Why I'm no longer afraid of Gang Bangers.

[J.A.D.]

Wednesday night, my wife and I did dinner with some friends. They left around 10:40, and I noticed a black SUV in front of the building across the street on the corner. Within a couple of minutes, they left. About 40 minutes later, I hear 10 shots being fired from across the street. I get out of the bedroom in time to see this baggy pants, and white t-shirt wearing retard firing a shot.

At Point... Blank... Range... 10 shots were fired, and guess what? Not one person was hit.

Which explains how a bullet hit my house. Purely by accident.

I no longer fear gang bangers. I worry though that by accident, someone on the next block over might actually hit my house again, because they couldn't hit me if they were actually aiming.

 

[Smoovbiscuit]

Where do you live?

 

[4thPointOfContact]

A bullet addressed "To Whom It May Concern" is just as deadly.

I don't fear lightning, but I'm not climbing any tall oak trees while it's storming, either.

 

[catnphx]

That's usually why gang bangers use high capacity weapons ... they can't shoot.

 

[heeler]

Be afraid of them.
They generally have no conscience.
And bullet has no address.

 

[PTT]

A bullet addressed "To Whom It May Concern" is just as deadly.

I don't fear lightning, but I'm not climbing any tall oak trees while it's storming, either.

That's great, I'm going to use that in my classes when teaching gun safety.

 

[M-Cameron]

he wasnt by any chance using the "upside down gangsta" style, was he?

 

[lemaymiami]

If a 14 year old kid with a gun doesn't scare you... you've led a sheltered life.

My first armed robbery arrest (all those years ago) was a drunken trio of young guys that held up a convenience store for $47 (if I remember correctly). They had three weapons (mostly junk iron and a .22 rifle). What I very clearly remember (this was in 1974...) was that the guy in the back seat fired a shot that went through the front seat and into the dashboard of the car, between his two companions...

If idiots with guns don't scare you, they ought to...

 

[BFC]

I don't think the odds are in my favor of winning the lottery but I still buy a ticket every once in a while............

 

[colt1911fan]

He must not have had any of these

:banghead:

 

[Sam1911]

That's usually why gang bangers use high capacity weapons ... they can't shoot.

Some things I've said before:

There are some common misconceptions about "the bad guys" which include the idea that they are ignorant, they don't practice, they're cowards, their weapons are lousy, etc. None of those things is universally true. Some studies have indicated that certain violent criminals do take the time to practice with their guns more often than the average police officer or gun-owning citizen.

The truth is, at bad-breath distance, your beautiful marksmanship form and pinpoint accuracy may easily be defeated by a thug with a Hi-Point (on it's side!) and a willingness to use it. He may not know a lot about guns, but chances are he's a veteran of several shootings and knows how to fight quick and dirty. There are some studies floating around here that indicate that a significant percentage of criminals get MORE practice with their guns -- and more "practical" practice -- than do most police offices or many armed citizens. Their gun may be just a tool, and their techniques might make them look ignorant to our eyes, but chances are they know what they're doing.

This whole thread: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=6422618#post6422618

Specifically:

Thanks uspJ. This is a valuable insight, and I completely agree with your assessment of our communal preconceived ideas about the criminals we may meet.

"They're stupid. They're lazy. They are armed with worthless, unreliable, and (by implication) less dangerous eek firearms. They don't even know how their guns work or what kind of ammo they should buy. They don't know how to shoot and never practice. They are cowards and will flee if their victim defends himself."

Oh really? There are people that are better or worse at their jobs than others in every walk of life. Stands to reason the same would be true for violent criminals as well.

Preparing for, or assuming that you will face the very worst of the lot is not a very sound strategy.

There have been studies of prison populations which indicated that some criminals practiced with their guns more often than did the local law enforcement officers. And that their practice was more applicable to their (nefarious) uses than static range "qualifying" would be.

Seriously good post!...

And remember, the best shooter will experience something like a 50-75% degradation of his/her expected accuracy during the stress of a violent encounter, and will usually tend to fire as fast as humanly possible until the slide locks back or the revolver has "clicked" through a couple of empty cylinders. All those bullets land somewhere.

 

[Kleanbore]

Sam nailed it.

The misconception keeps getting propagated and is widely accepted as fact by people who have no basis with which to know.

Part of it has to do with how many shots miss there intended targets. When one is firing from a moving car at someone twenty yards away, there are going to be some misses. That hasn't seemed to reduce the number of people intentionally shot down.

 

[06]

Have never seen a thug carrying a Kimber/etc. unless they just stole it. Had two "Para P-14s" stolen myself. Have seen plenty of "9s" and sometimes just junk---they will still kill you and the closer they are the less chance of them missing you. The local sheriff has a ten foot glassed in board of confiscated weapons. Several of them are cut down single barreled shot guns. Anywhere close up and you are toast with those things.

