janobles14
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- Apr 22, 2008
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spyderco civilian
What do you carry when you can't carry?
- Thread starter FranklyTodd
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papajohn
Member
Surefire G2 or 9P in a belt holster, plus a folder and an attitude. I try to look like I just killed the last guy that bothered me...........
PJ
PJ
Tuxedo.Bond
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- May 9, 2008
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- 19
I'm poor, so if I do carry something it's usually a 5 inch slide out razor. If I had a choice, and the intention is defense then I would carry a fixed blade that has no more then a 7 1/2 inch blade, is no longer then 13 inches overall and is similar to one of the following:
A double edged dagger:
Or a single edged knife:
I don't have time to be reaching into my pocket and unfolding a folded blade in a defense situation, hence the fixed blade.
If I don't intend the blade for defense then any folded blade will do.
A double edged dagger:
Or a single edged knife:
I don't have time to be reaching into my pocket and unfolding a folded blade in a defense situation, hence the fixed blade.
If I don't intend the blade for defense then any folded blade will do.
wristtwister
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- Mar 28, 2008
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- 419
45 years of martial arts training in karate, jujutsu, and Aikido and a cell phone.
When I was working out of town, I stopped at a laundry once where I was confronted by 3 young men (use the term loosely) who told me that I needed to give them my watch. When I refused, the "leader" said ..."do you know what it means that there's 3 of us?"
"Yeah", I told him... "you're going to need more than one ambulance".
WT
When I was working out of town, I stopped at a laundry once where I was confronted by 3 young men (use the term loosely) who told me that I needed to give them my watch. When I refused, the "leader" said ..."do you know what it means that there's 3 of us?"
"Yeah", I told him... "you're going to need more than one ambulance".
WT
nwilliams
Member
Oh goody an excuse to take some pictures of weapons other than guns all the time
I always carry at least two knives on me wherever I go, when I can't carry a gun its better no weapon at all.....
Depending on my mood I'll carry any combination consisting of my Spyderco Police, Kershaw Leek or Camillus Heat assisted open.
I always carry at least two knives on me wherever I go, when I can't carry a gun its better no weapon at all.....
Depending on my mood I'll carry any combination consisting of my Spyderco Police, Kershaw Leek or Camillus Heat assisted open.
Frankly,
Almost everyone on this board, regardless of the forum they frequent, carries a concealed firearm at least some of the time.
One should be careful assuming what dedicated weapon is "completely legal" in other states. I am a big fan of useful tools that can be pressed into service defensively in needed. Small flashlights definitely fit into this category.
Carrying a full-sized fixed blade for defense seems pretty silly. If you're in a place where carrying a firearm is illegal, carrying a large knife will be, as well.
John
Almost everyone on this board, regardless of the forum they frequent, carries a concealed firearm at least some of the time.
One should be careful assuming what dedicated weapon is "completely legal" in other states. I am a big fan of useful tools that can be pressed into service defensively in needed. Small flashlights definitely fit into this category.
Carrying a full-sized fixed blade for defense seems pretty silly. If you're in a place where carrying a firearm is illegal, carrying a large knife will be, as well.
John
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
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- Messages
- 13,146
If I think that there realistically *might* be trouble, and cannot carry a handgun for some reason, I carry this one:
http://www.gerber-tools.com/Gerber-Applegate-Fairbairn-Combat-5780.htm
Sometimes this one:
http://www.kershaw-knives.net/Kershaw-Ken-Onion-Spec-Bump-KS1596.htm
And occasionally this one:
http://www.crkt.com/dsrtcrsr.html
http://www.gerber-tools.com/Gerber-Applegate-Fairbairn-Combat-5780.htm
Sometimes this one:
http://www.kershaw-knives.net/Kershaw-Ken-Onion-Spec-Bump-KS1596.htm
And occasionally this one:
http://www.crkt.com/dsrtcrsr.html
TimboKhan
Member
I have taken to carrying a smallish flashlight with me lately, and I almost always carry my Fox predator II knife on me. Other than that, I basically rely on hostility and aggression, Thunder and Lightning (left and right fists, lol) and my considerable bulk to defend myself. Honestly, the knife is more for utility than defense, as I don't know the first thing about knife-fighting. The flashlight at present is used more as a fist pack and as a flashlight, but my interest in learning some kubotan techniques is pretty high.
It's pretty simple.
