[email protected],
My agency approves all four of mine for both on and off duty as an alternate to the issue Glock.
Ken
My agency approves all four of mine for both on and off duty as an alternate to the issue Glock.
Ken
XD/XDM Flaws..
- Thread starter cwduke08
- Start date
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I actually bought the XD9sc over a Glock 36 way back when. Glocks and XDs are excellent weapons. The XD just fits my hand better, and I shoot it very well. I always laugh when the grip safety is brought up as an XD negative. If a grip safety was that bad, they would of probably removed it from the 1911 years ago.
postalnut25
Member
My department allows them as well. Nobody carries one, but they can if they want. My department is pretty evenly split between Glocks and 1911s. However, I am seeing more M&Ps.
REAPER4206969
Member
If the product is billed as a military and police weapon, then I'm skeptical.
Colt has had innumerable M&P contracts since the cap & ball revolver days. M1873 SAA/M1911/their DA revolvers/Etc.
Ruger has many contracts with prisons, and in 2004 the U.S. military issued a contract for 5,000 P95's.
CZ is in the top three most used M&P pistols in the world, along with Beretta and Glock.
Kimber is a M1911A1 clone, so see Colt. However, even Kimber proper has/had M&P contracts.
Same applies to S&W/Glock/Beretta/SIG/HK/Walther/Etc.
The HS2000 has? One second world military?
Doesn't Springfield Armory supply the F.B.I. Hostage Rescue Team thier .45s?
It seems to me Springfield Armory can obtain LE contracts.
The HS2000 is used by the Croatian Military (Military) & 10,000 were purchased for the Iraqi Police (Police). Is that not a M&P weapon? (source wikipedia)
I'd say considering the pistol has only been around since 1999, it is doing very well.
Shadow 7D
Member
Oh, and so what if they don't compete
they probably make more as a SMALL firm selling at a premium to the top dollar US civilian market
I mean, how many $150 "glock" contract guns would they have to sell to make the same profit as a single XD makes them. To get those contracts Gaston did a LOT of grip and grins and lots of UNDER selling the competition
they probably make more as a SMALL firm selling at a premium to the top dollar US civilian market
I mean, how many $150 "glock" contract guns would they have to sell to make the same profit as a single XD makes them. To get those contracts Gaston did a LOT of grip and grins and lots of UNDER selling the competition
evan price
Member
Oh, yes, the old Bash the XDs because they are not Glocks sales strategy.
My standard comeback to this is to point out that the Glock pistol is a very old design (Over 30 years), was originally designed to be mass-produced as cheaply as possible for a military contract, and in fact it isn't even the standard issue sidearm for the largest armies in the world. It has had a slew of problems over the years including one which has become known about Glocks- the Kaboom- and only sells to law enforcement in numbers because they have to mark it down drastically to make them want to buy it.
Now, I own Glocks, and to me a gun is a tool and not something to base my life and reputation upon. So I really don't care one way or the other. But all those items are factually true, even while perhaps interpreted out of context or overgeneralized.
Your gunstore dude can't even get his facts correct.
My standard comeback to this is to point out that the Glock pistol is a very old design (Over 30 years), was originally designed to be mass-produced as cheaply as possible for a military contract, and in fact it isn't even the standard issue sidearm for the largest armies in the world. It has had a slew of problems over the years including one which has become known about Glocks- the Kaboom- and only sells to law enforcement in numbers because they have to mark it down drastically to make them want to buy it.
Now, I own Glocks, and to me a gun is a tool and not something to base my life and reputation upon. So I really don't care one way or the other. But all those items are factually true, even while perhaps interpreted out of context or overgeneralized.
Your gunstore dude can't even get his facts correct.
.357 magnum
Member
XD and XDm are Excellent Products!
OK I Own 4 XDm's at the present time. Three 9mm and One .45acp. In the past I have owned as many as 3 regular XD's [All .45acp's] I really like the XDm Platform, that Is why I am Exclusively XDm's presently. [There was nothing wrong w/my Regular XD's! ] One time only several years ago I had a Fail to Fire One Cartridge One time in my Regular XD.45acp 4 inch! My Old XD Tactital 5 inch .45 was a Tack Driver! My Experience with my XDm's is Totally Flawless! This involves Several Thousand Rounds Down Range between the Four guns. I can Honestly say Springfield makes an Excellent Product!
The Best to All!
