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Warning about shotguns for home defense

Discussion in 'Shotguns' started by No Fear, Oct 15, 2008.

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  1. No Fear

    No Fear member

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    The cultural thing to do is to get a shottie for HD and proclaim that "the bad guy will mess himself when I rack the slide" (a move which reduces the already low capacity and communicates not having a fully loaded magazine).

    A friend encountered a burglar and there was a struggle over the shotgun. Apparently the cornered criminal was able to surprise him and grab the barrel. The struggle didn't last long because the guy found a way to run off. My friend said he considered firing but was afraid the shot would spread out too widely and possibly hit family members. After talking about it, he told me he put the big shotgun in the cabinet and if that happens again, the bad guy will be ventilated with 9mm, when first caught, and at close range, before he can grab any long barrel.
     
  2. Halffast

    Halffast Member

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    If a bad guys hears the racking sound in my house it's because I just shot his buddy and he's next.
     
  3. Schofield3

    Schofield3 Member

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    Well said :D
     
  4. cerberus65

    cerberus65 Member

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    I wouldn't shoot at a running away bad guy.

    While I'm all for ridding the world of parasites, I don't want to end up in jail. And I don't want to end up sued into poverty in civil court either.

    Once the guy is running away it's a lot harder to make the argument that you were in fear of imminent harm or death.
     
  5. Lonestar49

    Lonestar49 Member

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    2nd shot, you bet..

    ...

    Indeed..

    +2


    Ls
     
  6. DRYHUMOR

    DRYHUMOR Member

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    I figure the bad guy is in an unfamiliar place, probably got a good adrenaline flow going.

    The last thing I would do is rack a slide, or make any noise to give away my position. Then he knows within a foot or 2 exactly where you are and starts to weigh options.

    Most times there are only 2, fight or flight. And to odds can change in a heartbeat.
     
  7. donato

    donato Member

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    I don't have to worry about racking the slide. My double barrel doesn't even make a noise when I slide the safety off. And, you can't even hear any gritty sound in the DA trigger pull of my P-01.
     
  8. NC-Mike

    NC-Mike Member

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    Well I keep the P32 I carry in my nightstand. It's already loaded and won't make a sound till I fire it.

    I hope the noise prompts the flight reflex for the bad guy! :(
     
  9. H2O MAN

    H2O MAN member

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    My M1 Super 90 has no slide to rack, but my G21 is my 1st line of defense.
     
  10. OregonJohnny

    OregonJohnny Member

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    This is not my exact opinion, I'm just summarizing what others have suggested in regards to defending yourself and your family in a dwelling using a firearm when you are aware of an intruder:

    Get everyone into the master bedroom or other main safe room, take shelter behind the bed or other large object, call police, and keep the muzzle of your shotgun aimed at the entry point. No way will a bad guy be able to cross that threshold and grab your barrel before you pull the trigger.

    If however, you are required to work through a house and "clear" it alone, where you might be coming around tight corners in the dark, a shotgun may not be the best choice. But as has been said before, if you can possibly avoid venturing out into your house looking for a bad guy, it's better to leave the room clearing to the police.

    So in conclusion: A shotgun is probably best for making a defensive "last stand" in a room behind cover while waiting for police, a handgun is probably best for tight, silent, room clearing operations.

    Others with many more years and much more experience under their belts have written volumes on the subject.
     
  11. rondog

    rondog Member

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    That "racking the slide" is just Hollywood BS. Just like every Western ever made shows 'em jacking a levergun before shooting, never just cocking the hammer because there's already a round in there.
     
  12. Soldiersurfs

    Soldiersurfs Member

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    If the badguy is close enough to grab the barrel its time to pull the trigger. I dont really see this as a warning against HD use of a shotgun. Even with an 18.5" barrel my spead is only about 12" at max HD distances , so that isnt really an issue. And although it might be easier for the bad guy to grab the shotgun its also easier for me to hold onto then any of my pistols.
     
  13. rondog

    rondog Member

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    My God, just exactly how big IS your house? If there's an intruder in your home, do you really think you're going to be able to arm yourself, wake everybody up, herd them into a "safe room" behind cover, call the po-po, and cover the entryway?

    Most folks live in normal sized houses, and any intruder will be encountered within seconds. Ain't gonna be any wakin' and herdin' done.
     
  14. CWL

    CWL Member

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    No Fear,
    Take a SD shotgun class, not a "safety class" but a real SD class. It will take away every misconception you just posted.

    That investment will teach you why shotties are devastating close-up weapons. I've never been to one that taught you to "rack the slide", I think you are referring to movies rather than real-world.

    As for one-less in the tube, you obviously do not understand round selection tactics/training for shotguns. This is a benefit, not a weakness. "low capacity"???? Each of my 12ga shells contains 9 rounds of 00 buck, how many bullets can you shoot with one trigger-pull of a pistol?

    As for somebody grabbing the shotgun -this is actually a perfect method for the BG to help you aim your shottie. I won't go into details on a public forum, but having a BG grab the shotgun is a perfect method for you to ventilate the BG and reduce the chance for stray buck.
     
