Pump Shotguns - home defense

[rugerfreak]

Here's the deal:

Once you/they have saw fit to break into my place--you/they have become an IMMEDIATE threat to me and mine.

There will be no discussion---no warning--no sound and no bargaining.

Your/their options have become slim at that time---most likely your exit will be in the form of a plastic bag.

I keep the gun fully loaded with the safety on---I want the extra shot. Handguns are prefered---the shotgun is in the retreat of the bedroom.

The neighbor's kid ought to have known better by now.

 

[Texan]

welcome to THR Texan.

Thanks MD,

Like I said been just hanging around for quite a few years (since '04)...decided to jump in on something and WoW...some people are touchy on opinions!!

o~\o

 

[btucker1947]

Rack it for second Shot

I like some of the scenarios Robert brought up. I'm a Hunter and if I have an intruder. I quietly grab my 1911 that's already cocked and locked. We will know there is an intruder, because they would have to kill the dog to get in. Normally the dog alerts us before anyone get near the door
There was plenty of false alarms at our old house, too many. We had 3 senarios in the past 20 years, so it was a good thing we never got complacent. We always alerted like someone was coming to get us. We were right three times.
It's good to have a good plan, but you never know if it will work in every situation. You know what they say about plans. Sometimes, you have to go with your instincts.

The only thing I got to say," Boy! you in Texas, now!"

 

[Robert Hairless]

Caipirinha:

LOL, it took you years of study to tell that you've got an intruder if someone is kicking down your door, breaking your windows, or screaming obscenities?

Yup. That's so I will know for sure why I've gathered my family into a safe room instead of wondering why we're all there after we get there. I might even make some notes along the way so I don't forget.

Ed Ames:

What I find interesting is that kicking down your door, breaking your windows, and/or screaming obscenities is what it takes to be categorized as an intruder.

To me, that's an attacker... and frankly I haven't pissed anyone off enough (recently) to go into attack mode like that so I figure if I have an attacker they've probably got the wrong address. All I've got to do is explain their error to them or avoid harm long enough for them to realize their mistake and the problem goes away. I still want a weapon in case they don't quite figure things out in time but the main goal is education.

The intruders I'm likely to have trouble with are the quiet ones... the guys and gals who come in the night to steal. They don't want a confrontation, they want stuff. Confrontations are just part of getting stuff. They won't be busting down the door or screaming obscenities. They may break things of course but that's incidental.

Ed, I'd never considered the possibility of simply explaining to people who make a violent intrusion into a home that they probably have the wrong address.

Your approach is certainly much more civilized than the rather nasty responses proposed by others in this thread, and it's both hospitable and educational as well. Who could argue against your proposition that education is the main goal.

Perhaps it would be useful to have a good street map handy to help speed the home invaders on their way to the intended destination. In this time of high gasoline prices it could help them conserve gasoline, which would be a savings to them and a boon to a world that must conserve carbon fuels.

I'm not sure I understand your distinction between "intruder" and "attacker" where home invasions--or perhaps we should now be calling them something like "unissued residential invitations"--in the context of this thread. The conventional wisdom is that people who initiate unissued residential invitations when the occupants are in the residence are extremely dangerous and are there to do more than simply "get stuff." If they wanted to "get stuff" it surely would be easier to do when no one was at home, but perhaps not in your neighborhood where at least some residents are gentlefolk.

Even if you disagree with that conventional wisdom, you should have no reason to be worried about confrontations with "the quiet ones... the guys and gals who come in the night to steal." If you happen upon one in the night, surely you can tippytoe back to bed and let them go about their work undisturbed. Even if you do disturb them, anyone who has the social skills to educate a violent attacker should have no difficulty at all in charming a quiet, unassuming burglar. Should you come upon one in your home unexpectedly perhaps the offer of milk and cookies might demonstrate your hospitality. During the little snack you could educate the burglar on the resources available to him at other homes in your neighborhood.

If matters become hostile you might play a classic recording of Arturo Toscanini leading the NBC Symphony Orchestra in a performance of Remington's Greatest Racks or, if your tastes are slightly more modern, Bill Haley and the Comets in a sprightly rendition of Rack Around the Clock.

Any criminal would feel himself privileged to practice his profession in your castle instead of in the many less welcoming environments revealed to us thus far.

Texan:

Like I said been just hanging around for quite a few years (since '04)...decided to jump in on something and WoW...some people are touchy on opinions!!

