I was detained at school today (Aug 29 2007)

[DKSuddeth]

2. The officers who were on the scene were directly ordered to act as they did, they respected my rights up until the chief ordered them to violate them. Since the chief doesn’t appear in the police report, and no official mention is made of the roll he played in the deception there is a very good chance that any complaint would wind up being shunted onto the responding officers who actually are very nice guys who (I believe) were sincere in their desire to respect my 4th amendment rights.

They could have violated my rights at any time during the encounter, but did not do so until forced by the chief. They did not harass me in any way after the incident and I don’t feel that putting a note in their permanent record is the best way to make gun ownership accepted as a hobby/right that is socially acceptable at the school.

I hope I'm making sense with this... I didn't want to create an US v Them situation on campus which would create hardships for the gunnies who I was leaving behind when I graduated.

If there was a way to go after the chief directly, I wouldn't be opposed to it. but I don't want it to be scapegoated onto underlings.

Ajax, while i can certainly appreciate your position on the issue, I believe that had you seriously pursued a civil rights violation lawsuit, these honorable officers would have sacrificed the chief who gave them an unlawful order, opening him up for action. must my opinion though.

 

[FCFC]

So... that’s where its at

So....nothing changes. Nothing gets fixed. No accountability... no institutional learning.

OK, that's a wrap!

 

[SomeKid]

I can understand why you didn't sue. Would have cost you what you didn't have. Fine.

I just don't see why you were unwilling to at least file a formal written complaint against the cops who actively violated your rights. "Nice guys"? They violated your rights. I don't care if you smile when you do it, if you do it, you did it. Might not have done much, might have only hurt their career a little bit, but the next time they consider violating someones rights, it might cause them to pause.

 

[fatelk]

Unless you can get a 900lbs gorilla in your corner it is almost impossible to take a LEO or state agency to court and win.

This is absolutely true. They have more time and money than you ever will. I would never recommend it unless you have serious help.

We really do have a pretty good justice system in this country, but any system is only as good as the people who run it. Money carries more weight than truth when it comes to getting justice.

 

[doc2rn]

I would lawyer up and upon receiving confirmation that an illegal search without a warrant took place get a free diploma with the award. You have a chance here to end the anti's crap at your college. When are the anti's gonna learn that only the criminals dont follow the laws. Until they have to face us in court this type of abuse will not change.

 

[redraidermgr]

I think you made the right decision. A lot of hassle for almost no gain. I wish it was plausible to take it to them and let them know that rights are protected for a reason but I think that you are focused on the right priorities at the moment. Good luck in school and good luck on getting into Columbia.

 

[Guns and more]

As for the accuser, you are legally entitled to know who is accusing you of such a crime (it's called facing your accuser).

That's if you are tried for a crime.

 

[Derek Zeanah]

Lay off the kid. This is a decision that's his alone to make, and choosing to litigate in this situation means he'll be costing himself a few tens of thousands of dollars (that a student likely can't afford), will create a decade's worth of stress, won't result in any compensation, might torpedo his academic career, and likely won't even affect the person who made the call to violate his rights.

He, and he alone, can say whether it's worth the price. It's surprisingly easy to say what someone else should do and stand high on your own values when you don't need to pay the price.

Me? I was willing to go to the mat when the Army decided it needed a full DNA sample from me. I knew a denial would result in an immediate dishonorable discharge, but I had assurance from my folks that they'd help pay for the legal action later. Turns out I didn't need to make that choice as I found another way around it, but could I have done the same if I knew I'd be bankrolling it myself on a job I could land with a dishonorable discharge on my record?

Can't say.

I respect the guy's decision. I think I might have chosen differently, but then again I wasn't there, and I left LA back in the early 1990's and can't really tell what it's like there now.

 

[jaholder1971]

So....nothing changes. Nothing gets fixed. No accountability... no institutional learning.

I would lawyer up and upon receiving confirmation that an illegal search without a warrant took place get a free diploma with the award. You have a chance here to end the anti's crap at your college. When are the anti's gonna learn that only the criminals dont follow the laws. Until they have to face us in court this type of abuse will not change.

C'Mon, people!

He's a college kid trying to get through 4 years of P.C. University Bovine Scatology without ruining his reputation, which would be incredibly easy at this point.

Legal action takes Purina Lawyer Chow (money) and when I was in college most students barely had enough to eat on themselves. He cut his losses and filed the whole incident under "Lessons Learned".

 

[zxcvbob]

Is there any way to persue this as a *criminal* matter instead of civil? The state has unlimited resources to defend against a civil case, but in a criminal complaint the state is working for you instead of against you.

Probably just wishful thinking...

 

[psyopspec]

Ajax, thank you for the update. You had a tough call, and in the end your decision was well thought. I won't say how I'd have gone, mostly because I honestly don't know. However, it should be easy for anyone to see that you did what you had to do, and you had sufficient reason. Better luck in NY.

 

[gunNoob]

Did the officer ask "Are you AJAX22 from the calguns forum?"

lol. sucks that the movie "Minority Report" might come true.

 

[doc2rn]

I believe you have a valid case against Mia also for defamation of character, aside from the one against the officers for search with out a warrant.