Frank
OK I Own 4 XDm's at the present time. Three 9mm and One .45acp. In the past I have owned as many as 3 regular XD's [All .45acp's] I really like the XDm Platform, that Is why I am Exclusively XDm's presently. [There was nothing wrong w/my Regular XD's! ] One time only several years ago I had a Fail to Fire One Cartridge One time in my Regular XD.45acp 4 inch! My Old XD Tactital 5 inch .45 was a Tack Driver! My Experience with my XDm's is Totally Flawless! This involves Several Thousand Rounds Down Range between the Four guns. I can Honestly say Springfield makes an Excellent Product!
The Best to All!
Frank
.I love my xdm 45. I think it's an excellent platform and as of now I have no issues with it! I just wish 45 ammo was cheaper.. I really don't care to ever go back to bass pro for guns or advice again. I'll just keep doing my own research and buy what's comfortable.
Ps I'm looking at buying a gun for my other half and it'll either be a glock or a revolver!!
Ps I'm looking at buying a gun for my other half and it'll either be a glock or a revolver!!
THE MACHINIST
Member
ive owned the first xd in 45 acp that came out, very accurate gun,reliable, the only thing that gave me trouble was when reassembling it the barrel if out of the slide would jam the gun during reassembly it would lock in place like a last round and you had to use a rubber mallet to bang the slide back off......i guess the barrel would seat in before the locking block on reassembly...other than that it was a very good gun...highly recommended
Tcruse
Member
Back a year or so, a friend was telling me that I should not be looking at Glock and should buy a US made gun like his newly purchased XDm. So, the Springfield name implication is still alive and well. I think that the XDs are probably good and reliable, just not my preference. Calling any gun a POS without supporting facts is just bad judgement. There seem to be some really good sale prices on them recently.
cougar1717
Member
Granted, the salesperson did tell some part-truths or slanted opinions (whichever side you see), but he also did make a very valid point. Springfield Armory does advertise a lot and when they do, it incorporates "the first name in American firearms" slogan or the American flag. To those in the know (or who pay attention), it's easy to see that they are made in Croatia by the stamp.
My LGS makes it plain to his customers while speaking about the great attributes of the XD. I could see how people unfamiliar with SA would think that they are buying something made in America.
I would consider the salesman's statements at least somewhat plausible (for a gun salesman), BUT his sales technique is definitely lacking. If you're in gun sales, I don't care if you're slinging Jennings, Jiminez, or High Point; if the customer specifically asks for a product that you sell, you don't talk down about your stock. You may want to talk them into a purchase that has a few more features or of better quality, but never discourage a sale.
My LGS makes it plain to his customers while speaking about the great attributes of the XD. I could see how people unfamiliar with SA would think that they are buying something made in America.
I would consider the salesman's statements at least somewhat plausible (for a gun salesman), BUT his sales technique is definitely lacking. If you're in gun sales, I don't care if you're slinging Jennings, Jiminez, or High Point; if the customer specifically asks for a product that you sell, you don't talk down about your stock. You may want to talk them into a purchase that has a few more features or of better quality, but never discourage a sale.
redbullitt
Member
I have liked mine... Run with and without suppressor. Run with whatever ammo I have tried. Sure they are not particularly pretty and a they are a little foreign, but they have always worked for me lol.
TheHighRoadDude
Member
I had a coach in middle school that would always tell us, "Opinions are like A**holes, everybody has one, and most of them stink."
Seems to fit the bill for this Gun Store clerk...
Seems to fit the bill for this Gun Store clerk...
I've had less than stellar results with XD45's. I can't comment on other calibers as I haven't shot them.
Picky:
* I have had ammunition that would feed in ALL of my other 45's fine (7 different makes & models) but regularly fail to feed in an XD45. The XD45 has a VERY steep magazine-to-chamber feed angle.
Thinking it was only my handloads that were problematic (was using Golden Saber 185gr), I went through different types of factory ammunition. I had misfeeds with Aguila, Magtech, Sellier & Beloit, and Winchester White Box, all of which were traced to slight inconsistencies in overall length. VERY subtle differences in overall length will make the XD45 switch from a round feeding machine to a stove-piping nightmare (and I'm talking a difference of .001" being significant enough to cause a FTF).
What I found on reloading, was all things being equal (including OAL), the hotter the load, the harder the XD chambers rounds (this is simple physics, obviously). When the slide travels forward (hard, as in after firing), the round is stripped from the magazine. As it moves forward the front of the bullet impacts the frame's half of the feed ramp, which is a two part affair on the XD (the barrel has the other half of the feed ramp). The bullet strikes this lower feed ramp and is deflected upward as the slide continues pushing forward. The round angles upwards and tilts upwards until the bullet strikes the top of the chamber, which begins to deflect the round back down. The harder the recoil, the more likely you are to get a failure to feed stoppage when the bullet impacts the top of the chamber.