Unless you want to get complicated by using the light to apply pressure to spots while grappling (I don't like grappling if I can help it), you basically use the light as a hammer fist.
Face and other exposed bones are the target. If somebody grabs you, slam your fist, with light protruding, down on the bones that are exposed in their hand. Immediately bring your hand up and strike the face. If you're positioned where it's easier to strike the face, do that first, and then go for the hand if they've forgotten to let go (people often tend to "clench" under stress, even when it's the wrong move).
Think about what you carry when you can't have a weapon. I think knives are tools, but, let's assume that you're someplace where a knife will also automatically be considered a weapon. What can you have?
Water bottles.
Small flashlights.
Keys, as long as they don't look outrageous. (Kubatons may not be allowed.)
Magazines.
Of these, a large, heavy magazine would be my first choice for most defensive applications. Roll it tightly. It can be used to strike the hand or wrist of an attacker, or their face. It can also be swung, with a bowling type motion, into their solar plexus.
You may have to think outside the box. For years, I've always carried a sturdy lock on my carry-on bag on flights. Attack a lock to a belt, and you've got 3 feet of distance you can use to your advantage, especially when the attacker is armed with a plastic box cutter. I have several different lanyards made from 550 cord. These are easily explainable when you have a carabiner on one end, and keys on the other (quite useful, too, actually). I've never even been questioned about these in airports. I've carried them into places that didn't allow chains on wallets, even. Heh. Ever had a slingloading class? 550 (type 2/type 3 cord) is tough stuff.
There are only so many types of weapons. You have sharps. You have sticks. You have flexibles. You have projectiles. Spend a little time learning how to use each type of weapon, and then you'll never truly be disarmed.
John
Unless you want to get complicated by using the light to apply pressure to spots while grappling (I don't like grappling if I can help it), you basically use the light as a hammer fist.
Face and other exposed bones are the target. If somebody grabs you, slam your fist, with light protruding, down on the bones that are exposed in their hand. Immediately bring your hand up and strike the face. If you're positioned where it's easier to strike the face, do that first, and then go for the hand if they've forgotten to let go (people often tend to "clench" under stress, even when it's the wrong move).
Think about what you carry when you can't have a weapon. I think knives are tools, but, let's assume that you're someplace where a knife will also automatically be considered a weapon. What can you have?
Water bottles.
Small flashlights.
Keys, as long as they don't look outrageous. (Kubatons may not be allowed.)
Magazines.
Of these, a large, heavy magazine would be my first choice for most defensive applications. Roll it tightly. It can be used to strike the hand or wrist of an attacker, or their face. It can also be swung, with a bowling type motion, into their solar plexus.
You may have to think outside the box. For years, I've always carried a sturdy lock on my carry-on bag on flights. Attack a lock to a belt, and you've got 3 feet of distance you can use to your advantage, especially when the attacker is armed with a plastic box cutter. I have several different lanyards made from 550 cord. These are easily explainable when you have a carabiner on one end, and keys on the other (quite useful, too, actually). I've never even been questioned about these in airports. I've carried them into places that didn't allow chains on wallets, even. Heh. Ever had a slingloading class? 550 (type 2/type 3 cord) is tough stuff.
There are only so many types of weapons. You have sharps. You have sticks. You have flexibles. You have projectiles. Spend a little time learning how to use each type of weapon, and then you'll never truly be disarmed.
