Rebirth of the 32 ACP?

Wait, I thought the rebirth of the 32 ACP started when the 32 Seecamp came out in (pause for Googling) 1985? It got additional boosts when the Seecamp patents expired and a bunch of Seecamp copies came out and when the Kel-Tec 32 came out. Especially after some bugs in the Kel-Tec got fixed. Is it being reborn again?

Isn't the evolution of pistols the size of the Kel-Tec 32 into 380s a bad thing for the rebirth of 32, or am I just ignorant?

About the time I turned 21, there was a import flood of European police surplus .32’s at bargain prices. Having always wanted a Walther PPK, I picked up a French Manurhin PP in .32 for $175…the gun show was full of them back then.
That PP became my first carry pistol. I bought a Bianchi #3 “Pistol Pocket” IWB holster, and carried it quite a bit.
It was 100% reliable with anything I loaded it with, and proved very accurate, even out to 25yds.
I stupidly traded it away… and of all the firearms I regret having traded away, that PP tops the list.

The gel tests are interesting, how about the .32 on actual denin, flesh, and bone.

I'm a fan of carrying a 32 in my pocket during the summer. Mine is loaded with 9 rounds of Fiocchi 73gr FMJ. Loaded weight of gun, ammo and holster is less than 10oz.

Beretta 81 is my fun gun to carry. Very concealable and the weight is not as bad as some.

This was just another surplus pistol that was priced right at the time. Reloading for it is a snap[.

CoalTrain49 said:

I guess I would have to ask what can 32 ACP do that 380 ACP can't? Are they more concealable? Is there more magazine capacity? Is there a larger selection of SD bullets that meet FBI standard 12" penetration? I'm not seeing the 32 ACP as having any advantages here. 380 ACP is about as small as I wish to go for SD. I have a 32 revolver so I'm not a total caliber snob.

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At least with the Kel-Tec pistols, the 32 ACP P32 is much easier to shoot than the same size 380 ACP P3AT.

The same could be said for the Walther PPK series of pistols and the Beretta Model 81/84 series of pistols. But, in these cases, the pistols are larger and heavier and 380 ACP is easier to control than the diminutive Kel-Tec pistols.

There is always a trade off of some type.

While I've owned, and still own, handguns in .32 ACP (and I actually have enjoyed them, enjoyed shooting them) .. I do not consider it a viable caliber for anything other than last-ditch, deep concealment back-up to a back-up gun (the "get offa me" or "Jesus gun").

The internet makes it so easy to access information to support confirmation bias.

CDW4ME said:

I begrudgingly carried a pocket 380 (LCP/P3AT) when I was limited by work clothes.
To me 380 was marginal, not a caliber I'd carry by choice.
Given that I thought 380 marginal, I can't contemplate thinking, "If I have to defend my life today, I'd prefer a 32 acp in hand"

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I don't think anyone given the choice between the two would want to choose the .32 over the .380, but we're talking in LCP sized pistols here. The issue is with the .380 you get hit with a lot of snap and recoil and you still get stuck with low velocity and question hollow point expansion. With .32 you have less recoil and with the right ammo an equally effective amount of penetration and some expansion.

I'll take the reduced recoil over the bigger bullet in a tiny gun. It lets me practice more as with .380 in the LCP I have to stop after 20 rds because I start to shake like Michael J. Fox. The end result of the .32 is I shoot better.

I don’t have a lot of them but this one is my most treasured. My Grandfather’s carry gun.

Just because Lucky Gunner made one video doesn't mean the .32 is seeing a rebirth. The industry itself has to see that for itself and so far they haven't because few are making a .32 ACP pistol and outside of Lehigh the ammo makers aren't bothering to bring out improved defensive ammunition. They will for .380 because those are popular and they're popular because companies like Ruger, S&W, etc. make very small pistols in .380 and people bought them because they were small and then they sold them because they realized .380's in such small pistols sucked to shoot.

I think the .32 caliber for conceal carry in small, light handguns is the best caliber, but the common consensus among almost everyone in the gun trade is it's a liability, it's no good, it's too small, it's a buck a round, etc. You name it, that's what the people behind the counters think and they pass that to anyone who is not informed and new to guns and that message gets repeated to their friends and it continues to spread and the .32 gets it from both sides because even knowledgeable gun people who frequent these forums will say the same things, but focus on technical and ballistic details, ammo availability, LEO recommendations for officers when they're off duty, etc.

