Will We Sit at the Table?

[HOOfan_1]

And not all that wrong! The fight at Lexington and Concord was about preventing the British from disarming the American Militias. the American Revolution arguably started with an attempted act of gun control.

That was in 1775 though

Here is why: Tea Party crazies and others, screaming about taking away "entitlements". Stay with me here, as several have already marked upon it.
.

That has become the meat of arguments between two sides of any debate these days. Call the other side crazy and completely dismiss them.

Too bad some gun owners even want to degrade the NRA...because it is the NRA which gives us the chance to be heard.

I am tired of all this "the NRA has legislature by the balls" talk. If that were the case, then we wouldn't have to worry about the 2nd amendment.

Too many gun owners are only concerned about their own interests, and not concerned enough with the fact that the antis don't want to stop with what the Zumbos of the world consider "reasonable" gun control. The antis want it all...and the pros need to draw a line in the sand.

 

[we are not amused]

No, we will probably not have a place at the table anymore, unfortunately.

Here is why: Tea Party crazies and others, screaming about taking away "entitlements". Stay with me here, as several have already marked upon it.

Mentally ill people with guns have become a serious problem in the US, in the last 30 years particularly: 30 years ago we started to close down the publicly funded mental healthcare facilities. Now, we are reaping the crop of unstable and anti-social people.

We have gone from detection/treatment and housing facilities for the mentally ill, to warehousing them in prison after the fact (criminal activity). Now, if you think that's just a bunch of Socialist/liberal hogwash, go to your state's Dept. of Corrections website and find the phone # for information or the Stats. page: 35-80% of your state's prison inmates have been declared mentally ill by professionals, after the crime instead of before.

Peace and prayers to the effected families and the first responders who were there yesterday on scene.

I will point out that those "Tea Party crazies" are some of the best and most active pro-gun people out there.

Secondly, it was not "Tea Party crazies" who shut down the mental hospitals and sanitariums, but "Liberal do gooders" who thought that putting "crazies" in mental institutions was degrading and not good for the patients. And that keeping them in the "Community" was a good thing, or allowing them to live on the streets as homeless people.

I Strongly suggest you keep your partisan comments to your self, as they have no place here.

 

[Sam1911]

Mentally ill people with guns have become a serious problem in the US

Let's rephrase that...
"Mentally ill people with guns have become [strike]a serious[/strike] a still quite rare, in fact statistically insignificant, but high-profile "problem" in the US..."

In truth, like "terrorism" and several other headline-grabbing phenomena, these are the things we the people choose to obsess over, and which we allow to distract us from the vastly more present and likely risks to life and "security" we face every single day, but which don't have the visceral, gut-wrenching punch of a one-in-a-billion tragedy like happened in CT.

 

[we are not amused]

That was in 1775 though [/Qote]
True, but his heart was in the right place.

That has become the meat of arguments between two sides of any debate these days. Call the other side crazy and completely dismiss them.

So true, and I try very hard not to dismiss Liberal nut jobs on this site, as long as they support the right to keep and bear arms. It is hard though...

Too bad some gun owners even want to degrade the NRA...because it is the NRA which gives us the chance to be heard.

I am tired of all this "the NRA has legislature by the balls" talk. If that were the case, then we wouldn't have to worry about the 2nd amendment.

Too many gun owners are only concerned about their own interests, and not concerned enough with the fact that the antis don't want to stop with what the Zumbos of the world consider "reasonable" gun control. The antis want it all...and the pros need to draw a line in the sand.

I agree, this thread got started by someone commenting that we had to keep the Ted Nugents and the Wayne LaPierres from the table.

I sincerely hope that all the talk and bluster from the gun control advocates goes nowhere, but we need every resource we can use.

If you don't know who your congressional representatives are, find out! Get their contact numbers on your phone, and use them!

If they don't support your views on firearm ownership, work to get them out and someone who does in!

Join the NRA! Join the Second Amendment Foundation! The GOA, JPFO, heck, even the Pink Pistols! (at least send them money)

And don't bash your allies in the Right to Keep and Bear Arms movement!:banghead:

 

[Deanimator]

I have no more desire to talk with anti-gunners about instituting more repressive gun controls than I do to talk with the Aryan Brotherhood about reinstating slavery.

