Rob96
Member
I gave you reasons on why the 1911 is the best self defense pistol, for me. I also stated I am not blindly biased against other pistols. Personally I think these kinds of threads are just breeding grounds for flame wars.
I am not a fan of 1911s.
- Thread starter albanian
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I gave you reasons on why the 1911 is the best self defense pistol, for me. I also stated I am not blindly biased against other pistols. Personally I think these kinds of threads are just breeding grounds for flame wars.
That thread reminds me:
So you advocate carrying a gun with NO manual safety over a gun with 2 manual safties because ONE of those safeties could theoretically come off? (which would still leave the grip safety)
BTW the the only weapons I've had manual safties accidentally swith to fire were an Issue M-16 (782 gear does it sometimes) and the Beretta M-9, never a 1911.
This still leaves the fact that all these things you guys say, like "the 1911 is inferior for carry because it has a SA trigger" is personal preference, how many times does it have to be said? We like the SA, so then it is not a bad choice for US!!!
So you advocate carrying a gun with NO manual safety over a gun with 2 manual safties because ONE of those safeties could theoretically come off? (which would still leave the grip safety)
BTW the the only weapons I've had manual safties accidentally swith to fire were an Issue M-16 (782 gear does it sometimes) and the Beretta M-9, never a 1911.
This still leaves the fact that all these things you guys say, like "the 1911 is inferior for carry because it has a SA trigger" is personal preference, how many times does it have to be said? We like the SA, so then it is not a bad choice for US!!!
Mute
Member
You want reasons:
1. 1911 has the best trigger. Period. You might not think so but you'd be in the minority.
2. Its relatively flat profile makes for very comfortable carry and easy concealability.
3. It points more naturally than any pistol I've ever shot. You think it doesn't. But it seems again that you're in the minority.
BTW, your opinion that having a safety is bad school is again your opinion and wrong. Just about every long gun on the planet has a safety. Does that mean long guns are "bad school?" Again, you're entitled to your opinion but don't mistake it for cold hard facts.
As to SAs being outdated. Again just your opinion. It seems most handguns nowadays are made to the lowest common denominator. IOW it's meant for those who are not "gun people" and therefore don't take time to master the characteristics of particular guns. I would say that that is more likely the reason for the proliferation of all these SA/DA and safe-action pistols rather then their superiority to the SA. But then these are just my opinions.
1. 1911 has the best trigger. Period. You might not think so but you'd be in the minority.
2. Its relatively flat profile makes for very comfortable carry and easy concealability.
3. It points more naturally than any pistol I've ever shot. You think it doesn't. But it seems again that you're in the minority.
BTW, your opinion that having a safety is bad school is again your opinion and wrong. Just about every long gun on the planet has a safety. Does that mean long guns are "bad school?" Again, you're entitled to your opinion but don't mistake it for cold hard facts.
As to SAs being outdated. Again just your opinion. It seems most handguns nowadays are made to the lowest common denominator. IOW it's meant for those who are not "gun people" and therefore don't take time to master the characteristics of particular guns. I would say that that is more likely the reason for the proliferation of all these SA/DA and safe-action pistols rather then their superiority to the SA. But then these are just my opinions.
Black Majik
Member
Can you imagine if rifles became DAO and/or without a safety to push?!
I'd quit shooting.
adrianleewelch
Member
I may be getting in here a little late but, I own 2 glocks and 2 1911'2, There was just a recall on my glock 36 carry gun because glock says it can discharge on its own, thats spooky to me ! I love the glocks but I also love the 1911's, My wifes gun gets fired 3-400 times a week, It is a caspian frame and slide, wilson springs etc... anyway except for when the recoil spring or magazine spring are completely worn out it never ever never ever fails. So with new springs I would trust my family's life to it for the first 3000 rounds, plus my wife wont blow her leg off with the 2 safety's, also you have to practice alot, have you ever shot a glock 600 times in on day, your hand will hurt like hell, a 1911 with hogue grips is like butter !! Anyway I do love glocks as well, just stating that I dont think there is any downfall to a 1911, nor a glock if thats what you prefer, just get whatever you like and shoot the barrel out of it !!
DirksterG30
Member
This is all your opinion. Could you please use more fact in your arguments and less opinion? The fact is, a lot of shooters do better with a consistent SA trigger pull than mastering two different trigger pulls. I know I do. One reason the 1911 is widely used in competition shooting is the SA trigger. I think this same attribute makes it a good choice for a self-defense pistol. If consistent trigger pull is not a big deal, why are DAO guns -Glock, XD, Kahr so popular? Even HK & SIG now make DAO guns.
