I am not a fan of 1911s.

[kentucky_smith]

That's funny, I bought a cheap Rock Island GI and it's a shooter out of the box for $300.

Dad's gold cup doesn't do too bad either.

And i bought a CZ 40B for the 1911 grip angle.

happily sold a glock 17, that thing seemed strange in the hands.

 

[BamBam-31]

I have lots of different kinds of pistols. Truly, they're all very accurate pistols (even my Walther P1) if I do my part. Only thing is, the triggers and ergonomics are all different, and sometimes that throws me off a bit.

My P7M8 is wonderfully accurate AFTER I've shot about 50 rounds through it to re-acquaint myself with the trigger pull. Although not as drastic, the same applies to my CZ's, Glocks, BHP, Sig's, etc. After a few shots, I'm good to go with all of them.

The only type of pistol that I shoot well all the time, even cold, is the 1911 platform. (Oh, and revolvers, too, but that's for a different forum, eh?) If I had to hit a quarter-sized target at 50 ft. cold, the first pistol I'd reach for (aside from .22's w/ Ultradots ) would be my Springfield 1911 w/ Bar-Sto barrel. It's just a money gun. The bore axis and grip angle are ideal for me--it sits low and comfortably in my hands and points very, very naturally. And the trigger's to die for, man, believe me. Gun practically shoots itself.

I'm not saying the knocks against the 1911 platform you listed aren't valid. Yes, they can be expensive. Yes, they're heavy. Yes, they only hold half the number of rounds Wondernines hold.

For me, however, if I'm limited to one platform only, I'd pick the 1911 all the way. It shoots best for me, and in the end, that's all that really matters. JMHO, YMMV, USSR, YMCA, etc.

 

[dsk]

There a few Marines who flat out insist on using 1911's as their PDW's, to the point where they held onto 500 of them even after the Beretta was supposed to be their service weapon. I guess somebody failed to convince them that they'd be better off with a plastic-framed wonderpistol. Somebody also forgot to tell LAPD's SWAT and the FBI's Hostage Rescue Team they're using the wrong weapon as well.

 

[TimboKhan]

I got a new Ultra Carry for $630

Well, you got a good deal then, because normally they sell for more around $750.00 or so. I don't have a problem with 1911's per se, but I do think they are far, far too expensive. Again, 1911's are fine guns, and deserve the reputation they have. However, because they are so popular right now, the prices are inflated. If you have the money to spend on a Kimber or a Wilson or a Baer, then more power to you, and enjoy your gun. Just don't try and justify the price paid for it to me. In todays world of CNC machining and better, cheaper materials, there is just no good reason why you should have to pay up to $2500.00 for a pistol that really isn't any better (and in some respects worse) than the original save for vastly superior sights and a beavertail. This is why I will be looking very, very hard at the Taurus. Hell, that thing has Heinie sights on it, and because Taurus manufactured everything in house (including the sights. From what I understand, Dick Heinie personally did quality control inspections before he would let Taurus use his name), and its gonna retail for somewhere around $500-650. I know the people that continue to insist Taurus are sub-par guns will come out in droves with any number of reasons as to why that gun will fail, and your entitled to your opinion, even if you have shot it as much as I have, which is not at all. However, even if the Taurus itself proves to be a so-so gun, at least it will have the effect of showing people that a premium 1911 doesn't have to cost a fortune.

The other thing is that as a group, 1911 owners seem to be incapable of admitting anything else is good. Sure, something like grip angle is subjective, as are a number of other factors. However, if you strip away the subjective and look at design, believe it or not 1911 fans, there are other really, really good guns out there. Look, the basic goal of any gun is for it to go bang when the trigger is pulled. We happen to insist for quality purposes that when it goes bang, it does so in a consistent, accurate manner, and there are many, many guns that fulfill this criteria, and while the 1911 has done it for longer than most, that doesn't mean that it is better, it just means that it has had more time to do it. You can't discount another design simply because it hasn't been around as long. Hell, the basic design of my P90 has been around for 20 years now. If it was gonna be craptacular, wouldn't we know by now?

