What makes a shotgun so much better for home defense than a 5.56 semi auto?

[JLStorm]

I am curious, after reading about spread patterns especially in relatively close quarters, it seems like its a toss up between a shotgun and a small caliber semi auto rifle.

Pros for the shotgun:
less aiming at distances over 2 - 3 yards where the spread patter widens.
more likely to stop in one shot
intimidating sound (pump only)
less likely to over penatrate

Pros for 223/556 semi auto rifle:
quicker follow up shots if needed
higher ammo capacity
quicker to reload
longer range for both in home and property defense against both humans and animals
more easy to fire because no pumping action is required



Anyway, if you had to have one over the other for home and property defense, I dont see why the shotgun always seems to be the clear cut choice. I also havent decided which I like better for the job, its good to have both, but which do you use as your primary HD gun?

 

[jester5167]

The problem as I see it with a 5.56 HD Rifle is not only are you shooting the bad guy but you may be putting rounds into your neighbors house as well. That and aiming at 2am with the squinty eyes is a little rough. In the end it all comes down to personal preference but my mossberg 590 and glock 19 are my primary.

 

[budney]

Yup. Over-penetration.

 

[Silvanus]

Isn't 00 buckshot a lot more effective than any kind of 5.56, too?

 

[taliv]

jlstorm, what shotgun ammo are you basing those assumptions on?

 

[JLStorm]

Isn't 00 buckshot a lot more effective than any kind of 5.56, too?

It seems that at ranges under 15 yards it is, but at close range it can be just as hard to aim as a rifle and cycling the pump action is much harder than simply pulling the trigger again.

But yes at close range, more stopping power with less risk of over penetration

 

[Rumble]

According to the good old Box o' Truth, shotguns penetrate less than a 5.56 round, but in this case, "less than" means "three walls" instead of six.

Of course, this is assuming that you miss the bad guy and hit the wall clean. I know little about the 5.56, but I assume it may be more likely to go through a person and then through other stuff than buckshot.

 

[JLStorm]

I have read a few articles regarding the pros and cons of the shotgun, they all reference 00 buckshot I believe.

 

[Zundfolge]

FWIW I seem to recall Massad Ayoob saying a semi auto 5.56mm/.223 was the best home defense weapon overall.


I believe this is the article I'm referring to http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_151_25/ai_70380696

All that said, THIS is MY HD weapon

so don't be comin' around here uninvited after dark.

 

[kungfuhippie]

Zundfolge-that is an awesome gun. You know how I can tell-I can't buy it here in California.

 

[BigRobT]

I dunno, my winchester super X2 is semi-auto and although it may only hold five rounds, it'll zip them all out in half a second (according to the Winchester site) Couple that with my H&K USP(C) in 40 S&W, I feel pretty comfortable.

 

[crebralfix]

The pattern does not widen like you think at 2-3 yards. It's still one ball of shot.

Why do people think they don't need to aim or "aim as well"? I suggest you pattern your shotgun at different ranges.

In terms of "over penetration"...what do you mean and with which shotgun ammo type? Slug?

If it's not strong enough to yield 12-16" of penetration in flesh, then it's not strong enough to do the job. This means it will penetrate wallboard. Even if it does go through, that can happen with any round (would passing through the earlobe count?)

 

[Fred Fuller]

Well, let's see...

12 gauge = .729

5.56 = .223

.729 - .223= .506

I'll take that extra half inch in bore diameter any day for close range antipersonnel use, thanks. That plus the fact that I have more trigger time on a pump gun than on anything else I own pretty well clinches it for me. YMMV of course.

lpl/nc

 

[GigaBuist]

Let's see...

Prices:
--------------
Pump Shotgun: $300ish.
AR-15: $1000ish.

Uses:
--------------
Pump Shotgun: Birds, varmints, deer, hogs?, clays, home defense.
AR-15: Varmints at a distance, home defense, stroking it lovingly while you watch Blackhawk Down.

I think there's a price vs. performance ratio thing going on.

 

[MICKPORNO]

i guess if the house is 100-200 plus yards long and you plan to be shooting the full length of the house then the .223 might be better....but my house ain't near that and the saiga 12 will do just fine i'm sure...

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

Has anybody here shot an 18" 12 gauge indoors? Just wondering if it's in the same territory as a 5.56. The AR hurts my ears outdoors without hearing protection. I know hearing is the least of your concerns in that situation but is a shot gun more or less disorienting to shoot than a shotgun inside?
I think an ideal HD weapon would be a suppressed SBR AR, although now you are talking $2,000 after stamps instead of $300 for a shotgun.

AR-15: ...stroking it lovingly while you watch Blackhawk Down.

