Why doesn't someone make a double stack 380 carry pistol
- Thread starter george burns
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You are correct. Beretta never stopped making the 84/85, but did suspend exporting them to the U.S. They have since began sending them here again. They are available new, but a bit pricey. Worth every penny.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Check the website, they're not there.
A credible source said:
"At the Houston NRA show the Beretta rep told me that all 8x series guns will be discontinued indefinitely."
If I come across the Beretta booth at this year's show, I'll ask them.
A credible source said:
"At the Houston NRA show the Beretta rep told me that all 8x series guns will be discontinued indefinitely."
If I come across the Beretta booth at this year's show, I'll ask them.
What kind of shape was it in and how long ago was this?
Monac
Member
I used to have a Grendel, vkeith. IIRC, the hammer is made out of of steel plate about 1/8 inch thick, which is why I think the user manual prohibited dry firing. Also, you were supposed to be able to load 380 ammo into an M-16 stripper clip to reload them more quickly, if that makes any sense. It must be 20 years since I sold it.
The story I heard about them is that the company that made them (Grendel Corp?) gave a lifetime warranty on them. When too many started coming back, they liquidated the company and reformed as Kel-Tec. I have no idea if that's true or not.
The story I heard about them is that the company that made them (Grendel Corp?) gave a lifetime warranty on them. When too many started coming back, they liquidated the company and reformed as Kel-Tec. I have no idea if that's true or not.
New Beretta 84/85's are available, and in stock at several of my local gun shops, and on line at places like Buds. Buds even has both the blue, and nickel finished versions.
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/21_52/Handguns/Beretta
usp9
Member
$850!! Wow!
galaxyhitcher2000
Member
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2015
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- 1
I love love love my Bersa Thunder Plus. .380 with a 15 round mag. Exact same size as the standard Bersa but the grip is about 1/4" wider. Runs about $350 new but they are a little hard to find. Spare mags are like GOLD!
JR47
Member
The Beretta Model 84 shows up in the European catalog for Beretta.
On this past Black Friday, I traded some old .22 rim-fire to a Pawn and Gun Shop here for a new PT638 Pro Taurus. It holds 15+1, and is considerably smaller than the Model 84 Beretta, or the CZ82/83. Excellent trigger, good sights, and reliable as a stone in the 350 rounds I've put through it.
The neighbor lady, who suffers from Fibromyalgia, loves it. She is considering getting one tom replace the Bodyguard that she CCWs. It, as well, is no longer imported here, but there are quire a few in the system.
Not everyone can shoot enough 9x19, or larger, through CCW sized guns to become proficient with them. If it hurts to shoot in practice, you may not notice it in times when you are under attack, but you won't hit with it, either.
What the Police, or military, have found to be a floor in power means little to the CCW carrier. Both engage at distances well beyond usual CCW scenarios. They also engage through barriers routinely, something that the CCW carrier rarely does.
Then again, we fought two World Wars where the various combatants were equipped with such powerful rounds as the Japanese Nambu revolver and semi-auto, the .32 ACP, the .38 ACP, the .38/200, the 7.62 Nagant, and the FMJ .38 Special. European Police carried the .32 ACP, and the .380 ACP, into the 1970's. Those .32 and .380 ACP pistols carried between 7-9 rounds, and seemed to work against both enemy combatants, and criminals.
Personal choice determines a "minimum" caliber, and not much else. It has to include physical limitations, ability to conceal, and numerous other, personal, issues.
High cap .380 guns come and go. Market forces determine their survival, not anything technical. If some revolutionary .22 rim-fire round were introduced that increased lethality many fold, and people wanted a 35 round pistol for it, it would be placed on the market. We carry pistols because we can't carry rifles and shotguns, NOT because they are better for self-defense.
On this past Black Friday, I traded some old .22 rim-fire to a Pawn and Gun Shop here for a new PT638 Pro Taurus. It holds 15+1, and is considerably smaller than the Model 84 Beretta, or the CZ82/83. Excellent trigger, good sights, and reliable as a stone in the 350 rounds I've put through it.
The neighbor lady, who suffers from Fibromyalgia, loves it. She is considering getting one tom replace the Bodyguard that she CCWs. It, as well, is no longer imported here, but there are quire a few in the system.
Not everyone can shoot enough 9x19, or larger, through CCW sized guns to become proficient with them. If it hurts to shoot in practice, you may not notice it in times when you are under attack, but you won't hit with it, either.
What the Police, or military, have found to be a floor in power means little to the CCW carrier. Both engage at distances well beyond usual CCW scenarios. They also engage through barriers routinely, something that the CCW carrier rarely does.