This is called a 'straw man' argument - misrepresent your opponent's position to make your position seem stronger than it actually is. It's been said a number of times in this thread - not all 1911 lovers "hate change or improvements" - a lot of us here have modern pistols in our arsenal as well. My 1911 is not the same gun our GIs used in WWII - extended beavertail, 4" barrel, tritium night sights, ambidextrous safety, stainless steel... It is based on the original design, but with some modern enhancements.
I think a lot of the responses have given you good reasons. Many people here even took the time to address your specific points in a thoughtful and fair-minded way. And who is claiming that the 1911 is superior to anything else? You persist with the old straw man. Guaranteed, there are not a lot of converts to the 'mindless fold of followers' here. While I think John Moses Browning was a genius (and not just because of the 1911), I can assure you there is no JMB altar in my house.
Occasionally, I take a Sig, a 1911, and one of my revolvers, and I practice a drill where I imagine I'm standing in the bedroom facing a BG who is standing in the doorway and heading my way. Now, I like and shoot my other handguns just fine , but for me, nothing feels safer, faster, or more controllable than doing this drill with the 1911. Period.
ojibweindian
Member
I find my Springer GI very comfortable to carry and to shoot. My thumb safety has never disengaged.
bountyhunter
member
Actually, the LDA is neither SA or DA in any sense of those terms that rational people would agree on..... I think Doctor Frankenstein would scratch his head and ask:
"What were you thinking?"
If he was a gun maker.
bountyhunter
member
A lot of people (I'm one) love the 1911 for a shooter but would never bet thier life on one..... they are often cranky feeders and are notorious for not feeding anything but "ball" nose ammo..... and defense loads always have some oddly shaped hollow point with six cross cuts on the tip that just love to dig into feed ramps and jam.
I like the 1911 and shoot them often, but the gun that you bet your life on should have ".357 magnum" stamped on the barrel, "SW" engraved on the side, and a round cylinder where the bullets go in......
All BS aside, I still have yet to see a round that ends gunfights with more authority and finality than the 125 gr .357 magnum.
Quentin
Member
Quote: "No second strike capabilty like a true DA has. If you get a dud, pulling the trigger a second time does not help. The only problems I have had with high quality factory ammo were hard primers or too soft of hammer strikes. Every time a second pull of the trigger fired the round."
Well, in the unlikely event this happens you can recock the hammer. Shouldn't take much more time than pulling a DA trigger again. If this really bothers you, you could carry a DA revolver so you can actually get rid of the dud faster. (And pray that a hangfire doesn't blow up in your face!)
Put me squarely in the Pro-1911 camp. I like all my handguns but my stock Series 70 always fires when I want it to. And I still trust it today. Nothing wrong with using newer designs if they work for you but don't automatically discount what has worked well for over 90 years!
Well, in the unlikely event this happens you can recock the hammer. Shouldn't take much more time than pulling a DA trigger again. If this really bothers you, you could carry a DA revolver so you can actually get rid of the dud faster. (And pray that a hangfire doesn't blow up in your face!)
Put me squarely in the Pro-1911 camp. I like all my handguns but my stock Series 70 always fires when I want it to. And I still trust it today. Nothing wrong with using newer designs if they work for you but don't automatically discount what has worked well for over 90 years!
I thought LDA stood for light double action, but maybe I'm wrong....
Also, while supposedly older GI models have trouble feeding hollow points I think this is a common misconception when dealing with modern 1911s. At least my 1911s feed anything I feed them from wolf to gold dot.
Also, while supposedly older GI models have trouble feeding hollow points I think this is a common misconception when dealing with modern 1911s. At least my 1911s feed anything I feed them from wolf to gold dot.
nitesite
Member
That statement has been backed up by such agencies as the Indianapolis Police Department, Kentucky State Troopers and the Texas State Police. They called it "the magic bullet" or "the lightning bolt".
When I leave home, either a 1911 or an L/N Frame Smith&Wesson .357 Magnum loaded w/ R357M1 goes with me.
I guess this thread's originator wouldn't care for either of my choices. That's okay with me.
It seems there are two kinds of shooters. Those who fret about whatever some gun rag or keyboard commando proclaims is right or wrong with this or that or those of us who find out what works for us. Trying to convince me that my choice is wrong is an entire waste of your time and mine. It is equally pointless for me to explain why your conclusions are wrong even though I know they are.
What matters, what truly matters, is that whether it's responding to a bump in the night, stalking a deer or chasing the ever elusive clay target is that YOU have confidence in the equipment you are using. The only way to become confidence is to experiment, take instruction and practice. After you are confident any other opinion just doesn't matter at all.
What matters, what truly matters, is that whether it's responding to a bump in the night, stalking a deer or chasing the ever elusive clay target is that YOU have confidence in the equipment you are using. The only way to become confidence is to experiment, take instruction and practice. After you are confident any other opinion just doesn't matter at all.
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There were lots of perfectly good reasons given. They were simply ignored.