John
LongRider
Member
I prefer my cane over other weapons. It is never questioned as I posted on another thread a cane sends the wrong message it makes the BG think you are a defenseless disabled victim not an armed opponent. It is hidden in the open. So the element of surprise is yours. Having nailed an SOB with one I can assure you they are surprised. IMO Hooked or knobbed canes limit the canes potential as a weapon You are far better off obtaining a cane that has its handle coming straight off of the main shaft at a 90º angle like that of a tonfa or a police PR-24. Chris Koontz Offset-T Canes are a good example of a quality fighting cane his Birdshead cane is also acceptable but not as good though it is better looking. You want to be able to use the handle to grasp to block with and have a good grasp on to spin and swing with. Getting police training for a PR-24 or a course in Kendo, Kobu-do, Bo-Jutsu, Jo-Jutsu (not Jiu-Jitsu) would be very beneficial in the getting the most use of a canes weapons potential. There is a reason that fighting canes and the PR-24 are shaped they way the are with the 90º handle with some practice and experience you will quickly see why. The same as with guns get the proper tool and training than practice. I do carry a knife at all times that I can. My Kershaw is my daily do everything knife. If it ever breaks I will get me a MercWorx folder but for 12 years now it has done its job every day without fail. For hunting camping I have a Ecuadorian Chili from MercWorx that would be the ideal combat knife but to big to carry. I carry it in my car with some camping gear on occasion. I have not had good luck with pepper sprays though I understand a quality one like a Foxx does do its job. In my car I carry an eighteen inch wrench in my tool box and a fish club that I have filled with lead next to a fishing pole and a tackle. In the last year I have begun to carry a NovaTec flashlight that comes in as handy as my pocket knife. The lanyard & carabiner idea appears to be a good one that I may incorporate into my gear. But my cane is my #1 always carry anywhere tool
Carl Levitian
member
Living in Maryland I have grown used to not having a CCW option for most of my life. Instead I carry a stout walking stick (either a hickory crook top from a feed store or an Irish Blackthorn with a knoby handle) everyplace I go. Since I have some grey chin whiskers I can get by with a stout cane and not get any looks. It's always in my hand and ready, nothing to be drawn or cocked. Since I go very often into federal buildings in Washinton D.C. I don't carry anything that looks like a weapon. My edc knife is a Swiss Army knife, and does not get any attention either.
In my car stuck under the drivers side floor mat with the handle sticking out to grab, is a long narrow Snap On screw driver. I've also been known to carry a 4 inch slim Phillips screwdriver in the side pocket of my pants. Lightweight but very fast to draw. In my shirt pocket is a steel ball point pen. Often I'll have a AA mini-mag in my back pocket that has been converted to LED. It makes a handy kuboton.
In my car stuck under the drivers side floor mat with the handle sticking out to grab, is a long narrow Snap On screw driver. I've also been known to carry a 4 inch slim Phillips screwdriver in the side pocket of my pants. Lightweight but very fast to draw. In my shirt pocket is a steel ball point pen. Often I'll have a AA mini-mag in my back pocket that has been converted to LED. It makes a handy kuboton.
HAKs for discreet EDC
IF you can't carry, you can't get more discreet than an Hide-Away Knife. HAKs are custom creations that werer made by makers like Strider, Brock, Brum, Krein, and others. Some of these customs aren't available any more but they still have production models in a couple of styles. I've owned a couple a loved them all. They are great for running, outdoor hiking , etc. as they are light weight but perfect for an urban enviroment, too. They work as a neck knife or a in your pocket blade. Plus, they're one piece blades, so no folding or moving parts. Nothing spells idiot like full size KA-bar printing behind your back under your t-shirt, Should have just kept your 1911? A lot of DOD and LEO types are carrying them as back-ups to their back-ups.
Of course, I'm biased as I have a couple and recently put one up for sale.
IF you can't carry, you can't get more discreet than an Hide-Away Knife. HAKs are custom creations that werer made by makers like Strider, Brock, Brum, Krein, and others. Some of these customs aren't available any more but they still have production models in a couple of styles. I've owned a couple a loved them all. They are great for running, outdoor hiking , etc. as they are light weight but perfect for an urban enviroment, too. They work as a neck knife or a in your pocket blade. Plus, they're one piece blades, so no folding or moving parts. Nothing spells idiot like full size KA-bar printing behind your back under your t-shirt, Should have just kept your 1911? A lot of DOD and LEO types are carrying them as back-ups to their back-ups.
Of course, I'm biased as I have a couple and recently put one up for sale.
That's great, except when using one will automatically put you in jail. If you go to jail, you haven't successfully defended yourself, have you?
We are talking about what to use when you can't have a weapon. HAKs don't apply.
John
We are talking about what to use when you can't have a weapon. HAKs don't apply.
John
kBob
Member
Sorry to chime in so late.
I always try to carry my brain. As others have suggested be aware of how things not normally weapons can be used as such.
The first week of commercial air travel ( it was supprisingly lonely for the first few days as folks for some reason had a real fear of flying) I chose to travel wearing my old "NATO Boots" aka German paratrooper boots and yes they made me take them off every time I reentered a controlled area. I knew that speed lace design would come in handy.
