CCH At A License Check

youngda9 · May 12, 2011

Laws requiring you to notify are BS...all in the name of police safety. A BG will lie anyways. There is absolutely no upside to informing if you don't have to.

Grey_Mana · May 12, 2011

He asked me, "do you think you are properly trained to carry a gun."

Easy way for him to get his arrest numbers up. If you say no, he can ask why, and if you tell him why, he can lead you further down the road toward admiting something that can be used against you.

Ben86 · May 12, 2011

This is why I don't bring it up unless the cop asks if I'm armed, which hasn't happened yet. In MS there is no requirement to inform and I appreciate that. Otherwise I would be open to harassment and criticism from every officer that doesn't agree with CC laws, and there are more of those than you might think.

I'd of course tell the officer before he commenced to searching me about my CCW, I don't want to surprise him.

It's really telling that the guy said "Sorry for the mix up." As if it is ok to harass people if they don't work for the PD.

rellascout · May 12, 2011

There is absolutely no upside to informing if you don't have to.

I do not agree with this. A traffic stop is vunerable position for an officer. If you are carrying and do not inform but the officer one way or another sees the gun you are greatly upping the chances of you getting shot or at the very least having a gun drawn on you.

rellascout · May 12, 2011

I hate that. I did some work with government in my past. I was pulled over once and the guy recognized me. He literally stopped writing the ticket. It felt disgusting. Are you a better class of person deserving of special consideration because you work with law enforcement? That's why I hate those little black stickers with the blue bars that the LEO's significant other displays. Is an LEO's marital partner more deserving of leniency than we lowly peasants' marital partners? Same goes for those "NC Justice System" license plate frames or the special tags for judges. This is a free society and we all deserve the same treatment during a traffic stop. I have many friends in law enforcemnt and I have the utmost respect for them, but they and their SO's should be subject to the same treatment and scrutiny as the rest of us.

My brother was a cop and then a Marine. He could drive up and down I95 without fear of getting a ticket. If he was pulled over he simply showed his credentials and they would let him go. Special rules for special people. :barf:

hso · May 12, 2011

I got his badge number and car number. I am actually in the process of typing up a formal complaint.

Good for you. Feed the complaint to the NC RKBA organizations as well.

NavyLCDR · May 12, 2011

The Lone Haranguer said:
I don't know what NC law is regarding this, but it seems likely this could have been avoided by not volunteering such information.

The situation could also have been avoided if the police had not violated the 4th Amendment to the US Constitution and actually obeyed the law themselves rather than engaging in criminal activity.

However, I also subscribe to the belief that my lawfully carried firearm is none of a police officer's business. If I am not required to inform by law, I won't.

dodo bird · May 12, 2011

I think everyone is missing the point of getting pulled over with no cause. Reminds me of Mexico.

9mm+ · May 12, 2011

I do not agree with this. A traffic stop is vunerable position for an officer. If you are carrying and do not inform but the officer one way or another sees the gun you are greatly upping the chances of you getting shot or at the very least having a gun drawn on you.

I agree 100%. In NC, if the LEO spots a firearm in the car or on your body and you haven't informed him/her that you're carrying, you're going to get shoved to the asphalt very quickly while staring at the business end of a service pistol. We're always petitioning to get more reasonable gun laws in NC with some modest successes, but until then we should play by the rules. No need to take a bullet over this -- literally or figuratively. The fight belongs in the ballot box.

rellascout · May 12, 2011

I think everyone is missing the point of getting pulled over with no cause. Reminds me of Mexico

Use the public roads or highway system is not a right. Lic checks and sobriety check points have been upheld many times over as Constitutional. I do not like them but when done properly they are not Unconstitutional.

9mm+ · May 12, 2011

I don't like the need to inform, but I will comply with it. Consequently, we're contemplating a move to a more gun-friendly state. While there have been changes in NC for the better, the pace of change is much slower than I would care for. The liberal/anti-gun migration to NC is greater than the conservative/pro-gun; I'm actually surprised that we've seen any positive changes to date, but we have had a few. It's an anomaly, though, and I don't see this sustaining. In the Triangle area, I feel completely outnumbered by the anti's.

Zach S · May 12, 2011

I do not agree with this. A traffic stop is vunerable position for an officer. If you are carrying and do not inform but the officer one way or another sees the gun you are greatly upping the chances of you getting shot or at the very least having a gun drawn on you.