Don't ALL handgun designs have shortcomings of some nature?!? I haven't yet found the "perfect" handgun (one company claims theirs is indeed perfect, but we won't get into that). You choose one based on what attributes are the most important to you, and what has design "shortcomings" that you can live with. I can easily forgive the 1911's weight because it enhances the ability to make repeat shots accurately. Firing the alloy-framed versions proved that to me, as a result I prefer the steel frames (even for CCW). If you're too lazy to wear a decent supportive holster and belt then a featherweight pistol is obviously your cup of tea. Just quit knocking other people's choices.
Shootcraps
Member
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Dsk is right. You buys what you likes.
Albanian, I don't normally engage in "p!$$ing contests" on gun forums, but here goes anyway;
I have to openly question your judgement on 1911s (yes, I love mine alot). This is based one of your other posts on this forum about your Star BM 9mm, as follows;
Best cheap gun, cheap ammo combos?
I have a Star BM 9mm that I paid about $160 for and it very accurate. It really like CCI Blazer aluminum cased ammo as well. This is the cheapest ammo I can get and it shoots it like it was made for it. I can shoot this gun/ammo combo in a match and the gun will outshoot me every time.
At 25 feet, it will put every shot into the SAME hole. This is not a joke. It may be a slightly enlarged hole but more or less, the same 9mm hole. This is from a rest of course.
Based on the fact that the Star is really just a Spanish 1911 knockoff, why do you then dis real 1911s?. My friend had one of these Star 9mms once and he nor I could hit a barn door with it from inside the barn. We can both hold our own with our 1911s. BTW, if you can't make a ragged hole with damn near any handgun at 25 ft., you need to keep practicing until you can.
Flame on if you must!
I have to openly question your judgement on 1911s (yes, I love mine alot). This is based one of your other posts on this forum about your Star BM 9mm, as follows;
Best cheap gun, cheap ammo combos?
I have a Star BM 9mm that I paid about $160 for and it very accurate. It really like CCI Blazer aluminum cased ammo as well. This is the cheapest ammo I can get and it shoots it like it was made for it. I can shoot this gun/ammo combo in a match and the gun will outshoot me every time.
At 25 feet, it will put every shot into the SAME hole. This is not a joke. It may be a slightly enlarged hole but more or less, the same 9mm hole. This is from a rest of course.
Based on the fact that the Star is really just a Spanish 1911 knockoff, why do you then dis real 1911s?. My friend had one of these Star 9mms once and he nor I could hit a barn door with it from inside the barn. We can both hold our own with our 1911s. BTW, if you can't make a ragged hole with damn near any handgun at 25 ft., you need to keep practicing until you can.
Flame on if you must!
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Nothing at all wrong with that. I for example can't figure out what other people see in SIG's. But I'm certainly not going to go insulting people by saying they are just blind fools adhering to the SIG cult, or some variation therof. All that kind of talk does is incite a flame war. There's nothing there to encourage any meaningful discussion.
BluesBear
member
For many many years Star, in Spain, produced 1911 pattern pistols in various variations, sizes and calibers.
The Star model B was a fine 1911 knockoff. and the Super-Star in .38 Super gave Colt a run for their money in sales.
The Star model B was a fine 1911 knockoff. and the Super-Star in .38 Super gave Colt a run for their money in sales.
Quentin
Member
Maybe Albanian's Star has a double action conversion kit?
Good catch, Berg01! I think you're on to something... But I won't say anything bad about Stars since I have a nice 25 year old PD in 45ACP. Also, years ago a friend had a sloppy old big frame Star 45 that was reliable though not terribly accurate. He got it cheap and felt it was worth the money.
Good catch, Berg01! I think you're on to something... But I won't say anything bad about Stars since I have a nice 25 year old PD in 45ACP. Also, years ago a friend had a sloppy old big frame Star 45 that was reliable though not terribly accurate. He got it cheap and felt it was worth the money.
Hey I don't want to come off like some raving lunatic on a persecution binge, but If a guy wants to make a 1911 argument (and these arguments will be made!) its good to see a consistant argument made.
When my friend had his Star BM, the thing rattled like a tambourine, but that doesn't mean that these guns are all bad. It just means that my friend and I didn't have a positive experience with this one.
One more thing; my SW1911 would not be my first choice for a CCW, and I don't use it for that purpose. But there are many examples of 1911s that serve the CCW purpose very well, and given the opportunity, I absolutely would use a compact 1911 for CCW.
When my friend had his Star BM, the thing rattled like a tambourine, but that doesn't mean that these guns are all bad. It just means that my friend and I didn't have a positive experience with this one.
One more thing; my SW1911 would not be my first choice for a CCW, and I don't use it for that purpose. But there are many examples of 1911s that serve the CCW purpose very well, and given the opportunity, I absolutely would use a compact 1911 for CCW.
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