your stance on "Light Guns" and Firearm VGs

[Justin]

And the kids get the idea that in the real world all they have to do is press "reset" or some such button, and the broken bones and mangled flesh suddenly goes away and everything gets nice and clean again, and let's get on with the fighting.

You're not saying anything that hasn't been said thousands of times before in any given time period about how people choose to entertain themselves.

Social hand-wringers were blathering on about the terrible effects of Penny Dreadfuls in the late 19th and early 20th century.

In the 1940's and 50's it was Fredric Wertham and his book The Seduction of the Innocent that lead to congressional hearings about the supposedly "well documented" ill effects of comic books upon children.

In the 1980's and early 90's it was heavy metal, industrial music, and "goths" that caused children to go on murderous rampages.

I'm sorry, but blaming entertainment for as the root cause of violence or murder is patently asinine.

 

[J Miller]

rhubarb said:

I reckon voting "complete waste of time" and being in the minority makes me an out-of-touch fuddy duddy.

Nope rhubarb, there's 10 others that agree with us. When I had my step kids I would not allow video games in the house. I don't like the violent nature of the games. Unfortunatly the kids had become addicted to them while in foster care. (Before their mother and I married.) They robbed the two of us blind of our silver coin collection and change bottle to go to the video arcades and burn their minds out.

Now both are in their 30's. Neither have a good job or a decent education, both are still heavily addicted to video games, and both are into building their own computers around the ability to run the high powered games.

Neither of them has any real grasp of reality.

Personally I believe that the electronic age will be the downfall of intellegent humanity.


Joe

 

[Daniel T]

Daniel T, just so we are clear, I am not against gaming or violent video games, I enjoy playing every shoot-um-up game that comes out. (Have you seen the new Sony game that tracks your movements as you duck for cover???? Really cool!). I just found this man's argument compelling enough to make me wonder if it should be sold to teens.

I understand, spoon. However, it looks to me that you're buying into a anti-style propaganda campaign. Just look at that leech's website and replace the word "game" with "gun", and you'll see an eerily familiar screed appear.

The Killology link you posted....well, let's just say that guy might be a bit biased. And arrogant....very, very arrogant. The guy claims that the scifi/fantasy book he co-authored "may be the first time any fiction book has ever talked about what combat is REALLY like!". He apparently thinks he's the only vet that ever wrote fiction. Regardless, he has an obvious agenda, and it fits hand-in-hand with the leech's goal of sucking as much money from the cash cow as he can.

I'm not saying that these games are appropriate for young children either, and the publisher, Take Two, rated the game as "M - Mature" for a reason. It was not marketed to children, unless you make the assumption that if it's a "game" it has to be for kids. The only people responsible for the kid's actions are he himself and his parents.

 

[MICHAEL T]

Their like TV a waste of time and good money. If I could still get around like I did. I wouldn't even have this thing in my house . Life to short to waste on a screen go do something that requires you using your brain and body not a toy gun and a screen

 

[Arc-Lite]

Justin....in all fairness, you read words NOT in Smokey's post...the words are "coarsens their attitudes toward violence".... not as you read "the root cause of violence and murder"

 

[Daniel T]

Now both are in their 30's. Neither have a good job or a decent education, both are still heavily addicted to video games, and both are into building their own computers around the ability to run the high powered games.

Neither of them has any real grasp of reality.

Yeah, it's because of the EVAL video games! It couldn't possibly be because they were from a broken family and spent time in foster care. Nope. No possible way could any early childhood family trauma cause problems later in life. Never.

 

[Justin]

Arc Lite- While Smokey may not have come right out and said that verbatim he did post the following:

And the kids get the idea that in the real world all they have to do is press "reset" or some such button, and the broken bones and mangled flesh suddenly goes away and everything gets nice and clean again, and let's get on with the fighting.

FWIW, broken bones and mangled flesh are a bit more severe than a coursened or desensitized attitude towards violence. One implies a heightened ability to tolerate simulated or real acts of violence, the other implies active participation. This strikes me as a fine but important distinction.

If "coursening" attitudes to violence don't actually cause more violence, then who cares?

 

[No_Brakes23]

I also really used to like Operation Wolf

Man, I forgot about that one, I lost plenty of quarters to that game.

And +1 on Justin's comments; he stated it far more eloquently than I did. Social hand-wringers indeed.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Daniel T,

I here ya and you may be correct. However, if this guy has scientific proof (i.e. the brain scans, etc[p.s. this is what I do for a living by the way, so his research hit a chord with me, so I may be biased]) showing the effects of the games on children vs. adults it would be interesting. It is no secret to any of us that children are drawn to visual things, as are many adults (i.e. pornography, anyone? i.e. can you post pics og your new toy(s)?).