I was able to confirm this very easily with the same die setup on Ranier plated round nose - on minimum loads, at standard overall length, the XD45 was 100% reliable. As I approached max, failure to feeds became more and more common, until approaching 20% on the upper end of the power scale. It was bad enough I thought I may have had a lemon - so I pulled a second one from inventory. Had the same exact results.
In addition, when testing various bullet types in different handguns (Ranier 185gr plated, Winchester 185gr FMJ, Remington Golden Saber 185gr), the XD45 shot consistently at the LOWEST velocity overall.
I'll avoid ranting about nit-picky personal opinion stuff, other than to say I really don't care for the trigger pull, the heavy slide release, the blocky feel, or the grip safety. Those may be perfectly fine, or even desireable for some folks, and all the more power to you!
Anyway, I wouldn't carry an XD45. That's my personal opinion based on my own bad experiences with the design. I have no experience with XDM's, or with other calibers, so I'll refrain from passing any judgment.
Picky:
* I have had ammunition that would feed in ALL of my other 45's fine (7 different makes & models) but regularly fail to feed in an XD45. The XD45 has a VERY steep magazine-to-chamber feed angle.
Thinking it was only my handloads that were problematic (was using Golden Saber 185gr), I went through different types of factory ammunition. I had misfeeds with Aguila, Magtech, Sellier & Beloit, and Winchester White Box, all of which were traced to slight inconsistencies in overall length. VERY subtle differences in overall length will make the XD45 switch from a round feeding machine to a stove-piping nightmare (and I'm talking a difference of .001" being significant enough to cause a FTF).
What I found on reloading, was all things being equal (including OAL), the hotter the load, the harder the XD chambers rounds (this is simple physics, obviously). When the slide travels forward (hard, as in after firing), the round is stripped from the magazine. As it moves forward the front of the bullet impacts the frame's half of the feed ramp, which is a two part affair on the XD (the barrel has the other half of the feed ramp). The bullet strikes this lower feed ramp and is deflected upward as the slide continues pushing forward. The round angles upwards and tilts upwards until the bullet strikes the top of the chamber, which begins to deflect the round back down. The harder the recoil, the more likely you are to get a failure to feed stoppage when the bullet impacts the top of the chamber.
I was able to confirm this very easily with the same die setup on Ranier plated round nose - on minimum loads, at standard overall length, the XD45 was 100% reliable. As I approached max, failure to feeds became more and more common, until approaching 20% on the upper end of the power scale. It was bad enough I thought I may have had a lemon - so I pulled a second one from inventory. Had the same exact results.
In addition, when testing various bullet types in different handguns (Ranier 185gr plated, Winchester 185gr FMJ, Remington Golden Saber 185gr), the XD45 shot consistently at the LOWEST velocity overall.
I'll avoid ranting about nit-picky personal opinion stuff, other than to say I really don't care for the trigger pull, the heavy slide release, the blocky feel, or the grip safety. Those may be perfectly fine, or even desireable for some folks, and all the more power to you!
Anyway, I wouldn't carry an XD45. That's my personal opinion based on my own bad experiences with the design. I have no experience with XDM's, or with other calibers, so I'll refrain from passing any judgment.
Narwhal
Member
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2010
- Messages
- 261
Sam1911 said:
Incorrect. The M&P is NOT fully cocked until the trigger is pulled.
References:
Shooting Times: Smith & Wesson M&P: A Semiautomatic Pistol Worthy Of Its Name
Shooting Times said:
Dun Burwell, renown M&P gunsmith
Dun Burwell said:
And finally, S&W itself
Smith & Wesson said:
Yes, the M&P striker is mostly cocked (90%+) prior to trigger pull, but not FULLY, and that's just enough to allow the pistol to be marketed as DAO and therefore permissible as a duty weapon for most LE agencies.
As for the Xd, I think many people resent being sold a $300 HS2000 for $600+ just because it has a flashy logo and brand name slapped on the side of it (yeah yeah, "improvements" were made by SAI). I'm not going to say it's a bad pistol, but the marketing aspect is a major turn-off to a lot of people (Big Xd logo stickers on the back of people's cars, etc). A lot of Xd shooters are real "in your face" types when it comes to touting the virtues of their preferred pistol over all others, which becomes laughable when most of them don't even realize the history of the pistol or Springfield Armory, Inc as a company.