I also carred a staineless steel cross ball point and mechanical pencil. I wore a big honking cowboy type belt buckle on a leaterh belt and trousers with elastic gussets to hold up my pants when the belt was deployed. As I had a baby with me and a wife I had a heavy carry on bag with a lonk strap. In an outside pocket I had a pair of fresh socks inside were (can't carrythem now) afew cans of baby formula and a few little water bottles. Either could have been an attention geter if thrown at very close range and dropped into a sock, well use your imagination.
I considered both cameras in their bags on shoulder straps to be expendable. Hmm some what heavy camera and spare batteries on the end of a shoulder strap what could one possibly do with those?
ANd I checked to see if the seat cushion really did come out and have staps on the back....not the best sheild, but beats nothing. ANd of course I had a good hard back book to read for the flight.
and if I have to go someplace on the ground where I can not carry a firearm or blade I try to carry a Mini mag or a knock off I like from Nodric that has a side button.
Of late I occasionally carry a cheap cane with a crook type handle. No doubt a camoflauged PR24 is preferable but hey, it's a big stick.
and maybe I can talk them to death.
-Bob Hollingsworth
I always try to carry my brain. As others have suggested be aware of how things not normally weapons can be used as such.
The first week of commercial air travel ( it was supprisingly lonely for the first few days as folks for some reason had a real fear of flying) I chose to travel wearing my old "NATO Boots" aka German paratrooper boots and yes they made me take them off every time I reentered a controlled area. I knew that speed lace design would come in handy.
I also carred a staineless steel cross ball point and mechanical pencil. I wore a big honking cowboy type belt buckle on a leaterh belt and trousers with elastic gussets to hold up my pants when the belt was deployed. As I had a baby with me and a wife I had a heavy carry on bag with a lonk strap. In an outside pocket I had a pair of fresh socks inside were (can't carrythem now) afew cans of baby formula and a few little water bottles. Either could have been an attention geter if thrown at very close range and dropped into a sock, well use your imagination.
I considered both cameras in their bags on shoulder straps to be expendable. Hmm some what heavy camera and spare batteries on the end of a shoulder strap what could one possibly do with those?
ANd I checked to see if the seat cushion really did come out and have staps on the back....not the best sheild, but beats nothing. ANd of course I had a good hard back book to read for the flight.
and if I have to go someplace on the ground where I can not carry a firearm or blade I try to carry a Mini mag or a knock off I like from Nodric that has a side button.
Of late I occasionally carry a cheap cane with a crook type handle. No doubt a camoflauged PR24 is preferable but hey, it's a big stick.
and maybe I can talk them to death.
-Bob Hollingsworth
weisse52
Member
I always have a folder with me, sometimes a Benchmade 4 inch blade, sometimes a small Mel Pardue 2 inch. I carry these even when I am armed. I also like a cane. I had some injuries in the Navy so I got the scars to prove I need it. Nothing fancy, actually the one the Navy gave me back in 72. And I have even "tried it out", works great!
In my Jeep I keep a Ball Peen hammer. Completely legal, and quite deadly. Just ask the Hell Angles.
As to pepper spray. Use to carry it till I had to use it. BG never even slowed up. The cane did work much better. As to the gel and foam pepper sprays, for what it is worth, my CCW instructor (OHIO police officer) says that the BG's have developed a trick when it is sprayed on them. They try and get you in a bear hug so it is on you and them. Not to sure if it is true, but after having OC fail me I guess it is possible.
In my Jeep I keep a Ball Peen hammer. Completely legal, and quite deadly. Just ask the Hell Angles.
As to pepper spray. Use to carry it till I had to use it. BG never even slowed up. The cane did work much better. As to the gel and foam pepper sprays, for what it is worth, my CCW instructor (OHIO police officer) says that the BG's have developed a trick when it is sprayed on them. They try and get you in a bear hug so it is on you and them. Not to sure if it is true, but after having OC fail me I guess it is possible.
what do you carry when you can't carry
My state has laws that are very similar when it comes to firearms and any other weapons. If you can't carry a firearm then it is most likely illegal to carry any other weapon. With that said I usually have a CRKT M16-13M folder on me at all times. I am a heating and air technician so it is not uncommon for me to have a screwdriver and set of needlenose pliers in my possession too. a thin flat head screw driver or thin phillips can serve as a formidable yet legal icepick.