I wondered from your original post and the others you posted in this thread whether you might be surprised by the touchiness of some people on this subject. Although you've been hanging around this forum since 2004 you never saw anyone else post the same suggestion and stir up the same responses. Something about putting on your body armor made me think that you weren't expecting such touchiness. Body armor is fashionable this season. Wow indeed.

 

[zinj]

Forget about giving away your position by racking a shotgun; you give your position away getting out of bed. Try this experiment:

On a quiet night with all of your stuff in the house turned off (including lights), have someone in your bedroom simulate the sounds of waking up in the middle of the night and getting ready to defend themselves while you are in a different part of the house. You may be surprised by how much noise is made.

 

[Ed Ames]

Robert,

You aren't alone in failing to examine the prevalent dynamics of these infrequent yet high-stress social interactions. It is, as evidenced by the majority of posts in this thread, a common failing. Not just this thread; one needs only look at the frequent news reports of individuals shot while trying to enter their girlfriend's/boyfriend's/own house and, most regrettably, finding themselves at the door of a complete stranger. There is a reoccurring and quite disheartening theme of inebriated trespassers dying at the hands of frightened homeowners which would be... reduced, at the very least, if more people followed my lead in viewing these encounters as a chance to educate and inform.

That said: I draw the line rather sooner than you seem to indicate. Perhaps it is my stingy nature or my lack of a proper southern upbringing but I do not see the merit in providing street maps free of charge. If they wish to buy street maps I suppose I could have some on hand... but I suspect that the typical drunken aggressor, coming as they so often do from the lower socio-economic strata, may not have sufficient cash for such a transaction.

The distinction between intruder and attacker is simple. An attacker is someone who is actively attacking. They will, as you so aptly described, come yelling profanities and quite possibly destroying property. Their goal is violence and their target is... well, it probably isn't me but it might well be you. I have no idea how many enemies you have.

The distinction is made because some people do have active and determined enemies. I don't know how many ex husbands you have lurking about in your shrubs but such people do exist and, by the time they resort to lurking, they often intend direct and personal harm to their targets. Oleg posted an audio recording of a 911 call of a woman with an attacker beating down her door. I believe it was a youtube video with image/text backgrounds. I urge you to find and listen to it... and then consider whether there is anyone in your life who would have such adamant hatred of you as a specific individual. If you do... I suggest you get specific help and quite possibly talk to sm who seems to have sound views on such problems.

That pretty well deals with the "kicking down your door, breaking your windows, and screaming obscenities" types. So what's left for the rest of us? Intruders who wish to "get stuff". Intruders who, as you correctly observe, would prefer to do so without the presence of... well, the owner of that stuff. There are two problems here. Firstly, mistakes are made. Secondly, there is only one sure way to ensure that the owner will not be present. Yes, that crosses right into attacker territory...but they are not the kicking-down-the-doors-and-screaming sorts of attackers previously mentioned. Different challenges require different strategies. If your training is limited to the kicking, shouting, window breaking type of attacker then you are not properly trained to meet the real-world threat you are most likely to face.

I think it was fairly clear that intruders out to "get stuff" would be dealt with more sharply, at least initially, than "attackers". This is common sense... I have no enemies but I do have "stuff", so, while an attacker can be presumed to be at the wrong address, anyone who wants to "get stuff" must be presumed to be targeting me. This makes them far more dangerous than a confused and misdirected drunk.

As for the rest... I'm afraid I don't keep a ready supply of milk or cookies about and I'm sad to say I don't have the equipment to do justice to those undoubtedly fine recordings you have suggested. I will certainly consider those ideas when drafting my next home security plan but I hope you will not take it amiss if those elements are dropped from the final document.

Any uninvited guests will have to be satisfied with a view down the barrel of my handgun. That's a rare enough treat that they should consider themselves quite privileged indeed. Hopefully privileged enough... though I am certainly willing to go the extra distance to make their experience unrepeatable if hospitality requires.

 

[Titan6]

The one thing that was taken away is that only a VERY few people, would be willing to continue on when told to stop. Even "suicidal" or ready to die for a cause people would stop.

Really? Even someone high on PCP or crack? Not that someone like that would ever break into your house... I am just saying...

 

[md7]

Note to self:
Cancel suprise party for wyocarp...

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Texan]

I wondered from your original post and the others you posted in this thread whether you might be surprised by the touchiness of some people on this subject. Although you've been hanging around this forum since 2004 you never saw anyone else post the same suggestion and stir up the same responses. Something about putting on your body armor made me think that you weren't expecting such touchiness. Body armor is fashionable this season. Wow indeed.