 

[jaholder1971]

Do you want to bankroll these legal actions, Doc? I doubt he has the cash to do so if he's in college.

 

[The Tourist]

The forum is definitely correct. This matter is your life, and your money. Only you can make the cost/risk decision on the follow-up procedure.

Personally, I would have jointly and severely sued everyone who was within spitting distance of the matter--including the girl who contacted authorities.

Remember, you don't pay court costs if you win, and you can make fees from your attorney part of the settlement.

I don't think they had probably cause.

Failing that, there is no case.

The computer was involved (to some extent, even if the girl filed an incorrect report). Would Melvin Purvis and the Keystone Kops come to see you if this same girl saw a copy of "Guns n' Ammo" in your pack-back?

Well, in this day and age of political correctness, she might. But would any officer come to detain you for a magazine? I mean any cop who wants a career and sees his actions on the front of tomorrow's newspaper.

Now granted, I don't mind being arrested. An "arrest" means nothing but a ride in a Crown Victoria. (It's a nice ride, the seats are wide and comfortable, lots of legroom.) It's the final ruling of the court that has meaning. And I cannot imagine an DA who wants a career to take this to the mat.

The real meaning of this event is that now these cops think they have a stronger hand in a questionable procedure. And the next time it could be me.

 

[XDKingslayer]

You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em.

 

[The Tourist]

You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em.

Agreed, but sloppy police work should never be feared.

There is something called "The White Coat Syndrome." College studies have found that people will administer dangerous amounts of electric shock to test subjects simply because they were ordered to do so by "a guy in a lab coat."

(BTW, there was no electricity. The guy caving in to authority was really the test subject.)

If you feel you have done no wrong, stick out your hands for the bracelets. It's no big deal.

 

[mgkdrgn]

"The interesting part of the trip was the response to my request for a copy of the warrant, at first they just stated that telephonic warrants do not have face sheets, and after talking amongst themselves for a minuite or so in back, they informed me that when they called in for the warrant "that service was not available to us at the time" but they assured me that it would all be explained in the narrative of the police report."

Which is "cop-o-babble" for "We conducted a search, that you objected to, with out a proper warrant. In the interest of expediency, we screwed up, and now we are going to cover up our screw up."

 

[The Tourist]

Before anyone in this country should be awarded a high school diploma, they should be required to take a course on The Constitutiuon and The Bill of Rights, and then promptly arrested.

I believe "rights" will suddenly become important.

 

[kludge]

2. The officers who were on the scene were directly ordered to act as they did, they respected my rights up until the chief ordered them to violate them. Since the chief doesn’t appear in the police report, and no official mention is made of the roll he played in the deception there is a very good chance that any complaint would wind up being shunted onto the responding officers who actually are very nice guys who (I believe) were sincere in their desire to respect my 4th amendment rights.

They could have violated my rights at any time during the encounter, but did not do so until forced by the chief. They did not harass me in any way after the incident and I don’t feel that putting a note in their permanent record is the best way to make gun ownership accepted as a hobby/right that is socially acceptable at the school.

I hope I'm making sense with this... I didn't want to create an US v Them situation on campus which would create hardships for the gunnies who I was leaving behind when I graduated.

If there was a way to go after the chief directly, I wouldn't be opposed to it. but I don't want it to be scapegoated onto underlings.

Ajax, while i can certainly appreciate your position on the issue, I believe that had you seriously pursued a civil rights violation lawsuit, these honorable officers would have sacrificed the chief who gave them an unlawful order, opening him up for action. must my opinion though.

Yup, and Marines who obey illegal orders are convicted of murder. We've all got to live by priciples.

This is why there are laws against doing thing under the color of law.

The cop who thinks he will be punished for violating you constitutional right won't violate them. If the Chief gives him an order, and he knows he won't be punished, and he then violates your rights is no better than the Chief.

IMHO.

 

[The Tourist]

The issue here is that the OP is innocent and the cops over reacted, possibly in a criminal fashion no matter who was the top-kick who authorized the action.

This is why we have judges and court hearings. You do not lose your rights simply because your opponent in court is a LEO.

Now, I've gotten some static about opposing ninjas and my constant questioning of authority--which translate only to making that authority adhere to the law. That doesn't change here simply because that individual is a real cop. He still has to play by the same rules.

Worst case. He hooks you up. He escorts you from the school building. You get booked. You await your attorney or your wife with bail money. You might have to wait a longer period and get dinner. It's usually something like a bad hotdog, old potato salad and piece of white bread, no butter. Heck, you could stand to lose a few pounds, anyway.

You get arraigned, you "stand mute," and wait for some behind the scenes shenanigans. At some point this authority realized this was all a tragic misunderatanding.

Your response is, "Wonderful, we'll discuss that at the civil hearing."

Is that really so bad?

 

[ServiceSoon]

Thank you for sharing your story.

 

[fiVe]

This is a very interesting thread. Much can be learned here.

 

[doc2rn]

I would gladly contribute to any monitary fund that is needed to correct an injustice.
I have fought and blead for our rights, people who sit idly by are equal to sheeple in my opinion.

 

[dalepres]

What exactly is a phone warrant? How is that legal? I've never heard of such a thing.