And yet, if you surrender your firearm, your four year old may get swept by the muzzle, twice, or you may have an officer hand you a hot sidearm so you can clear it for his safety...

rellascout · May 12, 2011

And yet, if you surrender your firearm, your four year old may get swept by the muzzle, twice, or you may have an officer hand you a hot sidearm so you can clear it for his safety...

All poodles are dogs not all dogs are poodles.

9mm+ · May 12, 2011

And yet, if you surrender your firearm, your four year old may get swept by the muzzle, twice, or you may have an officer hand you a hot sidearm so you can clear it for his safety...

The alternative is to not inform and break the law, which could get your CCH license revoked or worse. These actions hurt all lawful CCH holders who worked very hard to get this law passed and carry responsibly every day.

Hangingrock · May 12, 2011

North Carolina used to be a decent state to live in, however we have now been overrun by yankees from New York*, New Jersey*, etc., who have brought their liberal, anti-gun agenda with them.

There has not been a Republican Governor of NC elected since 1988. All the governor’s since then have been Democrat and I believe native born of this state. This you can not blame on the Yankees. This is more or less self-inflicted.

The Republicans now have control of the State Senate and House of Representatives now when was the last time that occurred. The ills in NC can not be blamed on Yankees. Place the blame where it lays at the feet of the native born.

rellascout · May 12, 2011

We're contemplating a move to a more gun-friendly state. While there have been changes in NC for the better, the pace of change is much slower than I would care for. The liberal/anti-gun migration to NC is greater than the conservative/pro-gun; I'm actually surprised that we've seen any positive changes to date, but we have had a few. It's an anomaly, though, and I don't see this sustaining. In the Triangle area, I feel completely outnumbered by the anti's.

Lic checks and their Constitutionality has nothing to do with guns IMHO. Many states that are pro gun practice these types of stops. VA and WV come to mind.

ny32182 · May 12, 2011

If cop sees your gun, you have "informed" him; just not in an ideally controlled fashion.

We should all have the discresion to inform or not. If you are open carrying, obviously it is probably prudent to say something before the cop spots it. If you are concealed, in my opinion there is no upside whatever to informing; except for the possibility of ending up with your own gun pointed at you, like the OP.

I've been pulled over several times while carrying (I'm in a "must inform" state). Normally it is a complete non-issue, but one time I was required to stand there with my back to the cop while he monkeys with my gun; muzzle going who knows where... at least I had a Glock that was very much like his. It is not a good situation. If I was ever shot by a cop with my own gun, I would have no qualms about suing the state for millions. If this has never happened, it is only a matter of time.

rellascout · May 12, 2011

The alternative is to not inform and break the law, which could get your CCH license revoked or worse. These actions hurt all lawful CCH holders who worked very hard to get this law passed and carry responsibly every day.

The mentality of not informing when there is a law to do so is a perfect example of one step forward 3 steps back.

If a large number of people were found not complying it would be used by those who are against the right to carry. It would put otherwise lawful people on the wrong side of the law. Why would a lawful gun owner advocate that?

doc.lonestar · May 12, 2011

If you provided the proper id showing you had a chl and the weapon is legal this never should have happened. It is a shame that this happened to you and your child.

I am the belief that if I do nothing wrong then I should not be treated as though I did. Thank goodness you were able to leave with your weapon. I watched Navajo Cops the other night on Natgeo and they confisicated this guys weapon because he did not have proof that the weapon was purchased legally. I for one do not carry reciepts for my weapons. They are locked up in my safe. Numbers came back clean. He was within the law of the state but because he was driving thru Navajo land (the rules changed) he should have declared the weapon. The driver was chl holder - did not break any laws EXCEPT for not declaring to the Navajo police officer - this lead to the confisication and other tickets.

I hope that all ends well for you.

9mm+ · May 12, 2011

Lic checks and their Constitutionality has nothing to do with guns IMHO. Many states that are pro gun practice these types of stops. VA and WV come to mind.

Rellascout -- my comment was not regarding the license check, but the need to inform in NC (and another half-dozen gun-unfriendly laws, too). I have gone back to that post and revised it for clarity.

