherwise is stopped by the referee.
Instead of a person tapping out, you brake his leg or arm and then continue hurting until he can't even move, and you could easily kill him.
I used a neck choke in a real fight, worked pretty well.

FerFAL

 

[Deanimator]

TKD is first and foremost a sport, like most martial arts.

One thing that I noticed back in the '70s when I was reading a lot of martial arts magazines and studying Shorin Ryu was the astonishing fetish of some TKD advocates for high, impractical kicks in SELF-DEFENSE situations. The most (no pun intended) striking example was the cover of a TKD magazine I saw at the time. A pretty girl in a tennis outfit was being accosted by some creepy guy. Instead of beating his brains out with the substantial aluminum tennis racket which she was actually holding in her hand, she was giving him a high sidekick to the head. That isn't, in my opinion, an example of clear thinking when it comes to practical self-defense.

 

[Deanimator]

I used a neck choke in a real fight, worked pretty well.

The night before college graduation, my best friend was assaulted by another student in a blind alcoholic range, after being interrupted in the act of vandalizing a car in the dorm parking lot. My friend took him down with an osoto-gari, driving him at high speed into the asphalt. The guy kept trying to get back up. After punching him in the face several times without notable effect, my friend dashed behind him and applied a kesa-gatame, choking him out. When the cops showed up, one of them asked my friend what happened. He explained the whole thing. The cop replied, "Now Bob, you know you hadn't oughtta have done that. I'd have used a tai-otoshi, then I'd have..." They were in the same judo class, and proceeded to discuss at length the proper method of kicking the defendant's behind, while standing over his bloody body...