Therefor there has to be some connection between the visual spectrum and the brain. I may be venturing off into tinfoil hat realm for some of you, but I know my four year old's ears shut off when the TV turns on, especially if it is one of his favorite shows. It is the same reason, as a vigilant parent, I limit how much TV time my children have and exactly WHAT they watch.

So to say something does not have merit because it may endanger our 2A right (i.e. put "gun" inplace of "video game") or because the researcher happens to be an arrogant SOB (most researcher types I know are!) is specious.

AS to the "good ole days" argument, just because something is Old does not make it better, but neither does something being New make it better...Social Handwringing comments aside, it is now popular for girls to dress, well, like sluts. I think this is a sad commentary on our society and will not allow my 16 yo daughter to dress in such a manner (in fact she thinks it "gross" in her words). So I guess that makes me Handwringer...o.k. ut at least you can't see my daughters [edited for appropriateness] in public!

 

[Arc-Lite]

Justin...I will let Smokies exact words speak for themself. If there is need to clarify, I am sure he will gladly.

 

[Justin]

Arc-Lite- Perhaps he will.

thereisnospoon-

I've read Grossman's book, "On Killing" and came away thouroughly unimpressed. Anyone with even a mediocre amount of either video game or shooting knowledge can pretty much poke all sorts of holes in his assertions.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Okay.

I haven't read it and don't intend to, I was merely putting the information that Jack Thompson was relaying on the show about video games for Daniel T. I have not verified the information, nor do I intend to. I simply said if I was on the Jury, the information he presented, IF he could back it up scientifically would give me pause and make me think.

Again, I am not anti-video game for y'all, but as for me and my house...we treat it like a distant cousin that needs money.

 

[middy]

In the 1980's and early 90's it was heavy metal, industrial music, and "goths" that caused children to go on murderous rampages.

You forgot about Dungeons & Dragons. Apparently that game was supposed to turn us into a bunch of Satan-worshipping axe-murderers. LOL.

BBL, I've got to go rinse the goat blood off my slave-maidens.

 

[bigun15]

The more I read this thread, the more I want to go to the arcade.

 

[Control Group]

If video games affected kids, my generation would be eating pills, chasing cherries, and listening to repetitive electronic music.

 

[JMPeters]

yes that t-shirt was funny. what an awesome discussion. i was not expecting such an intelligent debate!

 

[torpid]

Video games shmideo games- The ultimate audio/visual "first person shooter" experience was...

...the 18 year old young men of WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, etc. who came home after killing men for real, and that's why the streets have run red with blood daily for over a century as these trained and experienced killers with 2nd Amendment guaranteed access to firearms have unleashed their pre-video game bloodlust on a trembling nation!!!

Pleeeease.



.

 

[torpid]

To add to psyopspec's "...what do you reckon was in Hitler's Playstation or Saddam's Gameboy?" sentiment-

Was Charles Whitman considered a "camper" without an appropriate FPS outlet?

 

[CleverName]

My local pizza place had Sport Shooting USA. Too bad nobody bothered to properly zero the lightguns, so they hit about 2" low and 1" left of POA of the red dot on the screen. Makes hitting stuff hard when you constantly have to hold over something that should be point-blank. I just ended up point shooting.

Anyways, I've played video games since I was about... I have no idea, maybe 5 or 6? I'm at a good college, and typing this post on a hand-built computer designed to run the best games out at the time I built it well. I played GTA III, GTA VC and GTA SA, all but the last before I was the appropriate age. But like any semi-intelligent person, I could differentiate between the cartoonish over-the-top-violence in GTA and reality. In fact, one of the reasons I don't play Americas Army much is that the violence is a little too real and strikes a little too close for home.

 

[PaladinVC]

With a little effort, I'm sure you could argue that frequenting internet discussion forums where some members casually post about "mozambiquing goblins" and refer to real, live human beings as "bad guys" would coarsen one's view of violence against people. Calling a gunfight a "social situation" is a little spooky, out of context.

To be fair, though, hours of duck hunt instilled in me a deep, burning desire to shoot giggling hound dogs. Anyone else? Lousy dog. I'll teach you to laugh at me! P-Kang P-Kang P-Kang P-Kang P-Kang P-Kang!! And seriously, if I'm going duck hunting with a handgun, I'll bring more than a three-shooter.

 

[bigun15]

...the 18 year old young men of WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, etc. who came home after killing men for real

Only thing is that people UNDER 18 want to use the video games. Also the fact that when you shoot at other people in war, they shoot back with real bullets.

 

[Arc-Lite]

bigun 15...good point...the reality of war, kind of makes games "funny"

 

[JMPeters]

Yeah I find games like GTA, Mario Golf, Mortal Kombat, and Viewtiful Joe nice ways to unwind after a long arduous day. Screw beer give me a game any old day. I'll have fun and not get a hangover. SCORE!