Public range safety concern

I always have a loaded pistol on me and will take the bolt down-range.

Sounds like you have a legitimate concern. Seems that a flag, signage(like a drop down) or flashing light would be the simplest and easiest solution. None of them are expensive or would take a lot of work to accomplish.

The 600 (now 1,000) yard range I used to belong to had range flags at every firing line, from 200 to 600 yards.

They had target frames like Camp Perry, so I always shot with another person. One of us was always in the pits marking targets. When we switched, the one in the pits drove back to the firing line first.

I've never had a problem with somebody UNKNOWINGLY shooting while I was down range.

When I was stationed at Ft. Knox, a friend and I used to go to the public range.

One Saturday we were on the range when a couple of civilian townies showed up. We called a ceasefire to head downrange and change targets.

While we were changing targets we were startled to hear the "crack, thump" of rounds passing us.

We immediately began yelling for a cease fire and ran back to the firing line.

We rounded on the two townies and asked them why they were touching guns, much less shooting when they KNEW we were downrange.

They replied, "We wasn't shootin' atcha; we was shootin' pastya!", to which we replied, "Do it again and we'll shoot THROUGH you."

We then locked up superfluous guns and headed for the range control shack. We told the range officer what was going on, but by the time we got back to the firing line, Larry and Daryl were gone.

From that time on, I made sure I was the first one on, and the first one off the range.

Until you've been there, don't judge.

The old (only) range in my old town was built on an old ranch. So, there's a huge stock tank with about 20-25' of tank berm along one side. The rifle line with stands an smaller bersm is perpendicular to the tank going out 100, 200, & 300 yards. 300 yard berm is about 5' lower than the firing line, 200 is about 10,and the hundred is right at 20' down.
Friring line continues across and had a berm at 50 yards, and another at 25 yards. About 8 positions on the firing line at the 100/200/300; then about 6 for the 50, and 8 along the 25. Rifle & pistol shooters all along one line. Wehn it was crowded, it was very crowded.

So, one day I'm over my new-to-me M1A digging how much it was like the M-14 I already knew so well. Was a crowded day, so I'm right at the edge of the 50 yard & 100 yard line, and I'm shooting at the 200 as some goober has stapled targets over two sets of stands (he's missing all of them despite having a 155x scope on his 7mag). It's an overcast day, kind of twilight dark, and just that right amount of shill in the air. So, it's crowded, every position has either one or two people on it. It's long pulls between cease fires, if for how long it takes for 40-50 shooters to call a pause.

Goober drives up, jumps out of his ride, and saunters out to the end of the 50 yard line. He's wearing a white t-shirt and dark trousers.

How I learn of this is, out of the corner of my left eye, an IPSC silhouette appears. I'm only a couple of weeks removed from having been on a popup rifle course. Tachypsychia kicks in as the front sight moves over to cover the popup about which time brain goes "Popups are Black, and do not run in retreat mode." Which is when goober becomes a person. Whereupon rifle muzzle goes to vertical and I jump up and start yelling "Cease Fire" (Side note: If you ever want the full attention of a public range, hold a rifle in your right hand while giving the CF hand signal with your left while yelled CF as lous as adrenaline allows.)

Goober was a little bit startled when it suddenly got quiet and notices about 40 people all pointing an yelling at him.

He fires off the six rounds that were in his just bought at the pawn shop revolver. The Range operator has driven down from the trailer on the hill,as he wants his six bucks for range fees. He's a little concerned because I'm packing up my stuff as I'm loading up unfired ammo--which is something he's never seem me do. Goober is confused, he magically thought everyone's bullet would just stop around him, even said "Yuh weren't gonna shuute me was'ya?" Goober is real irate about having to pay $6 just like the rest of us, what with having been yelled at and all. Being told he was unwelcome to return was confusing him, too.

I shoot at a private range and very often I'm the only one there. We don't use a range officer, just everyone cooperating. We have a sign out in front of the benches on the rifle range. I can't recall the exact wording, but when turned one way it means the range is clear. When going down to check targets you simply turn it around where there is a message indicating that someone is on the range.