Then again, we fought two World Wars where the various combatants were equipped with such powerful rounds as the Japanese Nambu revolver and semi-auto, the .32 ACP, the .38 ACP, the .38/200, the 7.62 Nagant, and the FMJ .38 Special. European Police carried the .32 ACP, and the .380 ACP, into the 1970's. Those .32 and .380 ACP pistols carried between 7-9 rounds, and seemed to work against both enemy combatants, and criminals.
Personal choice determines a "minimum" caliber, and not much else. It has to include physical limitations, ability to conceal, and numerous other, personal, issues.
High cap .380 guns come and go. Market forces determine their survival, not anything technical. If some revolutionary .22 rim-fire round were introduced that increased lethality many fold, and people wanted a 35 round pistol for it, it would be placed on the market. We carry pistols because we can't carry rifles and shotguns, NOT because they are better for self-defense.
usp9
Member
I'm glad you like yours. However, judging by my personal experience and the numerous complains of others, the Plus seems troubled by reliability issues. I found mags but none of them ever held the full 15 rounds. Had a plethora of misfeeds. Many people who own them have trouble getting the slide off, and back on. It isn't a user friendly gun. I wanted this pistol to work because it feels great in the hand but it just never worked. I'd gladly pay more for a competent firearm, but this one fell short. I've given up on Bersa.
OP
OP
george burns
Member
JR, just a note, I found that my Glocks, 26, 19, and many of my 9mm handguns, have far less recoil than a 380, "which is sometimes much more peppy that a non plus P 9mm. I carried one , "a PPK's, for 2 decades, and although I was used to it, and am 6 ft and 200 LBS, it definitely had a snap to it, more like a 40, in a small gun. Where the 9mm, in a standard pressure round, does not.
It comes to mind that a friend was shooting a ppk's at the range and stopped me to inquire why he was having so much trouble keeping it on target, he asked me to fire it , just to see if there was something wrong with the gun. I fired it putting both in the 10 , it was only 7 yards away. Nope I said that's just normal for these guns. He sold it and bought a softer shooting 9mm Nano. Still has it as far as I know.
I only see him when we go to a show, since we have a mutual friend. But he has carried many guns since the Corps, and he just couldn't get the hang of the 380.
I find that all of these hyper loaded cartridges like the 40, and 357auto, are much harder to shoot straight, "unless you have a finely tuned heavier gun," like for competition shooting", than a lightweight sub-compact, 38, or 9mm, even 45. They tend to push straight back rather than twist.
It comes to mind that a friend was shooting a ppk's at the range and stopped me to inquire why he was having so much trouble keeping it on target, he asked me to fire it , just to see if there was something wrong with the gun. I fired it putting both in the 10 , it was only 7 yards away. Nope I said that's just normal for these guns. He sold it and bought a softer shooting 9mm Nano. Still has it as far as I know.
I only see him when we go to a show, since we have a mutual friend. But he has carried many guns since the Corps, and he just couldn't get the hang of the 380.
I find that all of these hyper loaded cartridges like the 40, and 357auto, are much harder to shoot straight, "unless you have a finely tuned heavier gun," like for competition shooting", than a lightweight sub-compact, 38, or 9mm, even 45. They tend to push straight back rather than twist.
mikester602
Member
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2015
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- 1
Dear, George Burns they have tried importing several models over the last few years, but due to poor marketing and significately ignorant distributors and dealers most don't get a fair shake. The subcompact SIG p250 in 380 (12+1 and 15+1 extended mag) i believe has been available for a few years now, i have only seen them on the internet on gunbroker 3 or 4 are always available for under $500. I think they are only 1.125 grip width which impresses me. Pavona 380s 13+1 (cz polymer clones) seems to be selling ok the last year or so. Chiappa has recently come out with MC14 in 380 13+1. Chiappas are usually known for low quality but this one has been taught-ed to be made in a higher standard quality Turkish military grade manufacturing plant. Jiminez arms has recently come out with a double stack 380 12 or 13+1 i believe have seen a couple for sale its still not on their website, but i have seen one in person. I dont know if Cobra manufacturing is still in business but they made a Keltec P11 clone 10rd in 380 cobra patriot (i believe they also had 6rd single stack B model to cover me arse thank you very much). I personally own a Canik c100 in 380 13+1 they stopped importing them a couple years ago. I also own a bersa's first polymer design BP380 8+1. i dont know if they are going to import those anymore either. Taurus had a couple double stacks in 380 not terribly long ago the PT138 (12+1 i believe) and the more recent pt638 15+1. and i believe the had an updated 2011 380 model which was basically the pt638 with a different cosmetic look.