Oh good, I'm not the only one that does that!

 

[Vern Humphrey]

less aiming at distances over 2 - 3 yards where the spread patter widens.

No. At 2-3 yards, the pattern will only be about an inch or two in diameter, depending on the choke.

But shotguns are designed to be pointed, not aimed, and hence are good choices for low-light, short-range use.

 

[Biker]

I choose my 870 over my Bushmaster for HD simply because having fired both indoors with no hearing protection, the 5.56 is less disorienting (to me) than the 12G.

Biker

 

[taliv]

cons for a shotgun, as i see them, compared to AR15:

>relatively long barrels. easy to point for skeet, but not so easy indoors
>you can't suppress them. silencer on the AR makes it MUCH more appropriate indoors
>less capacity and not as easy to reload. not a big deal for HD
>can't do medium or long distance. not a big deal for HD

 

[atk]

JLStorm,

Your comparison doesn't seem quite on the money. It seems like you're assuming a pump, tube fed shotgun, but there's (as shown in other posts) semi-auto shotguns that are magazine fed.

Also, as mentioned, there's the consideration that the pattern doesn't widen that much. IIRC, the basic estimate is 1 inch per 10 yards.

Further, the "more intimidating sound" argument is highly suspect. Is there any study that has ever indicated that criminals are likely to be intimidated by the sound of a shotgun being pumped? I would think that the sound of any gun firing, combined with either the buzzing of a near miss, or the impact of a hit, will be much more intimidating, and much more effective.

This would seem to change your comparison to:

Pros for the shotgun:
more likely to stop in one shot
less likely to over penetrate

Pros for 223/556 semi auto rifle:
higher ammo capacity
longer range for both in home and property defense against both humans and animals

Then, you need to consider your specific circumstances. If your yard is enormous, your walls are reinforced (or you live alone), over penetration doesn't really matter. Are you expecting to need to shoot very far with that shotgun? If so, why not have two weapons - the shotgun for in-home defense, and a rifle for shooting longer distances?

 

[Baba Louie]

00 buckshot... 12 pellets (2-3/4" shell) = some trauma
#4 buckshot... 27 pellets (2-3/4" shell) = some trauma
5.56... 1 bullet = some trauma

I think being hit by any of the above would be enough to cause me to quickly rethink my nefarious ways if I was a goblin and got hit center mass with any of the afore-mentioned... 'course, I'm a wuss and would even cringe if I was shot with a lowly .22CB more than likely... which could be why I chose the building design profession in lieu of criminal B&E.

I think either one you're GTG. That pesky over-penetration thing could cost ya something in the long run/aftermath, specially if someone you don't intend gets punctured. I bet neighbors hate it when that happens.

 

[Specialized]

My primary at home is a .45 ACP handgun. Too many places in my home where swinging any kind of legal long gun would be too limiting from a motion perspective. The weapon isn't effective unless you have the skills, the time, and the maneuverability to use it.

I can point-shoot accurately out to 7 yards, which is a longer distance than most of the angles and shot paths in my house. My barricade position is well-protected and provides outstanding hard cover and concealment, but is also limited to a handgun in terms of maneuverability.

I have another (quite legal) surprise within reach in my home for any unwanted guests, but all data besides its existence are classified.

 

[JLStorm]

Do the magazine fed shotguns load reliably on a consistent basis? Who makes them?

 

[Aries-]

id go with a shotgun i think. wont likely go through your intended target, can get them shorter than most .223's out there. (dont need to be walking around the house with a huge gun for someone to grab as you come around a corner) even if you hit your target with a .223 its going to likely go through at close range like in your house.

for something other than shotgun i think id go with a Beretta Cx4 Storm in .40 S&W. its shorter, has places on it for a flashlight and laser sight, also looks much easyer to hold if it gets grabbed.

but there is also if i know there is only one. my 175lb horton Crossbow. good penitration. wont go to far through a wall. and if its seen will likely give the intruder the scare of his life.

 

[Specialized]

Further, the "more intimidating sound" argument is highly suspect. Is there any study that has ever indicated that criminals are likely to be intimidated by the sound of a shotgun being pumped?

While there are many documented instances of criminals running from the sound of a pump shotgun being cycled, I wouldn't do it because 1) it's a bluff of sorts, or at the very least a warning, and 2) it takes away any element of surprise or tactical advantage I would have. Criminals aren't the smartest bulbs in the pack, and while you or I would run from that sound, a lot of them aren't smart enough to do the same. It would waste time and possibly give away position and/or an indication of what I was armed with. To me it's no different than a warning shot. I'd rather the first thing they hear from me come after I'm in a position where I have to fire, and then I'd like for it to get there at at least 900 fps.