Valkman
Member
I have had stellar results with my reloads and everything else in my 2 XD45's - that salesman is a jerk!
dcarch
Member
As they would say in the old country (Ireland): What an eedjit!
LawScholar
Member
I like the XD quite a lot, and the XDM, but SA DOES engage in deceptive practices when they market. Yes, it says Croatia in the side, but doesn't it say U.S.A. larger? And doesn't SA run ads that say stuff like "The first name in American firearms"?
My former Marine pal was even duped by it. He proudly showed me his XD-45 and then decried my Beretta, admonishing me to buy American. I'd have told him the truth, but the XD-45 is a fine weapon and he has done far more for this country than me, so I let him think SA is American made, but I don't appreciate SA's marketing to that effect.
My former Marine pal was even duped by it. He proudly showed me his XD-45 and then decried my Beretta, admonishing me to buy American. I'd have told him the truth, but the XD-45 is a fine weapon and he has done far more for this country than me, so I let him think SA is American made, but I don't appreciate SA's marketing to that effect.
Apocalypse-Now
Member
after owning an XD, i wholeheartedly agree.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HS2000#Users
I know it's wikipedia, but it's still pretty easy to find. The HS2000 was developed for the croatian army.
Complete opinion. The Glock is renowned as one of the best semi-automatic handguns on the market, and is the model for which most modern handguns are made from.
They're made in Croatia (as said above) and this isn't the original Springfield, but that doesn't mean anything.
I've never had an issue with it failing due to multiple safety mechanisms.
I can't speak on this.
So?
When?
This guy sounds like a know-it-all jerk who only wants people to buy the gun he has, to validate his choice in the gun.
Jim Watson
Member
Q: ...how about the M&Ps striker?
A: Mostly cocked
pulling the trigger rotates the sear downwards, the angle on the rear face of the sear causes a caming action against the striker moving the striker to the rear very slightly, thus finishing the "cocking".
I agree.
The stock Plastic M&P sear cams the striker back about as far as the sear cams the hammer on a CZ75. Just enough for them to advertise as equivalent to Glock or DA.
My personal Burwellized PM&P and gunsmithed CZ75 have a lot less camback.
But they still don't go off by themselves.
I kind of like the XDm but would only get the 9mm.
I have not heard of problems like Trent's with XD 45s around here but still think that European guns are best in European calibers. (But I shoot a 9mm Colt 1991A1 regularly. Oh, well, consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.)
A: Mostly cocked
pulling the trigger rotates the sear downwards, the angle on the rear face of the sear causes a caming action against the striker moving the striker to the rear very slightly, thus finishing the "cocking".
I agree.
The stock Plastic M&P sear cams the striker back about as far as the sear cams the hammer on a CZ75. Just enough for them to advertise as equivalent to Glock or DA.
My personal Burwellized PM&P and gunsmithed CZ75 have a lot less camback.
But they still don't go off by themselves.
I kind of like the XDm but would only get the 9mm.
I have not heard of problems like Trent's with XD 45s around here but still think that European guns are best in European calibers. (But I shoot a 9mm Colt 1991A1 regularly. Oh, well, consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.)
Link to XDTalk
Here's where there is a list of agencies either issuing or apporoving the XD.
http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/leo-talk/153649-any-agencies-issuing-xd-xdm.html
It does not say "Made in USA". it says "Made in Croatia". The USA is immediately behind the words "Springfield Armory", which is a USA company. "Geneseo, Il" is the same size as the "Made in Croatia". Don't accuse SA of being deceptive because people don't completely read things, or have difficulty comprending the words... Is it deceptive that the headquarters isn't in Springfield, but actualy is in Geneseo?
Many Glock products are made in the USA now. Are they being deceptive because some still thinks they do all thier work in Austria?
Here's where there is a list of agencies either issuing or apporoving the XD.
http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/leo-talk/153649-any-agencies-issuing-xd-xdm.html
It does not say "Made in USA". it says "Made in Croatia". The USA is immediately behind the words "Springfield Armory", which is a USA company. "Geneseo, Il" is the same size as the "Made in Croatia". Don't accuse SA of being deceptive because people don't completely read things, or have difficulty comprending the words... Is it deceptive that the headquarters isn't in Springfield, but actualy is in Geneseo?
Many Glock products are made in the USA now. Are they being deceptive because some still thinks they do all thier work in Austria?
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