P.S. I am a bit of a research nut.
rodinal220
Member
Savage produced a nice one in 1907/1915/1917 that held 10 rounds in the mag,while most were produced in .32 acp,there were some produced in .380 acp.
10 quick shots!!!
10 quick shots!!!
Ironicaintit
Member
Ive got one of those! Contracted by Mauser to Gamba. Shoots great, natural pointer, and is real reliable, even with all the various JHPs ive tried. I guess thats a rare thing on this model, too. DA pull is pretty stiff, but SA is good.Float Pilot said:
Ive been drilling myself with it, and its been finding its way into my CC rotation.
Its not that much smaller than my BHP, but its a lot more comfortable, and just disappears onto me.
I had been carrying a p238... But one day i was evaluating my surroundings and thought to myself "8 rounds of 380 is not enough"
browningguy
Member
The Pavona is made by Tanfoglio, quality is excellent. We've put a couple of thousand rounds through hers including 2 defensive pistol classes with zero issues.
JR47
Member
I really cannot find any reason to disbelieve a person suffering from Fibromyalgia when they say that a particular gun and caliber combinations hurts them to shoot it. All of the rationalizing in the world seems to fail when they hand the pistol back, and say "it hurts".
Really small .380 guns can be snappy, but physics reveals that the ft/lbs. of recoil is determined by weight of the firing platform, weight of the bullet, and velocity. How a gun acts in anyone's particular hand is NOT something that can be predicted.
The larger .380 pistols tend to be easier to shoot, and have less recoil, than the same platform in 9mm. Especially now that manufacturers are beginning to use locked-breech systems in those .380s. The PT638 Pro SA is one such gun.
Really small .380 guns can be snappy, but physics reveals that the ft/lbs. of recoil is determined by weight of the firing platform, weight of the bullet, and velocity. How a gun acts in anyone's particular hand is NOT something that can be predicted.
The larger .380 pistols tend to be easier to shoot, and have less recoil, than the same platform in 9mm. Especially now that manufacturers are beginning to use locked-breech systems in those .380s. The PT638 Pro SA is one such gun.
Walt Sherrill
Member
vkeith said:
Mine was 100% reliable too, but a very difficult gun to shoot well/accurately. Awkward trigger, to say the least. I sold mine, and don't miss it. I'd much rather have a Kel-Tec P-32, despite its more-anemic round and lower capacity.
vkeith said:
That warning applies to most of the small Kel-Tec handguns -- the manuals warn against dry-firing. Get Snap Caps!!
I'm not a Kel-Tec hater -- I've had a bunch of them, and all of mine were 100% reliable. Few of them were fun to shoot... but my current PMR-30 (got for my wife who, unlike most guns, can shoot it pretty well) is a joy. No recoil, great trigger, very, very light. BIG FLASH, and BIGGER BOOM! (I liked my Sub2000 in 9mm and regret trading it away... but found the .40 version almost paintful to shoot.)
Zendude
Member
I think it has been mentioned in a couple of posts...the Bersa Plus is a current production model. I understand that Bersa will be making a "combat" version soon. The combat version has some minor differences, namely different grips, a different rear sight, and a more sculpted slide design. So, you can still get a current 380 double stack, just very few choices.
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
+1 on the Bersa Plus, which is basically a double-stack derivative of the Walther PPK. It's definitely CCW-sized; my first pistol and CCW was a Bersa 383 .380, basically the single-stack predecessor of the current Bersa line.
Ignition Override
Member
george burns:
Along with 9 fingers and others' comments about the superb CZ-83, beware of typical issues with some aftermarket magazines. The real magazine labeled "Uhersky Brod" etc (on the package-not the mag.) can be ordered from Czech-USA. My new extra mag holds ten rounds, but an authentic 'Uhersky Brod' 12-rd. version might be available.
Were commercial Russian Makarovs already mentioned? Mine is a commercial .380 Auto version in single-stack, but there are double-stack versions in either .380 Auto, 9x18 Mak., or possibly both chamberings are available in double. All of these comm. Maks have adjustable rear sights.
Along with 9 fingers and others' comments about the superb CZ-83, beware of typical issues with some aftermarket magazines. The real magazine labeled "Uhersky Brod" etc (on the package-not the mag.) can be ordered from Czech-USA. My new extra mag holds ten rounds, but an authentic 'Uhersky Brod' 12-rd. version might be available.
Were commercial Russian Makarovs already mentioned? Mine is a commercial .380 Auto version in single-stack, but there are double-stack versions in either .380 Auto, 9x18 Mak., or possibly both chamberings are available in double. All of these comm. Maks have adjustable rear sights.
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