Ya know to be very honest I've never really caught a post on this subject before and probably wouldn't have even made my original post if it hadn't been for the way one of the members came down on me. I made a comment in another thread about "the racking sound" and it started. I don't air my laundry in public so sent a PM explaining myself and it got worst...so, the post.

Ya know I've officiated football for 30 years now and have Coaches get a little beside themselves all the time but was caught off guard on this one. Wonder if I could wear body armor on the field...at least over my butt. Ha!!

So, I think I'll just sit here at my little table and watch some more..Thanks!!

o~\o

 

[throdgrain]

Has this actually ever happened to any of you?

 

[btucker1947]

Ed you are long winded guy, but make some good points.

If some one enters my home in the middle of the night, I have a note on the refrigerator cookies and Milk here, WWoops,, I think that is for Santa. / I consider an intruder an attacker, and my job is to stop them, cold.

An old Infantry Soldier told me once, " A man who kills when there is an alternative, is a fool."

 

[Ed Ames]

Ed you are long winded guy...

LOL... you think?

I agree completely that anyone in your home/within your security perimeter must be treated as dangerous. There isn't much room for argument there.

Where I think nuances are missed is that a few people really do have attackers (whether those attackers are intruding or not) and in that situation the rules really change. Most of us don't... we just have stuff someone else wants. An attacker isn't going to be deterred... some intend their own death in a murder/suicide attack, others are just really irrational... so talking deterrents is silly. The others just want to optimize their stuff:work and stuff:risk ratios... make it hard or risky for them and they'll g away. Deterrents are a great help there.

Know your opponent. If you suspect a real attacker (as in you just finished an ugly divorce and have received threats) behave accordingly... otherwise be realistic.

 

[btucker1947]

Woman knocks , car is broken down needs phone

One incident that we had was, a woman came to our front door and knocked right after we turned the lights off about 10:30.
The Wife was already in bed, my 17 yr old son, and I went to the door. Defender and 45 are close , 45 in my hand. She says she needs help with her car and needs to use the phone. I said OK, and turned to go and get the phone. I jarred the locked screen door as I turned, and it made a noise. Immediately I caught the movement and a dude jumped out from the side of the house, with a sign post in his hand.
That's when the 45 came out, and my son actually destroyed the screen on the door as he racked one of the 00' Buck into the chamber and pointed it. My wife heard the shotgun load, and us yelling at them to drop it ! The setup woman was screaming. I was yelling drop IT! or I'll shoot! He doesn't drop it right away , stupid S.O.B He came close to getting shot that night. He finally dropped it and layed down. My Wife got her gun and went to her position in a different sector. I covered both of them, which were lying down in the front yard now. I was just inside the doorway. My Son turned on the security lights to flood the perimeter. I yelled at the two to get up and in the back of my truck and they did it. All this time the dog is going crazy, so we let him out the back door. He covers the area, and ends up at the truck wanting a piece of them two. Now, we know it's just those two. Wife covers us with 12 , and we beat hell out of him, the dog may have gotten in there too, threw the PERP in back of truck; and took them to nearest town and dumped them out, alive. Nobody bothered us for 6 years after that. We didn't have the Castle Doctrine in effect in 94. I'm sure you'al mustv' had a couple situations, but this one turned out good,with no shots fired. They were just nice folks that got the wrong House, Thats' all.

 

[Regolith]

Forget about giving away your position by racking a shotgun; you give your position away getting out of bed. Try this experiment:

On a quiet night with all of your stuff in the house turned off (including lights), have someone in your bedroom simulate the sounds of waking up in the middle of the night and getting ready to defend themselves while you are in a different part of the house. You may be surprised by how much noise is made.

Bingo. My floors are so creaky, you know from the other side of the apartment when someone is moving around.

Has this actually ever happened to any of you?

Somewhat. Someone broke into my house one night. I was downstairs, they broke in to the upstairs from the back porch. I grabbed a Model 12, racked it, then started yelling. They got the message, and left. Quickly. I never even saw them, because by the time I got upstairs they were gone. (and yes, I know someone actually broke in because there were fresh footprints in the newly fallen snow outside).

I don't know if it was the yelling, or the sound of the shotgun, or both that got their attention. But either way, it worked.

I am not very eager to take a life. I don't want to spend the time explaining myself to the police, or having to clean up 5 liters of possibly contaminated blood, or with the emotional trauma that sometimes comes after having to kill another human being.