ForumSurfer · May 12, 2011

For the record, not all of the stops are like this. A state trooper pulled me over last week. After I notified him of my my CHP and that I was carrying, he never asked anything further about it. That's what should happen after I notify him. Relieving me of my weapon further endangers the officer, myself and anyone else in the vehicle if I haven't demonstrated threatening activity. He did however write me a seat-belt ticket. He also didn't mention that my break light was out, which I found out after I failed inspection. :/

9mm+ · May 12, 2011

There has not been a Republican Governor of NC elected since 1988. All the governor’s since then have been Democrat and I believe native born of this state. This you can not blame on the Yankees. This is more or less self-inflicted.

The Republicans now have control of the State Senate and House of Representatives now when was the last time that occurred. The ills in NC can not be blamed on Yankees. Place the blame where it lays at the feet of the native born.

I would agree with your comments on the state level but not the local level, especially in places like Cary. There is a very strong liberal influence here by permanent snowbirds, including active petitions to have local establishments ban any concealed firearm. It really annoys the crap out of me. I suppose other parts of the state are better, but you won't find too many Carolina accents in Cary or Chapel Hill, and there is an active anti-gun lobby.

henschman · May 12, 2011

rellascout said:
If a large number of people were found not complying it would be used by those who are against the right to carry. It would put otherwise lawful people on the wrong side of the law. Why would a lawful gun owner advocate that?

Because they have no right to demand that we inform them of such a thing... plus the fact that it avoids a couple of different possibilities that carry the risk of a negative outcome for you.

And there is no way that a large number of people could be found to be not complying. How would they be caught? That illustrates one of the many absurdities about this law -- the fact that nobody would typically know you have a concealed weapon unless you voluntarily inform them, which if you do shows that you obviously mean no harm. If you did, their notification would come in the form of a bullet.

And though I disagree with you about the duty to obey laws which violate one's rights, I do like the Ayn Rand quotes in your sig!

Here is another one of my favorites:

Then I saw what was wrong with the world, I saw what destroyed men and nations, and where the battle for life had to be fought. I saw that the enemy was an inverted morality—and that my sanction was its only power. I saw that evil was impotent—that evil was the irrational, the blind, the anti-real—and that the only weapon of its triumph was the willingness of the good to serve it. Just as the parasites around me were proclaiming their helpless dependence on my mind and were expecting me voluntarily to accept a slavery they had no power to enforce, just as they were counting on my self-immolation to provide them with the means of their plan—so throughout the world and throughout men’s history, in every version and form, from the extortions of loafing relatives to the atrocities of collectivized countries, it is the good, the able, the men of reason, who act as their own destroyers, who transfuse to evil the blood of their virtue and let evil transmit to them the poison of destruction, thus gaining for evil the power of survival, and for their own values—the impotence of death. I saw that there comes a point, in the defeat of any man of virtue, when his own consent is needed for evil to win—and that no manner of injury done to him by others can succeed if he chooses to withhold his consent. I saw that I could put an end to your outrages by pronouncing a single word in my mind. I pronounced it. The word was “No.”
-- Ayn Rand

Owen Sparks · May 12, 2011

The conventional wisdom when dealing with the police is:

NEVER VOLUNTEER INFORMATION.

Unless you are required by law to disclose that you have a pistol, (some states do) it is better to keep your mouth shut. If the cop asked to see your driver’s license and that is all you are legally obligated to do, this sort of thing can been avoided.

You would not ask: "You're not going to look in the trunk are you"? Of course not, that would be stupid, so is inviting a search by announcing that you are armed when you are not required to.

rellascout · May 12, 2011

And there is no way that a large number of people could be found to be not complying. How would they be caught? That illustrates one of the many absurdities about this law -- the fact that nobody would typically know you have a concealed weapon unless you voluntarily inform them, which if you do shows that you obviously mean no harm. If you did, their notification would come in the form of a bullet.

"Large number" is a moving target.

Let me try again. For example for the sake of arguement 50 CCH holders in the state of NC were drawn down on after being pulled from a car because a cop saw the gun after they did not inform. No one was shot but some degree of physical harm was done to the CCH holder and those 50 people lost their permits. IIRC you are required to inform in NC.

Now this is might be a relatively small number relative to the number of permits and it might also be a small number vs the people who did not inform and did not get caught but.... Would that harm the state of CCHs in NC?

CCH At A License Check

member

Member

Member

member

member

Moderator

member

Member

Member

member

Member

Member

member

Member

Member

member

Member

member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

member

member

Similar threads