At least for revolvers the .32 now has .327, which is no slouch, and that has started to bring .32 H&R Magnum back into the fold. The .32 ACP doesn't have that, but IMO the bottom line with .32 is if someone can shoot it good and better than they can .38 or .380 or 9mm, then why is something that's .32 so maligned?

You know, in the midst of the worst ammunition crisis we've ever seen you would think people would get behind a caliber that is superior to .22 or .25 for self defense that is also very easy for someone with little to no skill to become effective due to a faster learning curve and can retain that skill without having to shoot 50 or 100 rounds at a time, yet they still revert back to the "bigger is better" argument or the absolute necessity of always using the best thing to accomplish a thing when good enough is good enough.

jmorris said:

I don’t have a lot of them but this one is my most treasured. My Grandfather’s carry gun.

View attachment 1016443

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Yeah, if I had one of those, I might be onboard with the rebirth of .32 thing, just because the old Colt 1903 is a freakin' beautifully crafted firearm and I'd be seeking some confirmation bias for sure. I love the handguns Colt made in the first 50 years of the 20th century. Not sayin' that cool factor trumps ballistic effectiveness, but... you know... James Bond, etc.

I regret not picking up a P32 when they were under $200 a few years back. I'm very happy with my LCP when I can't carry a larger gun, but I'd like the option for having something just a tad smaller when even my LCP bulges in my pocket.

I really wish we had more data about the performance of the Lehigh projectiles in actual, real-world use.

I’d also love to see a gel comparison between the Lehigh bullets in .32 or .380 vs the self-defense “gold standard,” a 9x19 with a quality hollowpoint.

TTv2 said:

Just because Lucky Gunner made one video doesn't mean the .32 is seeing a rebirth...

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Maybe not, BUT... couple that with the fact that I've started finding more .32 cases when brass hunting at my range? If those two 'data points' don't convince you, I don't know what will! lol

If you go back and look at the gel tests shown in post #7, the greatest penetration is from FMJ bullets and hollow point bullets that did NOT expand when entering the gel. I believe this test says more about the inability of certain OTS (off the shelf) ammo to do the job we expect of them.

IMO, it does not show/prove that the .32 acp is a man stopper.

Patocazador said:

If you go back and look at the gel tests shown in post #7, the greatest penetration is from FMJ bullets and hollow point bullets that did NOT expand when entering the gel. I believe this test says more about the inability of certain OTS (off the shelf) ammo to do the job we expect of them.

IMO, it does not show/prove that the .32 acp is a man stopper.

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I like the penetration of the FMJ. And ballistic gel is not the same as going through sternum after having passed through a jacket. The .32 has to hit something vital to stop someone if they are determined to fight. I am also wary of Plus P loads in mouse guns.

CoalTrain49 said:

I guess I would have to ask what can 32 ACP do that 380 ACP can't? Are they more concealable? Is there more magazine capacity? Is there a larger selection of SD bullets that meet FBI standard 12" penetration? I'm not seeing the 32 ACP as having any advantages here. 380 ACP is about as small as I wish to go for SD. I have a 32 revolver so I'm not a total caliber snob.

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CoalTrain49 said:

I guess I would have to ask what can 32 ACP do that 380 ACP can't? Are they more concealable? Is there more magazine capacity? Is there a larger selection of SD bullets that meet FBI standard 12" penetration? I'm not seeing the 32 ACP as having any advantages here. 380 ACP is about as small as I wish to go for SD. I have a 32 revolver so I'm not a total caliber snob.

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The .32 attains sectional densities to which the common .380 simply cannot aspire.

In addition, the .32 offers the shooter a much greater sense of exclusivity.

If you feel that sectional density and exclusivity are the two things you just can’t compromise on, you step over to .32.

Then on weekends, you get all that out of your system with a Pair of Forty-Four Specials.

To me there is absolutely no question that a hot 9mm or hollowpoint 45 is a very much more reliable manstopper than a 32. But if one decides, as a personal choice, that the 9 or 45 is “too much gun,” either because of recoil, size, or weight, it’s very conceivable that that a 32 might fit the bill for a given individual. That’s why I wish there were more boutique ammo options to get the most from this cartridge, and more data on the options that do exist. There are undeniable handling advantages to the 32, and potential capacity advantages too, with modern engineering.