So I'm going to do everything in my power to get an intruder to leave before I have to shoot them. That includes alerting them to the fact that if they continue to persist, 9 pellets of 00 buck will be heading their way and looking to get acquainted with their chest cavity, and the fastest way to tell them that is to rack a shotgun slide, followed by "Get out of my house" and whatever expletives seem appropriate.

Yes, this poses a risk. It alerts them to my presence, and if they are bound and determined to kill me, it negates any tactical surprise I may have had. But to me that risk IS worth it, to not have to deal with the mess involved with shooting another person.

Statistically, the vast majority of firearm-related self defense situations end up with nary a round being exchanged on either side, so there is good evidence that this tactic (trying to scare the intruder away) does work.

If they flee after that demonstration, so much the better. This is the preferred outcome of ANY self defense situation.

If they continue their antics, they get shot. This is not a preferred outcome, but its better than me being dead.

 

[Robert Hairless]

Ed you are long winded guy...

I think he's articulate, precise, and remarkably good natured although perhaps inclined to over intellectualize some essentially simple problems.

 

[inkhead]

Everyone here always uses some "crackhead" or person on PCP as some shiny example of the person who breaks into your house. Seriously everybody has seen the one video of the guy who was supposedly on PCP get shot 6 times, they assume that's what every person on drugs is like.

It's nothing like that. The odds of somebody high out of their mind being at your door at 3am to rob you isn't impossible, just not so probable. If somebody is high out of their mind they usually still have their stash, and don't need to steal for drugs. It's usually sober people suffering from withdraw.

I actually have compassion in some twisted way for anyone who breaks into a house. I know it doesn't sound very badass, but quite a few of these thieves I will sorry for.. Most of them are piss broke, and literally stealing as a last resort. Most of them used to be semi-normal and are in a desperate situation. From what I've seen and delt with, most of them would "kill" for a regular job at 7/11..

I'm not saying they aren't criminals, but over the years I get soft with old age. I think after you see enough "supposedly evil, awful" people, you start to see a little humanity in all of them. There are very few, psychopathic evil people. I guess... hmm, after dealing with criminals for a long time and listening to their situation or pleas, I became scared to realize just how little difference there is between US and that criminal. Someday in the future prison, will be more about rehabilitation, and teaching people to have a better understanding of themselves...

I know I sound like a bleeding heart, but whatever.

I'd be careful about shooting somebody in your house, maybe in the middle of the night, but I wouldn't fire right away. Where I used to live, at 3am I heard a sound in the kitchen, got up, and found what appeared to be a man there.. Flipped on the light and it was a 12 year old kid, who didn't talk looking in my cupboard drawers. The neighbor had an autistic kid who liked to have late night snacks, and he came in through my back yard, and pulled hard on the screen, and broke it. His parents were so sorry, anyway since we were all up I ended up going over at 3am for snacks at their place. Just be careful, don't go to jail, and it's okay to have a little compassion, be safe

 

[Robert Hairless]

Texan and Ed Ames:

I hope that neither of you mind being linked for the moment. You shouldn't because you're both intelligent people with stable centers.

Threads like this one tend to move fairly quickly in several directions away from the point raised, probably because people seem to read messages for what they expect to see or what triggers personal issues, and matters of self defense trigger a lot of those issues. As of course it must.

Texan, you'd said that you were a police officer for about 8 years. If they were recent 8 years, the Texas community evidently lost perhaps the most sensitive law enforcement officer I've ever met and either one of the more puzzling or the most disingenuous. Your original post said that you begin this thread because the comment you made in some other thread, that the sound of shotgun slide being racked is a potential defensive move, triggered strong disagreement from someone who communicated with you in private messages.

But from time to time in the three pages of messages that followed, you express surprise and wonder that the same issue generated similarly "strong opinions." Either you're truly puzzled by what a reasonable man of at least ordinary intelligence could have anticipated because of his prior experience or you're being intentionally disingenuous, expressing surprise at the predictable reaction: strong support from some, strong disagreement from others. You seem a reasonable man and you're obviously intelligent, so I think you're being disingenuous when you claim to be surprised by disagreement.

And because some people disagree strongly with what you say, you proclaim your retirement from active participation because it's all too, too much for you to bear. Such a sensitive disposition is not what I would have expected in an 8 year veteran of the police in the great state of Texas and a Vietnam veteran too. Our country is fortunate to have cops and military men of elevated sensibilities. Perhaps you could join Ed in serving refreshments to anyone who invades his house, help him to explain their mistake, and speed them along to their correct destination.

