why the 380 is PLENTY for SD

[1911 guy]

I'm a .45 guy, but...

The .380 is enough. There have been a lot of folks planted with handguns less potent. To the soldiers, gunfighters and lawmen using .36 cal. percussion revolvers, a .380 would be a serious upgrade. As a side note, the terms "one shot stop" and "real world" shouldn't be used in the same conversation.

 

[stickslinger]

IF, in a worst case scenario, a BG (lets say 6'5", 320lbs) is an imminent threat to my life, and I have to use my 380 to stop that threat, the 3 rounds I can put center mass in about 1 second, should at the very least make him take notice.....now I have 5 rounds left, and when they hit him in the face, Im sure the threat will stop. I really believe this. oh yeah, the other 7 rounds in my spare mag should help too if need be

All I have to say about that is if you can whip that smoke wagon out of concealment and put three rounds center mass in "about 1 second" with a Bersa!!!! I guess that is all you need. Have you practiced that?

The reason I stopped carrying pocket / small pistols as a primary weapon is precisely because no amount of practice enabled me to present, accurately, and rapidly fire the smaller weapon with near the speed and precision that I could produce with a full size or commander size 1911. So, I made the decision to do everything I could to carry the full size 1911 at all times.

I've tried a Walther PPK/S, a Kel -Tec P32, and a Kahr PM9. Now I understand it's necessary to carry a small pistol from time to time, I still stick the Kahr in my pocket on the rare occasion. But do you really want to be trying to wrestle a fistful of pistol out of your jeans pocket when the bad guy is rapidly approaching?

And in the end, what's better? A marginal hit with a .380 or a marginal hit with a 9mm, .40S&W, et al. I think just as important as shooting the largest caliber you can handle is your ability to present the chosen weapon and place fast and accurate fire on the target.

For me, long trigger pulls, small nubby sights, ultra short barells, and grips smaller than my hand all stuffed inside a holster that's inside my pocket all add up to about 40-50% more time needed to present and fire the weapon. Forget accurate and rapid fire when I'm trying to move!

Get a friend with a stop watch to time you. Draw fire till empty, reload, and fire till empty. I bet if you haven't actually practiced that multiple times it will take you 20 seconds!! I bet it'll take you three seconds plus to get the darn thing out of your pocket from a hands by your side or hands in the air position! That might make you reconsider what and how you carry.

Once again! I know some people can only carry small compact weapons, but if you can carry something else, you should!

My 2c.

 

[Medusa]

We have all seen war movies. The scene where the soldier is holding the radio still trying to contact HQ during a fire fight........the camera pans down and his entire lower body is gone. That kind of thing happens, happened. So if a guy gets half his body blown off froma bazooka, and doesnt die instantly, Im pretty sure a 45 isnt gonna guarantee instant death either.

You believe what they show you in the movies ? How old are you? 12?

 

[Glockamole]

One fact often overlooked in these discussions is that 95% of crimes stopped by handguns involves brandishing only, according to John Lott. So caliber is essentially irrelevant except for 5% of the time. Of course, if I pulled my .22 lr short mini revolver on someone, they might laugh.

 

[jojo]

+1 for the adequacy of the .380. I have several and feel perfectly fine with them.

In the end doesn't it all come down to having a gun and feeling comfortable with it?
Lots of people carry a 45 acp or whatever one shot killer, but they aren't proffecient (sp?) with it.
If it happens to be a .380, your comfortable with it, well practiced and most of all, you have it when you need it, does it matter if it's not a .45?

 

[GMAN]

I carry a .380 in the summer when everyone is lightly dressed and I'm too skinny to carry a .45 in the summer, now in the winter I carry a Pro CDP .45 I know it will shoot thru a t-shirt, sweater, and a winter coat.

 

[jpthegeek]

I have a Bersa 380 Thunder as well. Bought it in college and carried it for a while before I got my G19 and my 1911.

Accurate little pistol, and very fun to shoot. My only problem with it is finding 380 ammo on the cheap. I bought some Wolf a while back, shot through one box and put the nasty stuff back on the shelf. I had never used that stuff in a pistol before and now, I never will again. Too smelly and too dirty.