As far as the military argument goes, I think most soldiers like the M9 just fine, or at least I know most of the Marines did when I was still on active duty. The problem isn't the GUN, its the CARTRIDGE, and you can bet the farm that the average soldier wants to ditch the 9mm in favor of the .45. If we do happen to go back to the 1911 for this purpose, I have no problem with that, although I don't want 1911's that are overly tight and particular about what they eat in the hands of American troops. Thats the thing that people seem to forget about the 1911: the reputation that the 1911 has was earned by a gun that was loose, forgiving and not especially accurate, although it was accurate enough to get the job done. This is a far cry from guns so tight you break a sweat racking the slide and guns that lock up at the first sign of not being diligently cleaned. Think I am exaggerating? Well, I am about the sweating, but you try and tell me that an old military issue 1911 won't run longer without cleaning than a new Wilson, especially when you factor in the conditions of the field (mud, sand, frost, water etc..).... You can say it, but line the two up sometime and replicate those conditions and see which one works and which one doesn't. Also, use cartridges randomly, mixed up from a bucket. Don't just use the ones you know will work. I would put money down that the old Military 1911, with its rattly parts and craptacular sights will take the premium gun down in less than a 1000 rounds.

Now, this rant may make it seem like I hate 1911's, and I want to very clearly say that I do not. In fact, in a post that I made a couple of weeks ago, I said one of my dreams was to put a 1911 together myself, with the features and finish that I want, let alone the fact that I said that I am interesting in the Taurus 1911 when it comes out. What I am most definitly saying is that because they are so overly popular right now, the 1911 has been elevated to something its not. It is not the perfect handgun, it is overpriced, 1911 + Tight does not necessarily = good gun, and there are other, perfectly acceptable, if not "better", choices out there depending on individual needs. Thats all I am trying to say.

 

[Animal]

I agree, many 1911s are overpriced. I disagree though that 1911 owners dont like other guns. I have a p99 walther that I love. Sigs and glocks are excellent weapons too, but for ME I like 1911s...


$630 is an average price around here for the blued no frills UCII

 

[45auto]

I guess it depends on how you hold the gun if you think the 1911 has a high bore axis.

My thumb, on the safety, is on the bore line and my index finger(trigger) is just below the slide/bbl. I'm not sure you can get mich lower than that...perhaps. Maybe Glock, but splitting hairs at that point.

Agreed, lot's of 1911 are high priced but if you want adjustable sights, night sights, checkering, wonder finishes, stainless, ambi safeties...you pay!
But, you can still buy a good "GI" model for less than $500, "Loaded" models in the $650-$700 range. Given the price of Glocks, it seems to be fair.

The Taurus better be in the $500 range to sell IMHO. It's the "forged frame/slide" and all cast/MIM small parts routine. We have that already with Kimber and Springfield. It's the small parts that kill you. And, I'm not against MIM if done well! Don't pick the low bidder.

At least they didn't make it look like a Kimber...smart

 

[sm]

Gun Fit & Confidence

Always come back to these no matter what Platform(s) one like, or dislikes.

If one cannot access controls, MOAs, especially under stress, it is not the best platform for THEM.

If one does not have condfidence in a platform, or caliber - it is NOT the best Platform for THEM.

Yes I have my Preferences - For ME. One is indeed a Bone Stock Gov't Model of 1911. Another is the K frame. Always been MY Preferences since I was a wee pup.

The reality is, I don't want folks meddlin' in my affairs. I figure folks don't want me meddlin' in theirs.

In teaching shooters, I started off with safety, the correct basics and had a variety of platforms and calibers for THEM to learn on , and determine for themselves what worked best. Not what daddy, hubby, or anyone else "said", they needed to understand and actually shoot the various guns to make a determination.

Now we had some Folks that had to Choose from a small "Dept Allowed" approved list. Usually Model 10/64, Keltec P-11, RugerDAO in 9mm.. and something else- I forget.

One Armored Car company - said you can use anything you want - as long as it is a Model 10, 4", and had LRN ammo.

So we trained these according to Dept dictates.

Many of the elderly and infirmed, found the tip-up Beretta's In 32ACP and .380 best for THEM.

Awareness and training is the key.

 

[DirksterG30]

The other thing is that as a group, 1911 owners seem to be incapable of admitting anything else is good.

I don't know what group of 1911 owners you're talking about, but I don't think it's this group. It seems that on this forum, most 1911 fans appreciate, own & shoot other types of pistols. Personally, I am also a huge fan of CZ's, which are in some ways the antithesis of 1911's - smaller cartridge (9mm and .40cal), DA/SA, decocker, aluminum frame. They are great pistols, but so are 1911's.

 

[Old Dog]

The other thing is that as a group, 1911 owners seem to be incapable of admitting anything else is good.

Whoa now, gotta disagree here. I'd say 1911 guys are far more likely to own, shoot and appreciate other platforms than say, Glock guys ... Why do I say this? Because I, and my peers that came up through the military with me since the late '70s are all 1911 guys; we all love fine Colt's and S&W revolvers and can appreciate top-end semi-autos such as SIGs, etc.