As I said in an earlier message here, in this thread, I'm no advocate of shooting people. My reason for participating in this thread is to object to the misinformation and absolutely awful advice you've given. Despite your assertion that self-defense courses teach people to rack a shotgun slide to scare away home invaders and other villains, I still don't know of even one respected course in which that's taught. To the contrary, every course I've attended in which either the instructor or a student raised that idea the instructor shot it down dead. Again: you cannot predict how your opponents will react to anything.

If you could predict their reaction with any degree of certainty, it would be far better to say either "Your fly is open!" or "Look behind you!" and point in the appropriate direction. Then, when he turns his gaze there, hit him in the head with a frozen salmon. Or say seductively, "Hi cutie. Wanna dance?" and when you both embrace ask him if he wants milk with his cookies.

I wasn't fortunate enough to know your papa the bounty hunter, Texan, but "if you don't feel comfortable about shooting somebody" the best idea is to not introduce a firearm into the situation, especially if you're "not talking about an experienced shooter here." If your inexperienced person isn't sure that he or she will use that gun--and especially if he or she isn't convinced that its use is warranted--he or she has absolutely no justification for brandishing it and stands a good chance of getting clobbered while he or she thinks about it. It's also bad advice because it leads inexperienced people to believe that a firearm is something intermediate, not final, and not an escalation of the situation.

Ed Ames, you must live in a far more interesting neighborhood than mine and others I know from experience. Enraged ex husbands play no great role in home invasions in my neighborhood and the others I know. Home invasions in these neighborhoods are made by perfect strangers who don't even have proper introductions. Someone I know living in an exclusive neighborhood I know fell asleep in his chair one afternoon and before he could rouse himself from the sound of his door being kicked in he had a hammer in his head. Tacky. Not the hammer: I'm told it was rather substantial. I could repeat other anecdotes but that's unnecessary for an NRA member: "The Armed Citizen" column in each issue of the NRA magazines has sufficient reports of home invasions, none of them by angry ex husbands or wives that I can recall.

But surely you know of the July 2007 incident in which the Petit family home in Cheshire, CT, was invaded by two parolees who killed the mother and her two daughters after locking the father in the basement, then burned the home. They weren't ex husbands of the mother, the two daughters, or even the father. They were stone killers who didn't follow your rules. Instead they followed the conventional wisdom among the law enforcement officers I know that people who invade an occupied home want more than just stuff.

In any case that, and other points you raised, is a byway insofar as my participation in this thread is concerned. You're often enjoyable, and I certainly don't think you're long winded, but you've helped move the discussion away from its main points and those are all that interest me here.

I've no doubt that a Dave McCracken or Lee Lapin or other knowledgable people with experience and a command voice can successfully punctuate their orders to a potential threat with the sound of a racked shotgun. It's misleading to suggest that someone inexperienced and doubtful about the situation take up a firearm for the purpose of using it as a magic wand. Henry Aldrich racking a shotgun he has no firm intention of using is only a squeaky voiced teenager playing a role he likely can't sustain.

Now, like the Texan but for different reasons, I shall ride off into the sunset sufficient for the day. Unlike him, though, I'm not surprised by the strong opinions generated by this subject or offended by them either.

Hi yo, Silver. Away!

(Not that direction! The other one. Darned horse doesn't know his hayfoot from his strawfoot.)

 

[btucker1947]

Racking a Shotgun

Fast Frank, my friend , you are living in a dream world. Just make sure you have a plan; have coffee made or beer for them, lock yourself in a room, and call the police. It's obvious that you are not sure of making a correct decision when your life or family may depend on you. As far as racking your shotgun?? Just remember, if you don't have the stomach for a fight, don't pick up that shotgun just to scare them with. There are some crazy people out there, that are not afraid of that noise. They know when they hear the noise they are going to face an armed person, and sike up themselves for the fight. Never point or threaten anyone with a gun unless you intend to shoot them.

 

[Ed Ames]

You are correct, Robert. Random, unprovoked, and extremely violent residential attacks are a fact of life in this world and have been for a very long time.

How big a fact of life? In our land of 300,000,000 people, how many die each year at the hands of unknown and unprovoked assailants who burst uninvited into the homes of their victims? 10%? 20%? 0.0005%?

I don't know precisely. It's such an infrequent occurrence that we don't really have accurate numbers. 0.0005% would be a reasonable ballpark estimate. 0.0002% would perhaps be too low. That's out of a 1.5%-2% general violent crime (including forceful theft and targeted attack between known parties) victimhood rate.