I love shooting my 32s, and I’ve even called it my favorite cartridge, but I’ll not be grabbing it in preference to a bigger caliber for bump in the night duty, given the current state of 32 defensive ammo. I don’t know if it’s ever possible to take it up to 380 levels, but more development to assess that potential would be nice.

Even with his armored car with cannon, MG's, M1 Garand, etc...my Dad carried a 32 acp in his pocket the whole time he was in Europe, fighting WWII.
Should be good enough for Ohio in 2021.

Gun makers- Ammo makers aren’t making 32acp in sufficient numbers to justify tooling up and making a new pistol let alone development costs.

Ammo makers- Gun makers have dropped 32acp from their lines so there’s no reason to produce more ammo since there are so few guns still in use.

People who like 32acp-

People who think 9mm, 380, 38spl are the established minimum-

people who reload-

New gun owners coming into the argument-

i have an old CZ-70, that I like. It is .32ACP and I'm always hemming and hawing if I should get a newer sub compact in 9mm. The dimensions are basically the same, weight is the same when loaded ... so, what am I gaining? Sure, the newer pistols of the same size are 9mm vs. 32ACP, few more rounds with the fancy magazine designs, but I can't shoot them as well, and follow up shots are way slower. I end up back to, well - shots that miss, or don't get down range in time are of no value - so, I'm not really sure what I would be gaining, other than following a trend that makes little/no sense to me, since you have to actually be able to hit targets and quickly, and follow up ...so, maybe others can make it work, but I haven't been able to figure it out.

I'm not timing myself, but it feels 2 or 3 times slower when I use some of my friends moderns sub compacts to make follow up shots, but - everyone really seems to like shooting the old CZ and take to it rather quickly. I've looked at the ballistics of the Fiocci ball ammo I carry, and for me - since I fully expect never to use it - and in the summer downgrade to an NAA mini revolver with .22 Mag, I'm good with it.

Some manufacturer will figure out a slightly hotter .32ACP like they had for the Frommer Stoppe - or whatever it was called, in a modern firearm with a 3.5-4ish inch barrel, with one of the fancy half double stack magazines to get more rounds in there, would be competetive in a sub compact size, like a Walther PP or PPK size little handgun. They've had the velocity up around 1,200 fps before, and the nrg curve goes up dramatically, and hollow points certainly will expand at that velocity. Just some musings, don't think it will ever happen. Maybe someone already makes one and I just don't know it.

7.62 Nagant = the Russians wanted a 30 cal revolver round sufficient to kill a horse.

7.62x25 Tokarev/7.63 Mauser = a hot .30 semi auto round for the same general mission parameters.

7.65 Browning/.32acp = Browning’s answer to the Mauser round. Deliberately kept light so the pistols could be blowbacks.

I’m not sure the old 32 itself could or should ever get up to 1200… but a new round with very similar form factor chambered in a double stack locked breech gun holding 15 rounds, at 1000-1100fps with some decent hollowpoint expansion, would be a very sweet little number.

The .32 NAA is neat. But held back by its fat 380 form factor and rather dated platform (a tiny metal backup gun.)

Mosin77 said:

7.65 Browning/.32acp = Browning’s answer to the Mauser round. Deliberately kept light so the pistols could be blowbacks.

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I don't think 7.65mm Browning was in any way Browning's answer to the Mauser round. It was an original creation for an original design which was not meant for the same purpose as the Mauser Broomhandle. It was substantially better than 32 S&W, and arguably better than 32 S&W Long. It was nowhere near 7.65mm Mauser. It was intended to go into a small but useful defensive pistol, comparable to an S&W 32 Hand Ejector or a Colt 32 Pocket Positive. It was not intended to be a military round, even if a few armies (Belgium, Hungary, and ?) did adopt it as their primary round.

Kleanbore said:

The temporary cavity impresses not at all.

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Remember when all gunwriters shot rounds into wet Durham's Water Putty? Every single round would 'demonstrate" outstanding "cavities" for photos in the gun magazines.

The .32acp may be seeing more attention right now because everything else was bought up in the gun cases. Which then created additional friction for not having that much ammo available during the drought.

Is it a Renaissance or an Anomaly? Only time will tell.