Unecessary LEO

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Another thought: If you DO carry a CCW license, keep it in a different flap of the wallet from your driver's license, especially if you are NOT carrying. If you are carrying, your local laws tell you whether or not you need to declare, but there's no sense in ASKING for trouble if you don't have to.
I have a condo in Ybor. My (white) friend and I walked down to the strip around 2:30am one weekend night to troll for women. We found a good spot to stand against the wall which so happened to be opposite of Blue Moon/Prana/whatever the other one is. We stood there from around 2:45 to at least 3:45. Just leaning against the wall. Every single black person that tried to come and stand next to us on that wall was told by the police to keep moving. Over that period of time it had to of been done 50 times. We were NEVER told anything. I'm not saying there is any profiling going on though... ;)

I always told my (ex)girlfriend we don't have to worry about being pulled over because we are white. Would be funny if it wasn't true.

Let me preface this by saying that I am a cop. If I were you I would ALWAYS find out what the reason for pulling you over was. Next, NEVER give permission to search your car. It can never help you. As taliv said, if you are being 100% truthful with what you have said, and you are correct in your assumptions, you need to be talking to a lawyer. Finally, consider moving :)
Sadly this crap does happen. But that said, its much better now than 20yrs ago. The other thing I have to point out is it seems LEO hassle young guys a lot more than if he was twice the age. So yes, age too is a contributing factor, it shouldn't be, but it is. Most LEO are respectful and not looking for something to pin on people, but you know in every population, there are rotten apples; And thats a fact of life! Not excusing that sort of behavior though.
OP... If what you are saying is true, you need to complain. Questions about the gun seem to be a bit over the top. Also you need to find out what you are being stopped for. profiling does still happen by the few. Illegal searches and un-needed contacts happen as well. Like was stated before, there are bad apples in every group/job/religion in this world.

Trust me on his. When cops step over the line its looked down on by fellow officers. That kind of stuff gives up a bad rap. One ruining it for the rest applies to police probably more than any other profession.

I've let plenty of bad guys go simply on the fact that I didn't have enough to get them. I could have violated their rights and done it but that is stupid on two levels.

1. It looks bad on us
2. Any lawyer will get it thrown out in court anyways.

I let them go because I know I will get them another day. We don't catch the smart ones.

Also, I ask many people if I can search their car during traffic stops. Many say no and it ends at that. But we have made some really good burglary and drug running busts with consent. Like I said, we dont catch the smart ones.
Originally Posted by ljnowell:
I dont see this thread going far, thats for sure. It shouldnt either.
Originally posted by 481:
I agree with you. This one was headed for "low road" territory as soon as it left the gate.
"low road"? So far, I've seen nothing but high road discussion in this thread.
There is no legal reason that you need to keep a bill of sale on you in this state. I do know a good Tampa lawyer and know very well that if I had my CCW confiscated for not having the bill of sale, we would have a discussion over his desk, a good laugh, and end the afternoon with some heavily lined pockets.

Keep noting numbers and the officers' names, and complain if they overstep themselves. Racial profiling is wrong in itself (and utterly futile down here besides), and people in any profession occasionally need reminded where their job ends. It could be that the officer didn't know (we get some transferred from NY and CA down here, and they seem to be demanding and clueless compared to locals, but often willing to learn--it's a better job here.) or that he truly was fishing. TPD has a reputation of making work for themselves, but sometimes ends up sending someone off to the land of private security to bring a better officer onto their force.

See C-grunt above, he speaks the truth.

In short, if you have to deal with anyone in or from downtown Tampa, keep notes. In quadruplet. One for them, one for you, one for a lawyer, and one hidden in case one of theirs gets "lost in the mail."
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There was a time, when my oldest son, a 17 year old, white kid got pulled EVERY time he hit the main road. I mean EVERY time for a week or so. LEO would check his license, registration, (the car was registerd to his mother and I). They would ask to search the car. My son allowed it. The LEO would hassle him about having tapes on the floor or something like that. This happened several times. I figured he fit the profile of a drug dealer. Young kid, driving a fancy, brand new car (Pontiac Firebird). These cops were determined to bust him for something. You would think the fact that the car was registerd to his mother and I would have been a clue. You would think the fact that license plate was a "vanity tag" that read PLEZ MOM was a clue. Apparently not.

I had a buddy in my bass clud who was/is a lawyer. I asked him about it. He said (1) Do not allow them to search the car. Make them get a warrant. Give your son my card, have him call me if it happens again. (2) I will call the patrol Sgt. and make sure it doesn't happen again.

It didn't.

So yea. It happens to all kinds of folks.
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I understand what the OP is talking about. Like it or not, if you are in many parts of Florida, "driving while black" ( or non-white) can often get more attention from the LEO's.
Just say No !
No you can't search, No I dont have anything to say, Here is my Licence and here is My Attorneys Business Card.
And the One that ends this crap; Do you mind if I tape this interview and would you mind stating your name and badge number?
Thanks for the advice guys, I only let them search to speed up the process of me getting home. Believe me I have had my share of awesome Leo's and not so good ones. I dont want scare you from my city with true stories.
Low Road? I am playing by the rules of the forum.
I will be seeking a lawyer maybe not for this sitiuation but if the need does arise again I will be more prepared.
Why is it when I got pulled over once a month as a man in my early 20's, it was due to the fact that young men tend to drive fast and break traffic laws, hence the reason why your car insurance is higher while in that age group.

You gave the cops permission to search your car. You should have refused. The cop had returned your IDs, the traffic stop was legally concluded. He could not have legally detained you, nor could he have legally searched you "for his safety."

