Your carry gun is NOT for Show & Tell

The time and place for Open Carry could be a barbecue over at your buddies. But it doesn't mean you show up loaded. Well, the gun loaded.

There is a very small subset of situations where a human hand wasn't in direct contact with a firearm and it discharged. They are so rare that they get a lot of attention which blows the actual chance of it happening far out of proportion. The internet does that.

How many times did a firearm being holstered or unholstered go off vs one that was just sitting in there minding it's business? If you examine police use and carry statistics, and the medical costs, we could do a better job in training and get that human suffering down. It does require the officer being able to admit they are human. For the most part, tho, one refuses and sues the maker - it gets posted - the post gets 87elventy million hits and here we go again.

"But what about" doesn't justify the actual negligent discharge and they are in the much larger majority. It's human ego which refuses to admit the problem. I'd like to see all the wives of perfect husbands to wear a t shirt stating that. I never have seen one on the spouse of someone who shot themself.

We are human, will will make errors, and the first place winners in this race to qualify for the Darwin Award are those who think they can never make a mistake.

Tirod said:

The time and place for Open Carry could be a barbecue over at your buddies. But it doesn't mean you show up loaded. Well, the gun loaded.

There is a very small subset of situations where a human hand wasn't in direct contact with a firearm and it discharged. They are so rare that they get a lot of attention which blows the actual chance of it happening far out of proportion. The internet does that.

How many times did a firearm being holstered or unholstered go off vs one that was just sitting in there minding it's business? If you examine police use and carry statistics, and the medical costs, we could do a better job in training and get that human suffering down. It does require the officer being able to admit they are human. For the most part, tho, one refuses and sues the maker - it gets posted - the post gets 87elventy million hits and here we go again.

"But what about" doesn't justify the actual negligent discharge and they are in the much larger majority. It's human ego which refuses to admit the problem. I'd like to see all the wives of perfect husbands to wear a t shirt stating that. I never have seen one on the spouse of someone who shot themself.

We are human, will will make errors, and the first place winners in this race to qualify for the Darwin Award are those who think they can never make a mistake.

Click to expand...

I'm of the opinion the only time you unholster is when you fire, take the firearm off, or defend your life. Unless you want to unholster, clear it and reload after, there is no business unholstering outside of the fore mention reasons.

Plan2Live said:

Isn't open carry a version of show and tell?

Click to expand...

Yes it is. (They think it don't be like it is, but it do).
But, as we have seen posted by open carriers many times: "Nobody every says anything or cares". Therefore, most of the time its just show, no tell.

ClaymoreAKM said:

There is a time and place for Open Carry

Click to expand...

Omitting hunting, and I'm originally from KY - have lived in FL less than a year - so I ain't basing this on FL.

At get together with relatives, some of which may not be receptive to open carry: Nope.
At a "nice" restaurant. Nope.
Wal-Mart: BINGO.
Not saying that is you personally, but overall as a generalization, I ain't wrong.

JohnKSa said:

defend innocent life

Click to expand...

"innocent life" is not going to cut it for me. my gun is for "self defense". i know this is a bit off-topic, so ...

this video is a perfect example of "toy" gun handling skills.

the gun is always loaded,

murf

Correct me if I'm wrong, as I've never ever bought a brand new gun in box, but don't handguns in their original cases (I'm assuming the one in the video is nib) come with the manual in the case? Which details how to strip and clean it?

gobsauce said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, as I've never ever bought a brand new gun in box, but don't handguns in their original cases (I'm assuming the one in the video is nib) come with the manual in the case? Which details how to strip and clean it?

Click to expand...

Sure, and your new vehicle comes with a manual as well. Lots of products do. However, manuals are commonly unread except when they user is looking for specific information. You buy a toaster, do you read the manual from front to back? Most folks don't.

Double Naught Spy said:

Sure, and your new vehicle comes with a manual as well. Lots of products do. However, manuals are commonly unread except when they user is looking for specific information. You buy a toaster, do you read the manual from front to back? Most folks don't.

Click to expand...

I do, actually. There's a lot to learn from manuals. Did you know most microwaves have a mode where the timer doesn't make any noise? Some even have pots in them to mess with it's power output.

