Why I don't trust a Glock
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bikemutt
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While bird hunting over the years with some of the most careful, safe to be around guys, I still, every once in a while, hear someone mumble "damn, forgot the safety" as the bird flies away in a successful escape.
I never hear "crap, forgot to put it on safe after the last volley", but I know it happens.
People make mistakes sometimes, in spite of all the knowledge, drills and practice. That's not an excuse, just a fact.
I think each person balances their confidence and mastery of gunhandling with the safety profile of their weapon of choice. I have nothing but admiration and respect for those who've achieved mistake-free, instinctive, safe gunhandling.
I never hear "crap, forgot to put it on safe after the last volley", but I know it happens.
People make mistakes sometimes, in spite of all the knowledge, drills and practice. That's not an excuse, just a fact.
I think each person balances their confidence and mastery of gunhandling with the safety profile of their weapon of choice. I have nothing but admiration and respect for those who've achieved mistake-free, instinctive, safe gunhandling.
RamDragon64
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I am Done...
There seemed to be a lot of guessing, questioning and out right 'fabrication' of the story on this. 'I' wrote my story here (I was the handgun handler) to clear things up.
By only the second reply to my post, someone has already 'Assumed' that my finger was 'Inside' the trigger guard. Tell me exactly WHERE in my story did I say that and where did it say that I'm an untrained handgun user? (I actually stated the opposite!). I put my story on here to 'Get the record straight', but if no matter what I write, people are going 'See what you want to see' and fabricate things that are not there, well then lets just say that this is my last post. Some of you would have fit right in as 'clergy' men during the Witch Burning trials !!!
RamDragon64
There seemed to be a lot of guessing, questioning and out right 'fabrication' of the story on this. 'I' wrote my story here (I was the handgun handler) to clear things up.
By only the second reply to my post, someone has already 'Assumed' that my finger was 'Inside' the trigger guard. Tell me exactly WHERE in my story did I say that and where did it say that I'm an untrained handgun user? (I actually stated the opposite!). I put my story on here to 'Get the record straight', but if no matter what I write, people are going 'See what you want to see' and fabricate things that are not there, well then lets just say that this is my last post. Some of you would have fit right in as 'clergy' men during the Witch Burning trials !!!
RamDragon64
RatherNotSay
Member
Guns are tools of death...plain and simple. Even the most experienced owners can get complacent. However your story is just negligent.
If that second statement was correct and you WERE a trained handgun user than even if someone tells you the gun is unloaded you should always revert back to that cardinal rule of ALWAYS ASSUME THE GUN IS LOADED. Even if a friend told me his gun was unloaded I wouldn't risk it and NOT check for myself.
It's self evident what happens when you don't check the chamber for yourself.
If that second statement was correct and you WERE a trained handgun user than even if someone tells you the gun is unloaded you should always revert back to that cardinal rule of ALWAYS ASSUME THE GUN IS LOADED. Even if a friend told me his gun was unloaded I wouldn't risk it and NOT check for myself.
It's self evident what happens when you don't check the chamber for yourself.
Purgatory
Member
Here's a quote from the news article in the OP.
And here's a quote directly from you in your post, RamDragon64.
and this:
So.....you're saying you did NOT accidentally, or in any other way, activate the trigger?
I have no intention of belittling you or arguing, I'm just trying to understand what the information is that you're trying to get across.
And here's a quote directly from you in your post, RamDragon64.
and this:
So.....you're saying you did NOT accidentally, or in any other way, activate the trigger?
I have no intention of belittling you or arguing, I'm just trying to understand what the information is that you're trying to get across.
What all the dancing can't get around is that if that guy had had a DA/safety gun, that incident would have been much less likely.
Go ahead and say such incidents shouldn't happen, yeah, and car accidents should never happen either. Considering the huge, irreversible, bad side effects of an AD/ND, I'll take a DA/safety gun.
Go ahead and say such incidents shouldn't happen, yeah, and car accidents should never happen either. Considering the huge, irreversible, bad side effects of an AD/ND, I'll take a DA/safety gun.
If he didn't have any gun at all it would have been safer still. You can what-if any scenario to death. "Well yeah, he pulled the trigger a little by accident but if it was so and so gun it wouldn't have been enough to fire..." The best bet is to keep your finger off the trigger.
General Lee
Member
If you can't handle a gun don't buy a gun. Stop with the I hate such and such gun posts because such and such is a moron and shoots such and such in the such and such. :banghead:
Whalerman, you are wrong about Glock being a double action pistol.
http://members.cox.net/guntraining/glocks.htm
http://members.cox.net/guntraining/glocks.htm
Purgatory
Member
I've always heard Glock's action referred to as a DA/SA.
It's really both or, more accurately, neither.
Glock refers to it as 'Safe Action.'
The difference between an XD trigger and a Glock trigger really exemplifies the difference between a true striker-fired 'single action' and the Glock 'Safe Action.'