The answer is "NO".

 

[Lucifer_Sam]

Let's rephrase that...
"Mentally ill people with guns have become [strike]a serious[/strike] a still quite rare, in fact statistically insignificant, but high-profile "problem" in the US..."

In truth, like "terrorism" and several other headline-grabbing phenomena, these are the things we the people choose to obsess over, and which we allow to distract us from the vastly more present and likely risks to life and "security" we face every single day, but which don't have the visceral, gut-wrenching punch of a one-in-a-billion tragedy like happened in CT.

Yep, thats pretty much it. Media obsession with ratings, people rubbernecking others tragedy.

Just looking at the numbers here:

http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/medical.htm

I'd say the chances of getting struck by lightning are considerably greater than being involved in a mass shooting.

 

[lobo9er]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam1911
Let's rephrase that...
"Mentally ill people with guns have become a serious a still quite rare, in fact statistically insignificant, but high-profile "problem" in the US..."

In truth, like "terrorism" and several other headline-grabbing phenomena, these are the things we the people choose to obsess over, and which we allow to distract us from the vastly more present and likely risks to life and "security" we face every single day, but which don't have the visceral, gut-wrenching punch of a one-in-a-billion tragedy like happened in CT.

yep

 

[Pilot]

The media and the politicians that want more control over us will try to use this massacre to further the gun ban/restrictions in the U.S. just like Australia used the 1996 Port Authur massacre in Tazmanai to their similar ends.

The only thing that is different is we have 2A which was affirmed by the Supreme Court, and our voices, and votes.

 

[22-rimfire]

Mentally ill people with guns have become a serious problem in the US, in the last 30 years particularly: 30 years ago we started to close down the publicly funded mental healthcare facilities. Now, we are reaping the crop of unstable and anti-social people.

Mentally ill people with guns would be a problem; especially a lot of them. But define mentally ill and who is going to determine that I am not mentally ill or you? Is that cause worth spending millions of dollars for a very tiny fraction of gun owners or do you have another motive? I suspect that statiscally there are very few certifed mentally ill people that own firearms that would EVER do what was done at the Sandy Hook school.

 

[David White]

Here's a thought.... How about we give the antis nothing, nada, zero, zip!

Do me a favor... Don't barter away my rights...

 

[HoosierQ]

Well to be be clear, my post about Ted Nugent and Wayne LaPierre was, regettably a bit of an aside that sort of tripped off my finger tips. Making sure WE are at the table and the WE talk about what to do and how to react is the point I wish to say.

I am thankful that it has been pointed out to me (and of course which I should have known) that LaPierre talks like he does in front of us to rally the troops if you will. His arguments in front of politicians are much more "professiona". Ted? God bless 'em...he's our guy but he argues poorly I think. He's way to easy to marginalize...but hey, sure, if he can articulate what we need to say, I am ok with him too.

I regret having dragged these folks into this in a negative light.

 

[lobo9er]

I thought ted was going to be dead if Obama was re-elected. I am not a fan of ted representing me. but ted is a side note to this thread.

 

[MarshallDodge]

Not a single gun control act that is in place now or in the future would have prevented the tragedy yesterday. The deranged man wanted to kill people. He could have used all kinds of means to do it but he picked a gun. If a gun were not available would that have stopped the tragedy? I doubt it.

A gun enabled him to kill a lot of innocent people but what if he were to go down to the gas station, purchase large quantities of gasoline, and burn the school down with people inside? What if he did like the terrorists on 9/11 and fly a plane into the building? How about blowing up a school bus?

I am more unhappy with the fact the all of the adults inside the building were unarmed and it was against the law for them to even the odds with a concealed firearm of their own. If a couple of them had been armed then I am sure the outcome would be different today.

 

[hso]

While each mass shooting this year and in recent years is tragic and catastrophic to the victims, their families and friends and their communities we can't loose sight of the fact that in a nation of three hundred million plus the criminally insane young men who have carried out each of these heinous crimes constitute a group that is infinitesimally small in this country. Even if we took all of these murders the group is smaller than the statistical fluctuation in determining the 311,000,000 population of the U.S. The 5 of them this year constitute less than
1.6e-6 % of the population. Or 0.00000016%.