I would think the most effective thing would be a cord with pennants hanging down that is strung at eye level right in front of the shooting positions. Give it slack and it lays on the ground; pull a lever and the slack comes out and it hangs in front of where any shooters would be looking down range. It would be impossible to not see.

Bucks county had a rifle range on their public land. They have one on just about every hunting and fishing land.
A friend of mine was there one day and every one went down range to change targets. Two young guys stayed
at the benches. They had a 9MM pistol. Next thing the two guys were playing with the pistol and it went off. The
bullet went through one guys leg and then bounced off of the ground and hit another in the back side. The two
guys jumped into their car and dug out of there. There were so many accidents and close calls there that they
finally closed the range.

Zeke

No amount of flags, lights, bells and whistles is going to stop stupidity and carelessness. I too have seen some pretty stupid things at small "club" type ranges where anyone can shoot, range fees are done under the honor system and the range is generally unsupervised. Many of these small ranges have seen their traffic increase greatly from a few old timers there to shoot trap every Tuesday night to every local yocal with a new Glock, shooting for the first time. This is why one needs to look out for themselves and expect worst case scenarios like gun thieves and folks shooting "past" you, or the first timer thinking that dropping the mag unloads the gun.

All the people at the line are yelling at him, I pull my pistol cock it and start taking up the slack when he figures it out and runs and jumps in his car and peels out of the parking area. Another second or so and he too would have incoming fire. My buddy asked if I would have shot the guy, I said hell yes I thought he was shooting at me.

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But what if "all the people" besides your buddy and you, then thought you were the guy shooting at them? Seems like you would have been seriously outgunned especially on a rifle range.

I don't shoot at public ranges anymore and even at "club" ranges only matches. Maybe find one that had RO's on the range that won't let people stand at a bench or handle firearms at all when people are down range?

If you have no other choice you can still find these.

Wow rugerman, I am glad I don't shoot at a range near Auburn, Alabama. Let me know if you move to Texas. I try to avoid people with that attitude when out in public.


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rugerman said:

Several years ago a buddy and I were sighting in our hunting rifles at a public range. I went down to put up a couple of targets, I took my Ruger superblackhawk 44 with me. While I was down range some jackass walks up to the firing line and starts shooting at something . All the people at the line are yelling at him, I pull my pistol cock it and start taking up the slack when he figures it out and runs and jumps in his car and peels out of the parking area. Another second or so and he too would have incoming fire. My buddy asked if I would have shot the guy, I said hell yes I thought he was shooting at me. I don't go to a range alone, ever!

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Maybe we shouldn't be that cavalier when talking about killing another man. Beside the legal and moral ramifications of actually pulling the trigger, this type of talk plays into the anti's negative portrayal of us.

TomJ said:

Maybe we shouldn't be that cavalier when talking about killing another man. Beside the legal and moral ramifications of actually pulling the trigger, this type of talk plays into the anti's negative portrayal of us.

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It's incredible that it would need to be said, it is incredible that another poster backed him up, and it is incredible that someone could remain a member here after such an insane admission/suggestion.

WestKentucky said:

It's also incredible that someone is so cavalier with his condemnation of a fellow enthusiast. I'm not starting a peeing for distance match here, and I would advise others not to jump on the bandwagon of judging others actions unless it is specifically asked for. I think we all agree that the situation described flat out sucks and none of us want to be put in it. Likewise we don't want to be put into the shoes of a man who shoots another accidentally or incidentally to another persons mistake.

I'm still looking for options to improve the range, and I will likely do it on my dime and on my time if the club doesn't jump at the ecommendations. So far I'm thinking that a fence should be used to funnel folks to a gate/opening and have flags or a rotating sign at that point. Knowing the chuckleheads that I'm nervous about, I bet they would hang targets on the fence and signs and blast away.