 

[1911Tuner]

And a point to keep in mind...and one that I make often...is that even with an idiot who can't shoot, you have to be lucky every time he pulls the trigger. He only has to get lucky once.

 

[RonC]

My understanding, and it is limited by some internet ramblings, that some gangs encourage members to go into the military to learn weapons handling and tactics. That is frightening if correct, so please correct me if I am wrong - and I would be happy to be wrong in this case.

Ron

 

[Creature]

And what if next time they aren't aiming directly at you?

....are you going to be afraid then?

 

[we are not amused]

My understanding, and it is limited by some internet ramblings, that some gangs encourage members to go into the military to learn weapons handling and tactics. That is frightening if correct, so please correct me if I am wrong - and I would be happy to be wrong in this case.

Ron

I've heard that too, I think its mostly BS, told by a bunch anti-military jerks, who think only losers enlist in the military.

I have a nephew who is currently serving, and I asked him about it. His opinion was a real gang-banger would last about half-way through his first day in basic training. He knows several people with gang related backgrounds, but they all joined to get away from the gangs. The military is a little picky about letting people with criminal records sign up.

There are easier ways of getting gun training than joining the military.

 

[we are not amused]

I think the original poster was being a bit sarcastic, but his point is well taken.

Many of them are very lousy shooters, especially drive-byes.

The biggest danger is probably to innocent bystanders.

I pray for the day when residents on the block where a drive by occurs, open their doors and riddle the fleeing car with bullets. That would be the last drive by in that neighborhood, probably in the city.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

I've heard that too, I think its mostly BS, told by a bunch anti-military jerks, who think only losers enlist in the military.

military authorities would disagree

http://militarytimes.com/static/projects/pages/ngic_gangs.pdf

 

[we are not amused]

I've heard that too, I think its mostly BS, told by a bunch anti-military jerks, who think only losers enlist in the military.

military authorities would disagree

http://militarytimes.com/static/projects/pages/ngic_gangs.pdf

I read it, 10,309 criminal incidents in 2006, investigated by the CID. Only 16 of them were gang related.
WOW! The military is full of Gang Bangers! I'm scared!

There have always been criminals in the military, just as there have been in the police, or just about any other organization you can name.
When this first hit the News Media some years ago, I asked my Nephew, who had at that time just gone through basic, he thought it was non-sense, and he still does. While he knows of some who came from a gang background, they joined to get out of the gangs! Several other vets and active service members I know have said much the same, they were the ones who used the Phrase "anti-military jerks", ( well some of them did use some what more colorful language)
I am more concerned about the Gangs infiltrating the police and Justice system.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

hmmm
you read it differently than i did

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/justicelawlegislation/a/gangs_3.htm

There are indicators that gangs remain active in some military communities. During FY 2006, the CID initiated 16 gang investigations and reported 44 gang related incidents which occurred on Army installations or in Army communities.


http://thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/4070-gangs-still-active-in-us-military

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/07/28/eveningnews/main3107316.shtml

http://www.military.com/news/article/gangs-increasing-in-military-fbi-says.html

http://www.star-telegram.com/2010/09/09/2456950/gangs-in-the-military-pose-problem.html

http://www.stripes.com/news/fbi-say...-using-military-to-spread-their-reach-1.57718

 

[Kleanbore]

My understanding, and it is limited by some internet ramblings, that some gangs encourage members to go into the military to learn weapons handling and tactics. That is frightening if correct, so please correct me if I am wrong - and I would be happy to be wrong in this case.

As indicated in the links posted above, there are indications that there is some level of gang activity within the military, and while that is a problem for the military it has little to do with the question at hand.

What is relevant is that there are undoubtedly criminals on the streets who have had military training and combat experience, and whether or not they were gang members is beside the point. By the way, that experience could have been gained on the US Military or in Columbian or Mexican service, or in fighting for Bosnia, Chechnya, or Russia.

Beyond firearms experience, there is also hand to hand and contact weapon and tactical training available in prisons all over the country.

The point is, there is a widespread belief that bad guys are unskilled, and while that is likely true for many of them, there have been enough actual armed encounters with law enforcement in which that has not proved true to make it a very poor generalization.

That someone saw someone else firing ten shots at 10:40 at night without hitting anyone is most certainly nothing on which a reliable conclusion can be based.

 

[Creature]

...and has the idea ever occurred to you that the fact that no one was hit more than likely means that the shooter did not intend on actually hitting anyone?

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by Creature: ...and has the idea ever occurred to you that the fact that no one was hit more than likely means that the shooter did not intend on actually hitting anyone?

The thought certainly crossed my mind.

 

[Creature]

Kleanbore...not sure, but I was addressing the OP in case you thought I was addressing your post.