Treating 100% of us as if we were criminally insane instead of the 0.00000016% makes absolutely no sense at all when the root cause of mass shootings is that these very few criminally insane young men were not managed in such a way to keep themselves and the public safe from their mental illness.

We need to call for the removal of the stigma of mental health treatment, actively seek out and treat people evidencing signs of dangerous mental health problems and when called for, as in the case of Lanza, Loughner, Cho, and others, protect the public from them by segregating them from the public until they are safe to return to society.

That's what the firearms community needs to be calling for in the face of these shootings.

 

[splithoof]

I was out in public all day yesterday: at a major medical facility, post office standing in line, grocery store, restaurant, and some major retailers. At every one, I overheard numerous conversations between ordinary folks calling for repealing of the second amendment. I did not chime in, but just listened intently. They all seemed to be about the same: they were tired of the carnage, that there were simply too many guns out there, military weapons that no civilian should own, too much ammo, internet sales, etc. Several said gun ownership was no longer worth the trouble, and they had found other interests. I have NEVER heard so much negative conversation about guns before, so I truly believe something is likely to come down.
We had better be at the table, and had better be ready. The folks in Washington were given a mandate via the last election, so you can bet they want to deliver.

 

[RDCL]

For a long time I'd always thought that Mark Keefe would be the perfect spokesman on behalf of we gun owners and the 2nd amendment.

For those whom may not know, Mr. Keefe host a TV show called "American Rifleman Tv" on the Outdoor Channel.

I know he'd likely never do it.....but this is the guy I wish major news media types would have on in regards to gun control discussions and 2nd rights. The man is highly intelligent, well spoken, and is very good in front of the camera and microphone.

Honestly, I cannot think of anyone better.

(Except Larry Potterfield maybe)


Russ

 

[hso]

I'm not sure where you were, but we were out all day as well and heard nothing at the restaurant at lunch, Lowes, "the mall", or the liquor store. But then I'm in East Tennessee where the attitudes about firearms and personal responsibility tend to be very libertarian.

 

[k_dawg]

Others have tried to rationally discuss with another charasmatic socialist leader. It was not very successful.

 

[splithoof]

hso: I was all day in Los Angeles County. That kind of talk and attitude I would expect there, but not to the extent I heard it.

 

[Deanimator]

At every one, I overheard numerous conversations between ordinary folks calling for repealing of the second amendment.

I wouldn't care how many people I heard calling for a repeal of the 13th Amendment, I still wouldn't wouldn't "sit down at the table" to discuss a return to slavery, of ANY sort. I certainly wouldn't pick cotton without pay, no matter what they wanted.

Some people are just constantly searching for somebody to which to submit.

 

[hso]

in Los Angeles County

Ahhhh, regional differences. Understood.

Remember we're in a political and culture struggle and winning the culture struggle is important in winning the political struggle. The Antis will use numbers cherry picked to support their emotional argument that the public must be protected. We shouldn't hesitate to use emotional arguments based on careful analysis of all the information to sway the public and the politicians. We can't fold our arms and say the problem is just too small to make changes on the national level, but we can define what changes should be made to keep from treating all of us as the worst of us.

 

[dcarch]

We must all hang together, or certainly we will all hang separately. This includes the hunters, competition shooters, SASS guys, handgunners, the "old farts", the recreational shooters, law enforcement, and yes, even the tacticool crowd. We CAN'T be broken up into smaller groups. And mark my words, that's exactly what they're gonna try. We have to think, act, and respond as gun owners, not as any member of any smaller subgroup. Period.

 

[splithoof]

Deanimator: You can go ahead and sit outside while the meeting takes place; I'm sure the others will speak for you. As you know, the folks in Washington really do know what's better. After all, we put them there to handle these kinds of things.

 

[jmorris]

I might sit at the table but wouldn't walk away with any further restrictions for thoes of us that abide by the law. Ever wonder why these folks don't walk into a gun range and start shooting people? Anything you give up will only be used against you.

 

[Kachok]

We don't need to compromise anything on gun rights, start treating the mentaly ill and we won't have this problem. Stable people don't do crazy $#!^ like that. Crazy people will kill with a kitchen knive or a baseball bat if they cannot find anything better.