What I'm trying to get at, is that I do indeed read manuals. I guess I shouldn't assume my practices are the rule, and not the exception.

At least once a week one of my customers will want to show me his carry gun.....and I beg them to leave it in place.
Really, I transfer 1,500 handguns a year and the odds that Ive seen a Glock 19, Sig P365 or S&W Shield are pretty damn strong.

I have three signs showing:
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
Do not assemble, reassemble, disassemble, field strip, repair,
clean, degrease, or attach bayonets to your firearm while here........
.....wait until you get home.

Part of the problem is sellers telling the buyer to "inspect" the firearm before filling out the 4473. That doesn't mean disassemble and probe the innards, it means to verify that what you ordered and paid for is what is in front of you.

I get this a lot in my store, minus the retardation. "Mind if I pull this out?" "No, but clear it for me please."
And then I clear it too. And then he can show off if he wants to. If I get a whiff of stupidity in his process of drawing or handling the gun, like Bob Shotmufriend in the video did, then I hit the brakes hard and ask them to leave.

It's a gun shop. We have guns here. We welcome guns here, including examining, fixing, stripping, and just plain showing off guns here. What we don't welcome is stupidity. As an aside, I wonder if that gun he had was an older model Taurus Millennium. Those have an "interesting" quirk where they rely on force from the magazine spring to eject. If the magazine is removed there's a chance that, when you rack the slide, the extractor will pull the live round out of the chamber....and then put it right back in when the slide closes. Its one of the posterboy guns for the ole' pinkie check in the chamber.

DarkswordDX said:

I get this a lot in my store, minus the retardation. "Mind if I pull this out?" "No, but clear it for me please."

Click to expand...

There's a lot to be said for ASKING, too. For a variety of reasons.

Double Naught Spy said:

You buy a toaster, do you read the manual from front to back? Most folks don't.

Click to expand...

I used to read the manuals for everything I bought "from front to back," but it seems like in every manual I've gotten lately, about halfway through the writing turns upside-down and it's in some kind of foreign language.

Many years ago there was an open carry BBQ in PA somewhere that was reported by the local news. One of the comments the reporter made was that he/she was surprised that no matter who they asked, nobody would take their gun out of the holster.

Mainsail said:

Many years ago there was an open carry BBQ in PA somewhere that was reported by the local news.

Click to expand...

Curious - what is an "open carry BBQ?"

.308 Norma said:

Curious - what is an "open carry BBQ?"

Click to expand...

In the early days of the open carry movement (if you want to call it that) whenever the police would unjustifiably detain or harass someone for open carry, they would hold a BBQ and bring in dozens of open carry folks. We did the same thing in WA.

Oddly, the cops never bothered OC at gatherings, only when they could isolate one person and try to intimidate them.

Mainsail said:

In the early days of the open carry movement (if you want to call it that) whenever the police would unjustifiably detain or harass someone for open carry, they would hold a BBQ and bring in dozens of open carry folks. We did the same thing in WA.

Oddly, the cops never bothered OC at gatherings, only when they could isolate one person and try to intimidate them.

Click to expand...

More like the "Taurus Judge in an Uncle Mike's holster" movement.

UrbanHermit said:

More like the "Taurus Judge in an Uncle Mike's holster" movement.

Click to expand...

I can't even pretend to understand what that means.

gobsauce said:

I do indeed read manuals.

Click to expand...

Me too; almost always. I'd even read about how to put batteries in a flashlight-or how to peel an orange.

I've pulled out my firearm in a gun store before. But I always do 2 things a) ask before I do and b) properly (something not done in the incident video) clear it. My main LGS has a safe setup with products for sale inside. On one side is a large stack of books such as reloading manuals. Probably the best place in the store to clear a weapon, muzzle pointed toward those books.

herrwalther said:

I've pulled out my firearm in a gun store before. But I always do 2 things a) ask before I do and b) properly (something not done in the incident video) clear it. My main LGS has a safe setup with products for sale inside. On one side is a large stack of books such as reloading manuals. Probably the best place in the store to clear a weapon, muzzle pointed toward those books.

Click to expand...