I think the thing is that most folks who cut their teeth on 1911s tend to be older, more opinionated shooters with far broader experienced ... thus, it may seem as though 1911 enthusiasts are more prejudiced in favor of this platform, but the reality is, no -- most of 'em simply know more about guns and shooting ...

As far as the military argument goes, I think most soldiers like the M9 just fine, or at least I know most of the Marines did when I was still on active duty.

Sad, but true. Lack of experience with other handguns is mostly the reason for this.

This whole non-issue of "controls" on the sides of handguns ... It's not simply a matter of these things in the drill of shooters operating their weapons ... sheesh, I can't believe I'm seeing folks argue against manual safeties -- especially since, at least in law enforcement, when weapon retention fails, the safeties have actually saved officers' lives ... Not to mention, perhaps (an oft unacknowledged, but sad thing) when children or other unauthorized persons get their hands on firearms ... which shouldn't happen, true -- safeties also have saved lives.

 

[Black Majik]

I like 1911s because I like the way they look when the finish is worn from extensive shooting and carrying.

SIG frames chip when they get carried alot, you cant wear the plastic of the XD,Glock and HK's, only the 1911s and other STEEL guns look soo beautiful from extensive (but cared for) use.

 

[Rob96]

I like the 1911 because no other auto fits my hand like a single stack, flat mainspring housing, long trigger 1911.I appreciate the lower bore axis it has, which contributes to the excellent handling of said weapon. I also appreciate Glocks, particularly the G19. Although not a 1911, it fits my hand pretty well.

 

[bountyhunter]

I have owned several of them and they were all reliable and well made but they just don't do it for me. It seems like these are the guns that everyone eventually comes back to and all the old timers love but I just don't see what is so special about them.

HERETIC!

When you get to the Pearly gates, John Browning will be there and shoot you with a 1911. Of course, you'll already be dead so it won't matter.....

But, it's the principle of the thing.

 

[robertbank]

Para has the P-14 with 14 rounds of .45acp at your finger

the P-16 carries 16 rounds of .40cal

and the P-18 carries 18 rounds of 9MM.

Now unless you are going to be the first Army ever to go to war with only a pistol how many rounds do you think you need. Two extra mags and you have 42 rounds of .45acp or 54 rounds of 9MM.

Man of all my handguns none shoot better than my 1911's. Accuracy wise it takes a lot to tie my K 38 but my STI Trojan in 9MM will do it all day....so will my Norinco A1 & Para SSP in .45acp

Stay Safe

 

[shield20]

Ok -let's get this straight - the 1911 does NOT have a high bore axis - it actually has one of the lowest bore axis of all pistol out there - definetly lower then Sigs, XDs, Glocks etc. - which is one reason why recoil in it is so acceptable.

A consistent 4.5# trigger pull for EVERY shot is a huge advantage over, say a Beretta, with a long very heavy 1st pull and a long SLOPPY follow-up pull. Shoot them back to back - NO contest. (though a DAK SIG is a bit better - but still 8lbs or so).

Shot thousands and thousands of rounds over 30 or so years - NEVER had a misfire on factory center-fire ammo - a "2nd chance by just pulling trigger" is WAY overrated.

1911s have a VERY thin profile, esp. for a big caliber, a perfect size grip (designed when the average male was 5'6" tall), and the ideal grip angle (confirmed recently by S&W for the majority of people). Glocks however point too high (everyone knows this ).

They come in light weight aluminum, scandium, polymer, and steel in all sizes - if you want something even lighter, or smaller, not worth shooting the .45....try a .380! I'll take a 29 oz Commander holding 9 rnds of .45 any day (especially in NY or CA where we are still limited to 10 rnds)

There are plenty of other great pistols - but try finding ONE that does everything as well as a 1911 - I attempt that every time I go to the gun store - haven't found it yet (though the 229 DAK MAY be close - but man is it expensive!)


Oh, and THEY WORK - proven for near 100 yrs in THE WORSE conditions.

 

[WarMachine]

This has to be the FIRST time that I have heard anyone refer to a 1911 sitting high in the hand

I have held USPs, SIGs, Rugers, Smith Autos, etc. and they all sit noticeably higher in the hand. This is also the first time I have heard of someone refer to poor pointablity. The grip angle seems on par with the majority of autos out today, save for the GLOCK series and Ruger Mark II/III's. From what I've seen, either adding or removing an arched MSH tailors the gun to most shooters hands.

I personally am a fan of most handguns out, and plan on adding a SIG to my collection if a nice priced AR doesn't come my way first (Lord knows I'm willing to pony up the extra cash to add a black rifle to my collection ). However, I'm still suprised sometimes of how well my 1911 works for me, and how much more accurate I am with a crisp 4# SA trigger attached to a well-fitting gun.