When you chamber a round or work the slide on a Glock and cock the striker, the striker is then half to 3/4 of the way fully cocked.
Then, when you pull the trigger, all of the integral Glock safeties are disengaged like clockwork while the striker is ultimately drawn the rest of the way back and then released.
So, technically, Glock's action can't fit into either box nicely.
It's just a Glock 'Safe Action.'
Pretty amazing, really.
-But, I digress.
It's really both or, more accurately, neither.
Glock refers to it as 'Safe Action.'
The difference between an XD trigger and a Glock trigger really exemplifies the difference between a true striker-fired 'single action' and the Glock 'Safe Action.'
When you chamber a round or work the slide on a Glock and cock the striker, the striker is then half to 3/4 of the way fully cocked.
Then, when you pull the trigger, all of the integral Glock safeties are disengaged like clockwork while the striker is ultimately drawn the rest of the way back and then released.
So, technically, Glock's action can't fit into either box nicely.
It's just a Glock 'Safe Action.'
Pretty amazing, really.
-But, I digress.
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Purgatory
Member
Are you just an outright Glock Hater, Paul7, or have you used them for years and come to your very opinionated conclusions?
The "little thingy in front of the Glock trigger" is exactly what keeps the trigger from being depressed unintentionally by random objects or even a finger at an imprecise angle.
The Glock trigger 'guard' is about 3/4 of an inch wide.
The Glock 'trigger' is close to a 1/2 inch wide and the "little thingy in front of the Glock trigger" is about as wide as a popsicle stick.
If anything, including a finger at an imprecise angle, depresses the trigger without completely depressing the "little thingy," the trigger will not operate.
So, yeah, it's pretty useless.
So useless that many other manufacturers have copied the design.
The "little thingy in front of the Glock trigger" is exactly what keeps the trigger from being depressed unintentionally by random objects or even a finger at an imprecise angle.
The Glock trigger 'guard' is about 3/4 of an inch wide.
The Glock 'trigger' is close to a 1/2 inch wide and the "little thingy in front of the Glock trigger" is about as wide as a popsicle stick.
If anything, including a finger at an imprecise angle, depresses the trigger without completely depressing the "little thingy," the trigger will not operate.
So, yeah, it's pretty useless.
So useless that many other manufacturers have copied the design.
RatherNotSay
Member
If it's such a gimmick than why are other manufactures like walther, ruger, smith and wesson, and even some savage rifles incorporating them. Well S&W has a "pivot" action to it but it's the same concept.
Purgatory
Member
....and Marlin and Springfield Armory.
GreenSkyy87
Member
It has already been covered by others but I will answer you directly so you will understand where my statements came from.
I did not assume that your finger was in the trigger guard. I knew it was because we all read a story about a negligent discharge. That gun will not go off unless the trigger is pulled. It went off. Trigger was pulled. When the trigger was pulled, your finger was on it. If your finger was on the trigger, then it was inside the trigger guard.
If the gun was slipping and you tightened your grasp, the gun would not have gone off if your index finger was straight out and rigid. This is where we the untrained user comment comes in. If you were a trained user, a number of things would have happened differently.
A) You would have assumed the weapon was loaded
B) You would have known the proper way to clear the weapon
C) When the gun started to slip, you would have put both hands up, stepped away and let the gun fall.
D) You would not have had you finger anywhere near the trigger if you ignored C.
E) You would not have had a ND.
Unless you left out some details from your story, or changed your story, the reasons above spell out quite clearly why what happened was in fact caused by negligence and why in fact you do not handle a handgun like a trained user.
Even if your story changes, you still would have had to not follow one of the lettered guidelines above that a trained user would have. Example - gun fell out of your hands and you grasped for it. You still did not follow D and C, and E still happened.
Bonesinium
Member
I figured I'd post this, you know, just because...
Accident:
an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss; casualty; mishap
or
any event that happens unexpectedly, without a deliberate plan
That is all.
Accident:
an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss; casualty; mishap
or
any event that happens unexpectedly, without a deliberate plan
That is all.
This is the usual stuff. People have their knee jerk reactions to Glock. They can't seem to understand a weapon that works like this. It was new, revolutionary. They are required to hate them. It started out with how they were built, then the caliber, now they've moved on to triggers, sights, blocky looks, colors, holsters, the fact that they can't make breakfast, the criticisms are endless. The only thing I don't like about mine is it doesn't work well with bi-pods and bayonets. And even though I've never had a malfunction, I know it's coming. I just know it. And in advance I hate the gun for letting me down when it happens.
Paul, I've shot Glocks for years and DA is a fairly accurate description. It is striker fired, but the action is safe, making a traditional safety a wee bit dumb, just as it would be on a DA revolver. But people look at it differently. Especially people who are desperately seeking a reason to hate Glocks.