I cannot think of a single good reason to remove or clear ones firearm when inside a gun store. "Muzzle pointed toward those books"? Are you kidding me? You consider a stack of books as a proper and safe backstop? That's incredible.

If you know you need gunsmithing, a new holster, looking to sell or trade, whatever...............clear your damn gun before you arrive at the gun store. Have it cased or in a box or gun rug with action open and a cable tie or chamber flag inserted. Leave your ammunition in the car.

THERE IS NO GOOD REASON TO CLEAR IN A STORE!!!!

Any gun store that lets a customer clear a loaded gun in their store...........is stupid beyond belief.

A guy wanted to see my gun at my local lgs (a pawn shop), so I went to my car, cleared it, and used a zip to lock the cylinder open. Took off my holster, and took it inside ,in the holster (no longer on my hip), and let him see it. Dunno, do you guys think I was in the wrong?

gobsauce said:

A guy wanted to see my gun at my local lgs (a pawn shop), so I went to my car, cleared it, and used a zip to lock the cylinder open. Took off my holster, and took it inside ,in the holster (no longer on my hip), and let him see it. Dunno, do you guys think I was in the wrong?

Click to expand...

Not necessarily. That was one perfectly safe example.

Just meant you were without your carry for a short period of time!

dogtown tom said:

I cannot think of a single good reason to remove or clear ones firearm when inside a gun store. "Muzzle pointed toward those books"? Are you kidding me? You consider a stack of books as a proper and safe backstop? That's incredible.

Click to expand...

A stack of books is better than my hand or flagging someone else, like in the incident video.

dogtown tom said:

If you know you need gunsmithing, a new holster, looking to sell or trade, whatever...............clear your damn gun before you arrive at the gun store. Have it cased or in a box or gun rug with action open and a cable tie or chamber flag inserted. Leave your ammunition in the car.

Click to expand...

In those cases yes, the firearm goes inside a case. Already unloaded. I have only done the procedure I mentioned earlier maybe 3 times. All with permission of the store owner.

dogtown tom said:

Any gun store that lets a customer clear a loaded gun in their store...........is stupid beyond belief.

Click to expand...

Just your opinion. If it is done correctly, there is little danger. I am not saying everyone should be clearing weapons in a store, although I know some odd stores that do require cleared weapons, even holstered ones. It just has to be done correctly.

dogtown tom said:

Any gun store that lets a customer clear a loaded gun in their store...........is stupid beyond belief.

Click to expand...

...I'll try not to take that personally.

JohnKSa said:

Rather than my passing judgement on a circumstance I wasn't there to observe, you can consider the answers to the following questions and then make your own assessment.

• When you drew your gun in the car to clear it, what was the safe direction you kept it pointed towards until it was unloaded?
• Presumably, you reloaded it later in the car so it could go back "on duty" once the show & tell session was over. Once it was loaded, what safe direction was it pointed towards until it was holstered safely?
• What was the worst that could have happened if you had declined the guy's request?
  
• What was the worst that could have happened if you had experienced an unintentional discharge in your car while clearing it or reloading it?

I think that disabling the gun was very wise--that prevents someone else from loading it, either maliciously or cluelessly while handling it. I confess that I do not carry zip ties around, nor any other convenient means of disabling a firearm short of disassembly.

By the way, what kind of holster do you have that allows you to holster your revolver with the cylinder locked open? That's got to be a pretty unusual design.

Click to expand...

1. It was aimed in the trunk of my car, had it gone off, it would've shot into my trunk, worst case scenario, into the asphalt.

2.same as 1. It can be noted, my car was facing a concrete wall, no cars/people to either side. Absolute worst case, in my opinion, it fires into the ground and ricochets into the wall.

3. Nothing at all, but y'all know the saying, curiosity killed the cat and satisfaction revived it. At least, that's what my baby sister says.

4. Look at 1. & 2.

I have to correct myself, I said I locked the cylinder open, when in reality locked it out of battery. Here's what I mean: (too lazy to go to the car, so a strip of latigo lace, thicker than my zips)


Excuse the mess. This is what I took, a sort of field holster I was just testing today. Took the holding strap off as I'm still experimenting. Hope it gets the idea across.

If anyone wants the pattern, lemme know.