Why dosen't the .30-30 get any respect?

[HavelockLEO]

Guys in my profession have alot of respect for the 30-30, along with the other inexpensive 30 cal thats previlant down my way, 7.62X39, between the two of them theyre the ones we run into the most other than .223/5.56 and thats because this is a military town.
On the less ominous side of the issue, I'm looking for a pre-64 Model 94 or an older used Marlin, the new Marlin 336 I used to have wasnt much to write about. If I loaded anything more than two rounds in the tube, she'd JAM up solid when would cycle the lever. I figure if thats the state of a NEW one, I'll hold out for one thats broken in. But until then I have a H&R single shot thats accurate and will never wear out.

 

[35 Whelen]

One, personally, it does nothing 7,62x39 doesn't, and I prefer that round for being rimless and cheaper.

On paper...maybe...in the field, no way. A 30-30 drives a 170 gr. bullet the same velocity as the 7.62x39 drives a 150 gr. and there's a lot more penetration potential with the heavier bullet.

The 7.62x39 cartridge is slightly more powerful and a lot cheaper compared to the .30-30...

Again, on paper the little 123 gr. bullet may appear more powerful, but in reality the heavier bullets the 30-30 uses will easily out-penetrate the light bullets typically used in the x39mm.
35W

 

[Yarddog]

I always shot 150gr Soft point out of my mdl 94, took first deer at 13 YOA one neck shot
was all I had @ 60 yrds & DRT ; )
Y/D

 

[bergmen]

30-30 Lever Gun as Plinker

Don't forget the 30-30 in a handy lever rifle makes for a great plinking gun also. I have two, an older Marlin Model 1936 I inherited from my Dad (and was my first deer rifle):

Still a great shooter.

Then in the early 90's I decided I wanted a new one and bought a 336:

I reload so I can put up a few hundred rounds for an afternoon knocking tin cans around. This is good practice for fast action woods hunting also if I include one of my kids in a "keep the can going uphill" shooting contests.

Great guns and amongst my all time favorites.

Dan

 

[WardenWolf]

On paper...maybe...in the field, no way. A 30-30 drives a 170 gr. bullet the same velocity as the 7.62x39 drives a 150 gr. and there's a lot more penetration potential with the heavier bullet.



Again, on paper the little 123 gr. bullet may appear more powerful, but in reality the heavier bullets the 30-30 uses will easily out-penetrate the light bullets typically used in the x39mm.
35W

You forget also that spitzer bullets get better penetration, whether or not they expand. And you can hand-load the 7.62x39 cartridge with heavier bullets if you so choose.

 

[bergmen]

On the less ominous side of the issue, I'm looking for a pre-64 Model 94 or an older used Marlin, the new Marlin 336 I used to have wasnt much to write about. If I loaded anything more than two rounds in the tube, she'd JAM up solid when would cycle the lever. I figure if thats the state of a NEW one, I'll hold out for one thats broken in. But until then I have a H&R single shot thats accurate and will never wear out.

It's too bad you got rid of the jammer. Those types of problems are often very easy to fix. This is exactly what happened with my new Marlin Model 1894 and it was just a sharp edge on the front of the carrier that digs into the base of the next cartridge in the magazine tube, jamming it up tight with the lever full open. I had to push in on the base of the next round through the loading gate with a small screwdriver to get the lever closed.

I took it apart and worked down the front edge of the carrier with a stone (these parts are hardened) and put a small, smooth radius on it. It has worked perfectly since (about 2 years).

Dan

 

[336A]

Even at 200 yards the 30-06 is going 630 fps faster. Energy @200 is 1783 vs 945 ft-lbs, nearly TWICE as much. That's a huge difference and it does make a difference in performance.

First off I would like to point out that increased velocity does give the user more range. A perfect example of this is the Army upgrading their bolt action rifles from 7.62x51 (.308) to .300 Win mag. A deer hit with a .30-30 inside it's effective range will be just as dead as if hit with a faster cartridge. There also won't be any wasted blood shot meat if a closeer than normal shot is taken as well. I witnessed this fact when I hit a deer at all of 60 yards with my 7mm Mag several years back, which out classes your 30-06 and the .30-30 by a fair margin.

+1 to what 35 Whelen stated above. Actually it is the other way around, the .30-30 out classes the 7.62x39 both on paper and from actual rifles. Here is a good read on the Hornady ammo, the article was written shortly after the Hornady ammo became available. Also take note of the performance of the Federal Fusion ammo which is what I use. http://www.realguns.com/archives/120.htm

The most common bullet weight for the 7.62x39 is 123gr, the majority of that is FMJ. I can't even find SP hunting ammo for it on the shelves of local stores here, the same is just the opposite for the .30-30 it is everywhere. Aside from all of that there is a broader variety of ammo for the .30-30 such as Fed 170gr Nosler partitions, Hornady 160gr LE and the newer 140gr MonoFlex, Fed 150gr TSX, and Win 150gr BST, and Power Max just to name a few.