 

[JohnKSa]

Interesting how many people see this as a problem that MUST be solved. I see that this thread has got lots of proposed "solutions" to the "problem."

I thought that this goes without saying, but I guess I was wrong. Personal preference isn't a problem, and if a person has reasons for that preference, it's even less of a problem because that brings it into the realm of rational decision-making and out of the subjectivity of pure preference.

I don't own any 1911 style pistols. I never have. I might someday but I don't plan on it. Not that I hate them or even dislike them--it's just that there are other guns out there that will do what it does and have more modern features.

Sure, I could get one and change it around to do most of what I want out of a gun. But why should I do that when I can buy what I want off the shelf for a lot less and not have to change it at all?

So maybe some see that as a problem but it's not really. It's only a problem to the people who feel like they're not whole until every gun owner has a 1911--and anyone who honestly feels that way is far more of an evangelist than anything else.

 

[Animal]

I guess I missed the part where somebody said everybody has to have a 1911.

 

[JohnKSa]

Who would say such a silly thing flat out?

Read the thread again. Not only do we have people trying to convince the original poster that he's wrong, we also have people telling him how to modify the gun to meet his needs (no one's told him how to convert it from SA yet), and we've even got a few people who are clearly offended that someone would dare to post anything negative about their favorite pistol.

Why would someone try to convince a person to change their preference?

Why would someone try to tell a person how to modify a gun that he doesn't want in order to meet his needs?

Why would someone be offended or even care at all that some other anonymous person on the internet has chosen a gun other than the one they would choose?

 

[f4t9r]

1911 Autos, I like them and some dont (you)
Hard to argue the fact they are like the energizer Bunny they just keep going
and going since 1911

 

[Animal]

Ummmm, maybe you should reread the original post, he is the one that is saying we are wrong. Some of his assertions are wrong too by the way, if he doesn't like 1911s, then fine- but that does not make it a bad weapon, nor does it make it okay for him to insult others choice of firearm.
Guess what? I don't like Glocks, but I can readily admit they are great guns, reliable accurate enough and tough, I just can't get used to the angle or the trigger. Personal preference.....

 

[Animal]

Oh yeah, SA to DA? easy the Para LDA 1911. There I did it...

 

[albanian]

I never said the 1911 was bad gun. It is a very good gun. I own one now and I may own more in the future. I am not a 1911 hater. I just don't think it is a great CCW gun. It is probably the best platform for building a centerfire auto target pistol but for CCW, I think it has shortcommings that are ignored by people because they have become used to them.

I think the whole idea of SA only is outdated for self defense. Sure, you can get used to it but if you spent the same amount of time getting used to DA/SA, you would be in the same boat but with a more simple design. K.I.S.S. remember? I think the SIG DA/SA trigger and de-cock only system is the best out there. Yes, it take some getting used to in order to shoot well but once you have have got over that, you are better off. For some reason, 1911 lovers seem to hate change or improvements. Anything that has come after WWII is suspect.

I asked if anyone could tell me why the 1911 was such a good self defense pistol and all I get is insults. I have not heard one good reason why the 1911 is superior to anything else. I chalk it up to the .45acp myth. If it is a .45acp, it is magic and everything else is crap. I am a 1911 owner but I guess I haven't been converted to the mindless fold of followers yet.

 

[BluesBear]

The instigator of this thread is now the newest name on my ignore list which simply means I will not be seeing any more of his opinions and comments.


I am growing weary of his veiled insults and after seeing his remark in this thread I an personally suspect he is just another GMM who thrives on discontent looking only to stir up trouble.

______________________

Sorry but I really don't care about or have time for stupid folks. Folks got a right to be wrong, stupid or both.
(sm THR 05-06-04)

Some theories are neat, plausible and wrong.
(Grump THR 06-16-04)

And I further reserve the right to call a grandstanding microcephalic moron with delusions of adequacy and an advanced case of the stupids exactly what he is.
(Lawdog THR October 26th, 2003)
​

 

[TimboKhan]

I am willing to admit that I was rash in saying that as a group 1911 owners hate all other guns, and if I offended any of you by saying that, well, sorry. However, I will stand by everything else I said. Let me add that I wasn't responding to Animal's post as a whole, although it may have appeared so. I was sincere in saying he got a good deal on that gun, as I looked online at prices, and by god, he did get a good deal. That was all my original post was meant to say directly to Animal.

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

Everyone play nice. If someone is or is not on a personal "list," saying so can be taken as a personal attack, something not acceptable at THR.

Thanks.