Anyway, I love the Bersa. Light, accurate and (dare i say with a GASP), as reliable as any handgun I have ever owned.

But, is .380 enough? I would agree that it is not what would be ideal for a defensive round, but if you can get off several accurate rounds, the power of them will not really matter. I would also agree that a .380 in the pocket/holster is MUCH better than 9mm/10mm/FiftyCal left at home in the safe or the console of the truck.

 

[Spot77]

I carry my Bersa 380 on Norton's land down in West Virginia. I used to carry my Ruger .45, but it was way too bulky to work around the property with.

However, with the threat of bears and other four legged animals, the Mossberg is always fairly close to one of us.

 

[bogie]

In a self-defense situation, the .22 you have with you is 100% better than the .500 that's sitting in the safe.

If one takes the time to practice, and can control accurate and rapid placement of rounds, there's nothing wrong with being confident in a mousegun.

 

[Pilot]

Lately I've been carrying my Beretta M85 Cheetah in .380. I use the 95 grain Corbons. I find the little Beretta to be very accurate and reliable. Nothing wrong with the .380.

 

[robert garner]

380

mines a Makarov;fits in pocket;exceptionally accurate with this,its blocky and uncomfortable in the hand BUT it hits where you point it! I have scads of bigger but they dont fit in my pocket so don't Travell well. I don't feel underarmed,tho
its not what i would choose for combat(no pistol fits that bill!)

 

[LightningJoe]

Men instinctively prefer to be armed and carry weapons for this reason. In this era, the gun is the premier weapon of individual combat. Consequently, men carry guns. Any reason they give you other than that is rationalization. Men did not reason out their preference for being armed; evolution did that reasoning for them.

So what is an adequate caliber? Bigger and more powerful is always better, just like the 400 hp engine is better than the 150 hp engine. But, in practice, both will accomplish the same result 99% of the time. It is assuredly better to be a badass with a 380 than a dumbass with a 45. Of course, it is possible to be a dumbass with any caliber.

 

[conkmwc]

What am I missing?

Why carry a Bersa .380 when you can carry a Kahr PM9? The Bersa is heavier, shoots a lesser caliber and is physically larger than the Kahr. The only advantage I see is that the Bersa is cheaper. Practice ammo costs could make up that difference quickly. I can understand why someone might carry a Seecamp or a KelTec in their pocket in .32 or .380 but if you're carrying IWB you might as well go with something more powerful right?

 

[JMusic]

I agree with Lightnin Joe, 400 hp's is better than 150. As far as shooting prowless 3 center mass 4 to the head, good luck. This ain't like shooting squirrels. There is a big difference reacting after being startled or scared. Try not to drop your gun on the ground and make sure you are not pointing it at your foot or freindlies prior to touching it off. This is hard to train for, only a few schools in the country come close. Excluding ofcourse the school of hard knocks.
Jim

 

[halvey]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
what he said. The ONLY reason I like the .380 is because of the Kel Tec platform. If you are going to shoot the .380, get a reloading setup and look up some "Clark" loads. If you can get 100 gr RN to go 1000 FPS you are on the right track.

 

[magyvor]

Reactions......you people are great !

So I have to admit, some of what I wrote MAY have been to stir the pot...so to speak.

Formal combat training....nope. Practice alot....yep. Heres a drill for those who dont have the thousands of dollars to go to LFI. Put a 2x4 in the ground standing up. Stand back a few yards, and draw and tripple tap. Do this a few times, then have your buddy stand behind you, and yell, blow a whistle, whatever, to distract you (by the way, see what a 380 does to a 2x4, you might think a little better of the caliber). Or......3 targets at 7 yards, about 10 feet apart. Start from right to left...Draw and shoot target 1, move to the left, kneel and shoot, move to the left, lay down on your belly and shoot. Again, with your buddy doing whatever he can to startle and distract you. You can come up with a few great ways to practice having to shoot under stress.