My state has laws that are very similar when it comes to firearms and any other weapons. If you can't carry a firearm then it is most likely illegal to carry any other weapon. With that said I usually have a CRKT M16-13M folder on me at all times. I am a heating and air technician so it is not uncommon for me to have a screwdriver and set of needlenose pliers in my possession too. a thin flat head screw driver or thin phillips can serve as a formidable yet legal icepick.
OldCowHand
Member
jungleroy: > A stainless steel Parker pen of course.
+1 on that. Literally -- I carry two.
Most of the time I'll be toting numerous other items that could also be improvised into weapons in a pinch: 2AA LED Maglite, Swiss army knife, small Space Pen, small coin purse, belt ...
... and generally a few items that I view as tools for most purposes, but which would be more likely to be viewed as weapons if I had to use them: small fixed-blade knife (generally a CRKT Plan B, but occasionally Ka-Bar's small Law Enforcement edition with the canted handle, or the always-useful SOG Mini-Pentagon with its fine blade on one side and serrated on the other), maybe an assisted-opener like a Gerber FAST Draw.
All that said, the principal place where I would be unable to carry would be out of state, so I pretty much have to maintain situational awareness, stick to the improvised weapons and hope for the best.
+1 on that. Literally -- I carry two.
Most of the time I'll be toting numerous other items that could also be improvised into weapons in a pinch: 2AA LED Maglite, Swiss army knife, small Space Pen, small coin purse, belt ...
... and generally a few items that I view as tools for most purposes, but which would be more likely to be viewed as weapons if I had to use them: small fixed-blade knife (generally a CRKT Plan B, but occasionally Ka-Bar's small Law Enforcement edition with the canted handle, or the always-useful SOG Mini-Pentagon with its fine blade on one side and serrated on the other), maybe an assisted-opener like a Gerber FAST Draw.
All that said, the principal place where I would be unable to carry would be out of state, so I pretty much have to maintain situational awareness, stick to the improvised weapons and hope for the best.
Boom-stick
Member
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2005
- Messages
- 872
My WHOLE country is an NPE
Therefore the light I carry is for illuminating the darkness in the heart of man
(215 lumens does a lot of illuminating!!)
My Top popper key ring is for opening bottles in an emergency.
The Mil-Tac TDI pen I carry because it was a present from my wife.
And the 10oz custom leather 'sap' shaped object is for spanking my girlfiend with, so for christ's sake don't tell the wife!!
Along with various training over the years in Boxing, Judo, Combatives etc and more recently training in AMOK! and with the Dog Brothers, coupled with a bad attitude and being generally pi$$ed off with life, I feel I'm better equipped than most on this God forsaken Island.
Rant Over
Therefore the light I carry is for illuminating the darkness in the heart of man
(215 lumens does a lot of illuminating!!)
My Top popper key ring is for opening bottles in an emergency.
The Mil-Tac TDI pen I carry because it was a present from my wife.
And the 10oz custom leather 'sap' shaped object is for spanking my girlfiend with, so for christ's sake don't tell the wife!!
Along with various training over the years in Boxing, Judo, Combatives etc and more recently training in AMOK! and with the Dog Brothers, coupled with a bad attitude and being generally pi$$ed off with life, I feel I'm better equipped than most on this God forsaken Island.
Rant Over
ashtxsniper
Member
When Im not allowed to carry I usually just find a smaller more concealable handgun and be extra careful. I always carry a Spyderco Endura 4.
I'm virtually never without a knife, 99% of the time it is a Spyderco Native that I'm very fond of. Before that it was a Benchmade 940 which I funny enough like less than the Spyderco. My general "knife fighting" plan is that if I ever need it I'll hold it in a reverse grip and punch like crazy. (keep in mind, I have no formal training, so I think this will be the most idiot proof and effective method) If I should be lucky enough to trap an arm, leg etc. I can easily cut tendons in that grip to render the appendage useless. I've been looking for a good stout pen though, this thread has given me several good options! Also, I'm planning on picking up a "lil loco" from Shiv Works. To go with that, I really need a tiny bright flashlight.
hands, feet, steel toe boots, cheap folder knife, sheffield folding razor knife (it's a tool), wallet chain, keys, pen, 44 inch belt, I found that a solid watch worn on the inside of the wrist works well.
awareness, experience, attitude, and the "Don't mess with me" look
I do ok
awareness, experience, attitude, and the "Don't mess with me" look
I do ok
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