 

[336A]

You forget also that spitzer bullets get better penetration, whether or not they expand. And you can hand-load the 7.62x39 cartridge with heavier bullets if you so choose.

And you forget that the .30-30 can be loaded and used with 220gr cast bullets quite effectively, read post #16 by w30wcf. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=5014&highlight=heavy+.30-30+bullets

 

[CHEVELLE427]

this old 1941 mod 94 30wcf look to have put many a dinner on the table in it's day, and still will in 2011

 

[sig220mw]

I had a Marlin 30-30 and sold it to a friend back in the 80's. It was very accurate and I shot it well though it did kick a bit. Bought a 270 after selling it. Buying the 270 was already my intention before selling the Marlin.

I wanted a bolt gun with more range and really only sold the Marlin because a good friend wanted to buy it. I had gotten it in the mid 70's and only paid about $70.00 for it brand new. Sold it for about the same.

I have a lot of respect for the 30-30 and may one day get another.

 

[neededausername]

Let's see the 30-30 is low recoil, even when shot out of a lightweight rifle. The rifles chambered for it especially 336, and 94 will go bang when you need them to, and if you know what you are doing will kill what they are pointed at. The rifles are shorter and easier to carry than many other rifles. The ammo is relatively inexpensive compared to other CF platforms. Noting to bad mouth that I can see. Can it shoot a .5" group at 1000yards, no, but it wasn't designed to.

 

[35 Whelen]

You forget also that spitzer bullets get better penetration, whether or not they expand.

That's alot like saying "Red cars are faster than black cars". If spitzers outpenetrate other bullets, then why do the cartridges that MUST achieve maixumum penetration (i.e.- 458 Winchester, et al) use RN bullets?
It's a known and documented fact that FMJ spitzers are highly prone to deflection in tissue which greatly alters their course and decreases their penetration.
Spitzer bullets, like all shaped bullets, come in all sorts of designs regarding construction which affects their penetration. A .224" 50 gr. Sierra Blitz (a spitzer) is designed to expand very rapidly therefore allowing minimal penetration. A Barnes TSX spitzer on the other hand is designed to expand AND penetrate very deeply. There are like examples for RN bullets.

If you want to believe that a 7.62x39 is in any way superior to the 30-30 in the hunting field, that is certainly your choice. But their simply is no way that the little 123 gr. bullet (considered a varmint weight bullet), will come anywhere near to matching the terminal performance of a well constructed 150 or 170 gr. such as those used in the 30-30.
35W

 

[Kachok]

7.62X39 is a decent round, not the game slaying legend the 30-30 is, but it will do the job as well. Ballistics give the advantage to the 30-30 up close, and the spritzer 7.62x39 past 150. Flip a coin really, I would rather have the 30-30 due to the heavier bullets and the century old reputation for taking everyting from jack rabbit to grizly bear. Cheap bulk 7.62X39 ammo is famous for being very low quality, and I only hunt with premium bullets and handloads so that is not a selling point for me. Why would trust my very limited hunting time to a crappy $0.29 bullet mass produced for a rifle the is not accurate anyway?

 

[avs11054]

I've got one and love it. I just wouldn't take it hunting here in AZ where a 400 yd shot is not out of the question.

 

[Kendal Black]

The handiness of the lever carbine still stands out after all these years. The .30-30 cartridge is popular throughout the Americas, thus available anyplace sporting ammo is sold. It's an effective hunting round if you understand its limitations.

I wish someone made a flat point FMJ bullet for it, which would be useful for some things. Oh well.

I think some people look at a .30-30 rifle and think it is old hat, and want something new and spiffy, but sometimes, old hat is good hat. If you use something radically keen instead of a .30-30, it makes no difference to the deer.

 

[sonick808]

I love the .30-30. the model 94 is one of the few guns i take EVERY time i go to the range.

 

[blarby]

" wish someone made a flat point FMJ bullet for it, which would be useful for some things. Oh well."


*scribble scribble *

Indeed, it would !

 

[mljdeckard]

It's not that I like it or dislike it in any way, it's just not the type of gun culture I grew up in. When I bought my first 'sniper' rifle, about 15 years ago, (a Remington 700 PSS with the bipod and Leupold, etc, I had ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA what I was doing with it,) I showed it to some of my buddies down home on their ranches, they asked; "Great. Can you lash it to a saddlehorn and ride 10 miles?" Well, NO. "Then what good is it?" There is a whole culture of saddle guns I don't know much about, and I wouldn't mind learning.

Having said that, I don't see myself getting one, or anything in the family anytime soon. What you guys are using them for, (short-medium range work with open sights,) I will use my SKS for. Are they ballistically IDENTICAL? Well, no. Are they close enough for anything I will use them for? YES.