Now, having said that....I will again state that I DO NOT know how I would react in a real world SD situation. I do know that I am confident (mindset) that I can defend myself (practice). What I am most confident about is using my common sense to AVOID trouble as much as possible. I grew up in the Bay Area of California. Oakland, San Jose, San Francisco. My neighborhood was pretty rough. Nuff Said. I have seen my share of scary sh*t. I have been stabbed with a screwdriver in the leg, in the hand with a pocket knife. Was jumped by I dont know how many guys while walking home from a friends in the middle of the day. All these things happened years and years ago when I was a kid. I had friends who got real dead from being shot. I now live in Oregon, am almost 40 years old, and again use common sense to protect myself. I am aware of my surroundings at al times.

So.....my 1911, my XD9, and my 380 all have a roll as a tool for SD. I feel equally safe having any of those tools at hand. I can draw and shoot all 3 quickly and acurately.

As for "1 shot stop".....well, I dont plan on shooting 1 time

The few people I know who I would consider "professionals" all agree on one thing.......in a real world SD situation, you dont know the outcome. If you can call 911 after to make the report....you win.

 

[Vitamin G]

IF, in a worst case scenario, ... the 3 rounds I can put center mass in about 1 second, should at the very least make him take notice

I'm sorry, and I don't know you from a gold medalist shooter, but under pressure, I think this is 99.9999999% of people's BEST case scenario.

 

[Lonestar.45]

I won't bash the .380. I have a KelTec myself and find it accurate and easily carried.

What I don't understand is why someone would carry a .380 in a Bersa/PPK sized gun. My Kahr PM9 is smaller, lighter, and 9mm, so I think it's a better choice. Granted, they're more expensive. If all you can afford is a Bersa, then carry and enjoy, but the KelTec is smaller and even cheaper if you're in that boat.

Don't feel undergunned w/ a .380.

 

[Pilgrim]

Ive been reading alot of "If you can handle 380, get a 9--380 isnt enough ....blah blah blah"

I carry a Bersa thunder 380 daily, and feel very confident it will stop the BG. I would bet my life on it, or those I care for.

Whatever makes you happy just tickles me to death.

Pilgrim

 

[oh blanky]

Any handgun round is a marginal manstopper.

Why not carry a gun that carries the most powerful round you can mangage and still practically conceal?

There is no such thing as "enough" gun in a gun fight.

 

[Steelharp]

As the old saying goes... better to hit 'em with a flyswatter than miss 'em with a cannon...

 

[Marshall]

Some of the coolest pistols made are in .380 caliber. Means nothing to this thread but I felt like saying it.

 

[conkmwc]

What I don't understand is why someone would carry a .380 in a Bersa/PPK sized gun. My Kahr PM9 is smaller, lighter, and 9mm, so I think it's a better choice. Granted, they're more expensive. If all you can afford is a Bersa, then carry and enjoy, but the KelTec is smaller and even cheaper if you're in that boat.

Sounds familiar...

 

[Robert J McElwain]

It's my impression that, in the real world, whether it be .45, 9mm, .380 or whatever, the vast majority of shots will not be kill shots or absolute stop shots. But any of them should improve your chances of getting the hell out of there.

Bob

 

[AndrewM]

You believe what they show you in the movies ? How old are you? 12?

Well the post about having half a body and still functioning may be a bit extreme, but the point is still valid that the human body can survive a hellacious amount of trauma and still function.

A S&W 500 right to the heart will not give you an instant stop all the time (the body can still function for around 30 seconds or so with no circulation). The bad guy with a see-through hole in his chest can still very much be a threat to those around him. Now a person may stop when they realize that they've been shot, but that's a psychological stop and not a physical one.

Remember that some 80% of all handgun shot victims survive their wounds.

The conversation will always come back to shot placement. A perfect hit with a 22 short will be much more effective than a lousy hit with a .50AE. If you can draw your weapon from cover and hit a moving target multiple times accurately in under a second than I'd say it doesn't matter what caliber you use, I'll also recommend that you call up one of the major gun manufactures and ask for some big money to sponsor you as you will clean up every competition out there, you'll also earn some big money consulting/teaching people the skills needed to do the same thing.