Paul, I've shot Glocks for years and DA is a fairly accurate description. It is striker fired, but the action is safe, making a traditional safety a wee bit dumb, just as it would be on a DA revolver. But people look at it differently. Especially people who are desperately seeking a reason to hate Glocks.
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Mick45
Member
The best safety is between your ears
The best safety is between your ears. You must press the trigger to clear a glock in order to dissasemble it. I'll bet anything that this guy was "clearing" his glock prior to dissasembly or something and forgot to check the chamber (mistake number one for him). A good guess because the gun was pointing down when it discharged, the way people are often taught to point it when clearing it. Stupid to do in an upstairs unit (mistake number two for him), but a general habit for glock people to point down when clearing (supposed to point in a safe direction). I mean, what are the odds that it was pointing downward of all directions. It could have been pointing any of 360 degrees around or any upward angle when he "caught" it, including at himself or down towards his feet, but just happend to be pointing downward and away from his feet. Also, accidentally "hooking" a glock trigger with it's tiny lever safety, while not impossible is hard to do in the manner in which he discribes without putting your finger completely through the trigger guard and squeezing it fairly hard at just the right angle. I tried twirling mine, sixgun style (unloaded of course)(tripple checked), and could twirl it like crazy without pulling the trigger. I think he was clearing his gun, he pressed the trigger, and it went bang, and he lied to the cops to hide his culpability. Alot of gun people have had a ND. Almost no one has had two. I bet he starts double checking the chamber now. Nothing like a ND to make you start double checking your gun before you dryfire it. Mick
P.S. you have to break at least two of the gun safety rules to hurt someone with a ND, and this guy broke at least two. Lets see, "always check the gun to see if it's loaded", "always assume it's loaded anyway", "always point in a safe direction when not purposely shooting it", "keep your finger out of the trigger guard untill you're intentionally shooting it", "if you must dryfire it as with a glock to clear it, dryfire it at something that will stop the bullet", etc., etc... He's very lucky no one died.
The best safety is between your ears. You must press the trigger to clear a glock in order to dissasemble it. I'll bet anything that this guy was "clearing" his glock prior to dissasembly or something and forgot to check the chamber (mistake number one for him). A good guess because the gun was pointing down when it discharged, the way people are often taught to point it when clearing it. Stupid to do in an upstairs unit (mistake number two for him), but a general habit for glock people to point down when clearing (supposed to point in a safe direction). I mean, what are the odds that it was pointing downward of all directions. It could have been pointing any of 360 degrees around or any upward angle when he "caught" it, including at himself or down towards his feet, but just happend to be pointing downward and away from his feet. Also, accidentally "hooking" a glock trigger with it's tiny lever safety, while not impossible is hard to do in the manner in which he discribes without putting your finger completely through the trigger guard and squeezing it fairly hard at just the right angle. I tried twirling mine, sixgun style (unloaded of course)(tripple checked), and could twirl it like crazy without pulling the trigger. I think he was clearing his gun, he pressed the trigger, and it went bang, and he lied to the cops to hide his culpability. Alot of gun people have had a ND. Almost no one has had two. I bet he starts double checking the chamber now. Nothing like a ND to make you start double checking your gun before you dryfire it. Mick
P.S. you have to break at least two of the gun safety rules to hurt someone with a ND, and this guy broke at least two. Lets see, "always check the gun to see if it's loaded", "always assume it's loaded anyway", "always point in a safe direction when not purposely shooting it", "keep your finger out of the trigger guard untill you're intentionally shooting it", "if you must dryfire it as with a glock to clear it, dryfire it at something that will stop the bullet", etc., etc... He's very lucky no one died.
RatherNotSay
Member
GreenSkyy87
Member
I've seen those before. Have actually thought about getting one just for a novelty item and joke.
I hope that is what they were intended for, but sometime inside me tells me that it was Gecko45 and his buddies that designed this for serious combat use. :banghead:
"If it's such a gimmick than why are other manufactures like walther, ruger, smith and wesson, and even some savage rifles incorporating them. Well S&W has a "pivot" action to it but it's the same concept."
Got me, those guns don't interest me either. How is it the trigger would be pulled without also pulling the gimmick thingy? How did that 'safety' work out in the OP incident?
I am not a Glock hater, I have had them and was unimpressed. They look like the spawn between a gun and a 2x4, there are other guns that feel better in the hand, are not super accurate IMHO, and neither of the ones I had were reliable, one even after spending months at the factory. They were a big deal when they first came out, but today, meh.
Got me, those guns don't interest me either. How is it the trigger would be pulled without also pulling the gimmick thingy? How did that 'safety' work out in the OP incident?
I am not a Glock hater, I have had them and was unimpressed. They look like the spawn between a gun and a 2x4, there are other guns that feel better in the hand, are not super accurate IMHO, and neither of the ones I had were reliable, one even after spending months at the factory. They were a big deal when they first came out, but today, meh.
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