 

[Kachok]

No flat nose FMJs that I know of, but if you handload you can shoot round nose FMJs. If you cast your own I think you can use large meplet hardcast bullets in a 30-30, never done it myself though.

 

[Col. Plink]

recently got my first Marlin 30-30, and now I understand what I was missing in the design: compact, with the tube mag aiding in keeping the weight in-line with the recoil (an aspect I hadn't considered), giving it a lot of stability in conjunction with the minimal recoil. Haven't been able to shoot for groups yet but I'm sold on the design. 45-70's next!

 

[christcorp]

When I use to reload, I used every imaginable bullet on the 30-30 imaginable. Most of the weights used in a 308 or 30-06. The key is to make sure you treat your rifle as a "2 SHOT" carbine. I'd load one in the chamber and one in the magazine. This way; I could shoot spire tips, FMJ, PSP, etc...

If you don't reload; then that's an issue. And I no longer really reload the 30-30 that much being there are leverevolution rounds now. Plus; in wyoming, a 30-30 is more of a backup rifle or a coyote ranch gun. I no longer use it as a primary hunting rifle. But it is on a 4-wheeler or horse. But if you reload; there isn't a round alive that the 30-30 won't shoot. Just be careful and only shoot 2 at a time.

 

[bergmen]

" wish someone made a flat point FMJ bullet for it, which would be useful for some things. Oh well."


*scribble scribble *

Indeed, it would !

Here ya go...

http://www.berrysmfg.com/product-i14671-c34-g8-b0-p0-30_30_Cal_.308_150gr_RS.aspx

Dan

 

[suzukisam]

I think this is funny.... I will stir up the nest a little, I personally think it's a terrible cartridge. it works yeah so do many others that I don't like either... I'm not offended by it, but I would never buy one.

It was stated that there is no difference in a better cartridge inside 100-200 yrds... okay then why not carry the -06 and you have a larger capable range? just for the record I'm not an -06 fanboy either, don't own one, and probably never will.. if the argument is to say I'm not hunting at those distances and the extra recoil is not wanted if I'm not going to gain any useable distance, than I think that makes sense. It doesn't make it better..

I don't believe that you need a ultra magnum either.. though I am a big fan of a 7mm rm.. I think it's great that the 30-30 after all these years is still a useful hunting cartridge and has been able to be adapted and achieve even better performance than when it was made.. I feel the same about my 45-70. But lets be real archery has come a long way since it's inception( I won't even pretend to know how many thousands of years it's been around) but no one will argue a bow is better than a 30-30? and no one should try to argue a 30-30 is better than a-06, 7mm mag, or even a 243 for that matter..

to be clear the word better to me means ballistic performance. lighter recoil, or compact design, ect... are functional attributes, these are the things we gain/give up to have the needed ballistic performance.. archery is near silent, thats a great advantage... but a 30-30 is still better.. and an -06 is better than a 30-30

 

[chas08]

I love my Win. 94 clone. A Ted Williams Model 100. It's safe to say it's my favorite ironsighted rifle, of the ones I have.

 

[CraigC]

One, personally, it does nothing 7,62x39 doesn't, and I prefer that round for being rimless and cheaper.

Only in magazine articles. In the real world, this is completely untrue. It's only cheaper if you compare el cheapo surplus (which is not really surplus but 3rd world seconds) to quality domestic .30-30 ammo.

The 7.62x39 cartridge is slightly more powerful and a lot cheaper compared to the .30-30

Uh, what??? Sorry but this is wishful thinking on the part of com-bloc shooters. Decline? The .30-30 is still in the top ten ammunition and reloading die sales.

That's a huge difference and it does make a difference in performance.

On paper only. Do you really think the .30-06 kills a deer any deader? Do you really think a .300Mag is even better?

But trying to pretend that a 30-30 lever is anywhere near as accurate or as powerful as a good 30-06 bolt rifle is wishful thinking.

Nobody's pretending such and to imply is silly. It's plenty accurate and powerful enough. Accuracy is debatable. It's not like every boltgun on the planet is a sub-MOA shooter and the bias against leverguns in this department is mostly legend. I've haven't done very much load development with my .30-30's but I do have two traditional leverguns that shoot sub-MOA.

You forget also that spitzer bullets get better penetration, whether or not they expand.

Completely untrue.

It was stated that there is no difference in a better cartridge inside 100-200 yrds... okay then why not carry the -06 and you have a larger capable range?

Why would I carry an 8-9lb .30-06 when a 6lb .30-30 does everything I need it to do and I don't need the extra range? If it was all about the most accurate, most effecient, easiest to use tools for the job, we'd all be carrying stainless synthetic monstrosities but there is a hell of a lot more than goes into weapon selection than that. If I 'had' to hunt with a stainless/synthetic .30-06 with a big scope, I just wouldn't hunt.