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If someone wanted to discuss how to build an illegal machinegun on THR, that would not be tolerated. I don't see why other suggestions of clearly illegal, violent behavior would be tolerated as if we were discussing cleaning rods.

Did you read my suggestion for pennants that block the firing sight line? It would be an easy and cheap project while being very effective.

WestKentucky said:

It's also incredible that someone is so cavalier with his condemnation of a fellow enthusiast. I'm not starting a peeing for distance match here, and I would advise others not to jump on the bandwagon of judging others actions unless it is specifically asked for. I think we all agree that the situation described flat out sucks and none of us want to be put in it. Likewise we don't want to be put into the shoes of a man who shoots another accidentally or incidentally to another persons mistake.

I'm still looking for options to improve the range, and I will likely do it on my dime and on my time if the club doesn't jump at the ecommendations. So far I'm thinking that a fence should be used to funnel folks to a gate/opening and have flags or a rotating sign at that point. Knowing the chuckleheads that I'm nervous about, I bet they would hang targets on the fence and signs and blast away.

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For liability reasons alone, any range needs to be both properly fenced and prominently marked with warning signs.

That won't stop trespassers or vandals from entering the property (the range to which I belonged had problems with kids on dirt bikes.), but it'll avoid the "attractive nuisance" factor.

WestKentucky said:

I like the idea, but I don't see it as a durable solution.

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Those outdoor pennant lines used on car lots and such last for years, and you could replace them as they wear out from a supply stock.

Our local DNR range is staffed by ROs and uses the ropes w/streamers in front of the firing line much like the pennants suggested. It's a good plan, but I don't know if it would work on a non-supervised range. One can hope but I just don't trust untrained and unrestrained shooters.

WestKentucky,
It sounds like you have two issues to address. The first is how to let other members know someone is downrange. That's simple enough, and other posters have given you some good suggestions. At our club we simply put orange cones out. The second is getting members at the range to pay attention to those signs and not shoot when the sign tells them someone is downrange. Other than using range officers, I'm not sure how to so that. They're either going to see that someone is downrange and not shoot or they'll ignore the notice and shoot anyway. If the later is the case, if another range is available in your area I'd go there.

WestKentucky

Knowing the chuckleheads that I'm nervous about, I bet they would hang targets on the fence and signs and blast away.

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Those are my thoughts exactly; putting up warning signs, fencing, cones, flags, and pennants only to find some morons have shot them all to pieces, because: "nobody's going to tell them what they can or can't do on a public range".

RX-79G said:

What crazy behavior. Instead of running for cover, you decided to commit murder instead?

Did you really think a jury wouldn't think it more likely that it was a mistake at a shooting range than an intentional attack? It doesn't sound like your buddy would have backed you up, either.


It is truly unbelievable the things people brag about. Your actions are just another reason to avoid public ranges.

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It isn't murder. A reasonable person would fear for his life having a terrorist or criminal brazenly ignoring others yelling shooting in his direction. Jeeze, You don't wait around to see if he mistaken or intentionally shooting at you!

You need to seriously consider if you have the mindset that you could defend yourself or a family member.

I think I must have visited every shooting range described on this thread. Buck 460 X described our club so close he must be a member.

medic15al said:

It isn't murder. A reasonable person would fear for his life having a terrorist or criminal brazenly ignoring others yelling shooting in his direction. Jeeze, You don't wait around to see if he mistaken or intentionally shooting at you!

You need to seriously consider if you have the mindset that you could defend yourself or a family member.

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Someone needs to seriously consider whether you should remain a member on THR.

Guess what, shooting ranges have a certain danger built into them. You weren't being "attacked". You knew it, your buddy knew it and the jury would know it.

Instead, you were deciding to use lethal force to deal with a communications problem in a dangerous activity you voluntarily took part in. You can no more shoot at some idiot at a gun range than you can shoot the crane operator on a construction site.

You are a dangerous person advocating an incredibly bad idea. I can only hope you go to jail for attempted murder rather than the real thing, and that no one is foolish enough to take any advice from you.