  15. oneounceload

    oneounceload member

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    not necessarily so - a "normal" size two-story home with bedrooms all on the second floor might have exactly his scenario.



    please don't "aim", POINT your shotGUN at an intruder...("shotty" is SO immature and mall-ninjaesque)

    how many shots can you fire from one pull of your shotgun's trigger? Probably the same as I can from my pistol - one per pull...(NFA fans notwithstanding)
     
  16. OregonJohnny

    OregonJohnny Member

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    "My God, just exactly how big IS your house? If there's an intruder in your home, do you really think you're going to be able to arm yourself, wake everybody up, herd them into a "safe room" behind cover, call the po-po, and cover the entryway?

    Most folks live in normal sized houses, and any intruder will be encountered within seconds. Ain't gonna be any wakin' and herdin' done."


    ???

    Read the first sentence in my first post again. Not my opinion, just summarizing what others have said. Don't shoot the messenger (no pun intended).

    From Larry Correia, Utah Firearms Instructor, sourced from corneredcat.com -

    "First off, clearing your house by yourself is usually a bad idea. Don’t do it unless you have to. To illustrate, play this game with your kids or your spouse. Have them be the bad guy somewhere in your house. Now, you go find them. Who sees who first? Right, usually they see you coming.

    So if possible, take up a defensive position that covers the entrance to your room and your kid’s rooms and call 911. In this scenario long gun totally wins."
     
  17. 357wheelgunner

    357wheelgunner Member

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    When I learned how to disarm people armed with handguns and rifles I thought "Who the hell is going to let me get close enough to grab their rifle or pistol? They can shoot me from a distance away...."

    Apparently some people get way too close to home invaders and other adversaries.

    Don't ever let someone get close enough to grab your gun...
     
  18. BruceRDucer

    BruceRDucer Member

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    /

    This is a disppointment. You mean to tell me that your friend failed to provide proper ventilation? What kind of courtesy izzat?:what:


    Why that ain't no manners at all!

    :neener::neener::neener::neener::neener:
     
  19. BruceRDucer

    BruceRDucer Member

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    /

    Yeah, I pretty much appreciated this one too.

    The tendency of people toward an indecisive
    nature, wherein they don't know the difference between "Come!" & "Go Sic'em" just gripes my liver.

    /:scrutiny::scrutiny::scrutiny::scrutiny::what:


    /
     
  20. missouri dave

    missouri dave Member

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    Depends on your situation. The wife and I don't have anyone else in the house to worry about. I'd open hostilities with the 12 bore and when it's empty transition to the beretta 9mm. I'll stop firing as soon as opposition ceases. If the perp is close enough to grab the shotgun he's dead whether he grabs it or not. It IS getting discharged!
     
  21. Merkelman

    Merkelman Member

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    Only need to rack the slide after you shoot the first BG.
     
  22. GIGGIDY

    GIGGIDY Member

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    Proper training and a "Do not accept defeat" mind set will almost always overcome the "shortcomings" described by the OP. If you have a plan ahead of time for a home intruder scenario you are miles ahead and likely will be the one alive at the end of it all.
     
  23. Murexway

    Murexway Member

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    Depends

    As others have said, no one solution fits everyone's situation, although shot size can be tailored to address penetration concerns (within reason).

    As for those who assert that their hangun fires the same one round with each pull of the trigger, each one of my #1 buck rounds spews out 16, 7.62mm projectiles.

    I've also been educated to believe that, due to the lack of an internal firing pin block, a shotgun with a round in the chamber is more likely than a handgun to discharge if accidentally dropped. Thus, I keep the chamber empty until a round is needed.

    I certainly don't recommend depending upon the sound of a pump shotgun being racked to scare away a hot-prowl burgler - one of the scariest types of criminals one might ever encounter. But in my personal experience as a former LEO, that sound froze more than one out of control situation.

    Of course in those situations everyone knew I was there. Which is why I agree with those who wouldn't want to give away their position in a dark bedroom with such a noise.

    Thus my plan is to sit quietly in the dark and when the bad guy appears (and is positively identified as such - not a family member) the last sound he will hear is KACHUNKBAM.
     
  24. Gunfighter123

    Gunfighter123 Member

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    I beg to differ with most replies --- I have done/seen that the "racking" of a 12ga. pumpgun does some amazeing things. I have seen it "sober" more then one drunk rowdy. And once , outside at night , I scared the crap out of a county LE officier when I heard a fight going on outside my house , in my yard. I went outside and from a dark spot , seen someone creeping around by my garage -- as I "racked" my Rem. 870 --- the policeman turned on his flashlight and still could not tell where I was. After I knew it WAS a LE , I called to him and the first thing that he said was to put down the SHOTGUN !!! EVERYBODY knows what the sound of a SG being racked is !!!
     
  25. onebigelf

    onebigelf Member

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    I load slugs. No spread, it's going where I put it, and NOBODY is getting back up from it. I keep an empty chamber. If there is any distance I believe in the pacifying force of sheer terror. At point-blank range or other need... it's an Ithica 37 riot gun with an 18" barrel. Why? Because as far as I know *only Ithica fires as you slam the slide forward if you are holding the trigger down*. Know your equipment. Make it work for you.

    John
     
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