I, for one, am sick of everything ALWAYS being blamed on race when something happens to a black person. Get over it, move on.
Man that stinks! Here's a story somewhat related-or not...A buddy and I [we are both white] were going to a gun show the other week that was out of town. I had a few things in his back seat that I was planning to buy some 'goodies' for. He was driving down the freeway at about 73 mph [limit is 65 mph] in the passing lane. Then we came up to a marked patroll car in the median and he was shooting radar towards us. By the time we saw him it was to late to slow down without being obvious. So my buddy just kept his speed. The LEO, who was white lowered his radar and watched us as we drove by. We looked for him to pull out but he never did. Was it because we were both white? I dunno. I guess we will never know.

They did you wrong. File an official complaint. If handled properly, there's a chance, however slight, that it will be taken seriously. Your biggest hurdle is that they have two people putting their spin on the incident against one. While it may be a waste of time, maybe the next time this particular LEO will be less inclined to hassle a black..............nah, but one can always hope!
Seriously the whole police system is shot!!! It's an us against them attitude with the cops. Furthermore, it has nothing to do with race. We are civilians to them. They are too young and uneducated these days. Just follow orders, quotas, and for god's sake do not think!!!

If you complain, the cops who pulled you over will only here about it and get their cop buddies to mess wit you--unless of course you are filthy rich and can afford to scare the hell out of them wit lawsuits.
If you complain, the cops who pulled you over will only here about it and get their cop buddies to mess wit you--unless of course you are filthy rich and can afford to scare the hell out of them wit lawsuits.
FAIL, on two levels.

1. It implies UNIVERSAL corruption on the part of police, which I'm reliably informed is not permitted here

2. Retaliation isn't just a civil tort, it's a CRIME. You get the police you WANT. If you ALLOW misconduct, you encourage it. If you WANT police to commit crimes in your town, don't bother to do anything about it when they do.
Not cop bashing...

...I'm an ex-cop and ex-training officer...so I don't wanna hear anything about me being a cop-basher...but regardless of why these cops stopped the OP, the minute they'd seen his permit to carry and gotten the lic/registr/ins. on the car, they should have proceeded on to the business of a traffic ticket...or let him go...the rest was racially-motivated harassment and I'd definitely go to internal affairs with it...totally unjustified...there is nothing in Fla. law that says you must prove ownership of the gun you're legally carrying...that's a ploy to confiscate and nothing else...I wouldn't roll over for this one...totally unprofessional conduct on the part of the police...and good preparation on the OP's part to have his receipt handy!!! Shame is that he had to feel it necessary to carry it with him...
Seriously the whole police system is shot!!! It's an us against them attitude with the cops. Furthermore, it has nothing to do with race. We are civilians to them. They are too young and uneducated these days. Just follow orders, quotas, and for god's sake do not think!!!

If you complain, the cops who pulled you over will only here about it and get their cop buddies to mess wit you--unless of course you are filthy rich and can afford to scare the hell out of them wit lawsuits.
If some cops really do have an us against them attitude, do you think it could at least partially be due to people with an attitude similar to yours?

I had a conversation with a State Trooper neighbor over the weekend at a BBQ. He said he looks for (profiles) certain types of drivers every single day. He is mainly looking for narco trafficers. He said he starts asking them small details about thier day and if they cant keep up (for instance, "where did you stay last night"" and they have to think about it) then he asks them if he can search the car. If they happen to be informed and tell him no, he runs them for priors, if they have any he calls a K9 unit to check the outside of the car.

Not once did he ever mention probable cause for pulling them over other then the way they looked.
Stupid occurs... My oldest is 18. He got stopped a couple of months ago at 11:40pm for no apparent reason and was given a breathalyzer and THEN when he blew 0.0 he was given a field sobriety test. They also searched his car. I can only go by what he tells me of course but his version was he was on the way home (he has a midnight curfew) and was not speeding, not weaving, not thru a license check. These two cops were sitting in a parking lot and came out as he passed.

Once done, they told him that he better hope he made it home by midnight (GA law that under 18 curfew is midnight not to mention MY curfew) and left... I am NOT a cop basher at all but these guys were on a witch hunt and I was PISSED. Small town force...sadly he didn't tell me until a month later so I have no record and no recourse that i'm aware of. I told him in the future he should have called me from the stop once freed to go so I could come out there.

There are idiots everywhere in all jobs
We never have all the facts when we sit as a jury passing judgments on the basis of accounts like this. So what have we learned here?

Stops anywhere in the USA must be based upon probable or reasonable cause. The officer should volunteer the reason for the stop, or you should ask civilly why you were stopped. Note time and vehicle ID, name on badge. Be assured you are on camera and/or audio recording.

Once you are handed your license back you are free to leave and should do so, carefully. No more chitchat. Good evening officer. Don't volunteer. And it is never wise to consent to a search.

There are a world of damn fine LEOs out there, and they do a job that has more than its share of pain. Just don't fall into the trap of painting them all with the same brush.
Would it be safe to say that a LE can pull anyone over late at night just fishing for drunks? What I mean is that it occurs, not that its right.
...yes...and I did...BUT...when you pull someone over because you think they're drunk, or a druggie...or whatever your suspicion...you'd better have noticed a driving or vehicle violation, or IF the stop turns into an arrest, a judge will throw the arrest out because you had no right to stop him in the first place...honestly, most drivers aren't that good, and will do something within a block or two to give you the legal right to stop and chat with them...but without that violation, the only way the following events will hold up is if it was a DUI checkpoint ...everyone has rules they gotta follow....
Would it be safe to say that a LE can pull anyone over late at night just fishing for drunks?
NO, absent even the PRETENSE of RAS for that SPECIFIC individual, that would be UNsafe to say.

They can't just pull you over for fun. Of course if you let it go on without protest, that encourages such behavior. If you don't like people doing things to you that they shouldn't, make them stop. If you think it's too much trouble, don't complain.
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