So here's my highly intellectual concept: Don't sweat the little numbers....

What are the big numbers? Well, #1 is targeted crimes between people who know each other. Wife beats husband, husband hires killer to take on wife, a drug deal goes south, Vince doesn't pay his debts and needs some educating, and the rest of the opera. In other words, lifestyle choices. Don't choose that lifestyle. It's a bad lifestyle... very bad at least 1% of the time... but if that's you then I figure you are probably aware of the problem and can take specific steps to address your security needs. If you have chosen this sort of lifestyle (or had it chosen for you by birth or unfortunate relationships) you should remember that deterrents won't really deter the people you should be most concerned with.

The other 0.995%? That's where we live... where I and most of the people on this forum live... and here the crimes are mostly property crimes (which doesn't address their violence... people are killed during property crimes...), the victims are chosen for relative ease... and deterrents actually work.

Which brings us back to the sound of a pump gun. It's a warning sound, just like the rattle of a rattlesnake's... umm... rattle.... and, just like a rattlesnake's rattle it can backfire and draw some types of attackers. There is risk in everything...driving to work can leave you dead under the mangled remains of a semi... that doesn't mean you should huddle silently in your house.

 

[silverlance]

This month, I spent a ridiculous amount of money on what will become my primary defensive weapon.

It is a pump action 12g shotgun that uses detachable magazines. That package alone was stupidly expensive, but worth it.

I am further going to spend more money on it. I am going to install rails on either side of the receiver. one side will mount a small flashlight, and the other will mount a laser.

Why the light and the laser?

Because it gives me choices. That light and laser allows me keep the BG from getting a good look at me, and the laser lets him know affirmatively that yes, he is being aimed at.

do i need a light or a laser? nope.

but it's nice to have added options.

which is why i stopped carrying my basic p228 as a work/home duty piece, and switched to a p229 with CT lasergrips and a light. extra weight, but more options.

 

[riverdog]

Rem 870 cruiser ready. The rack is a last-chance-to-change-your-mind sound. It is pointed at them when they hear it. It will be followed up shortly; they probably won't register the next sound. It's a safe non-stressful way to store a shotgun which allows it to be made ready with little effort.

 

[owlhoot]

This has been a more interesting thread than the vast majority, not because of the subject matter, but because several contributors were thoughtful and articulate and, for the most part, well mannered.

A great deal of time and effort goes into a well written, well considered post. So much so that I am often amazed that posters are willing to put forth that kind of effort for a generally small audience. Thank you.

 

[akodo]

I think a big part of this is the motivation of the opposition.

If a criminal is breaking into your house because he wants to take some valueables to sell or trade for crack, the sound of an armed defender will send him fleeing. Same way with a military situation, the grunt is just following orders and may not be particularly motivated, so hearing the chambering of a gun may be all he needs to 'retreat and report enemy position'

Now, you take a wifebeater, who after years of beating his wife, the woman finally leaves, and now he tracks her down, he might not believe she has the willpower to actually shoot him, hence the sound won't stop him.

Or alternatively, his rage at her for leaving him may override any fear of an armed defender being present.

Same thing with a guy hopped up on crystal meth, he might not care.

Or what about the gang member, who is coming after you for making him loose face earlier, or who if he backs down will loose face with his buddies there with him, or who needs to eliminate you as a witness, as another conviction means 3 strikes and life in prison.


There are many threats that will re-evaluate and find easier prey simply if they see a light go on, or signs of a dog being kept.

There are other threats that may not balk at these, but actually seeing a large dog, hearing the bark, or hearing a shotgun shell being chambered, and re-evaluate his choice of targets.

It was just a few weeks ago where someone related the incident of an H&K employee here in the USA being chased by bikerthugs, fired a full auto burst as a warning and had the thug STILL run at him yelling 'i am not afraid of your gun!'

If someone isn't giong to be disuaded by a full auto fire in their general direction, are they going to care if you rack your pump?

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

If someone's in your home and it's worth shooting over, it's worth shooting with surprise. Racking so a BG can hear it only gives him a chance to put a few rounds of his own towards where he heard the sound.

 

[Gary A]

an H&K employee here in the USA being chased by bikerthugs, fired a full auto burst as a warning

Is it very common for H&K employees to carry fully automatic weapons?? Doesn't that sound a bit, ah, unusual? Link to that thread? Sounds like "Mad Max".