No weapons allowed

Vern Humphrey said:

If you do something you know is likely to end badly, you can hardly call that "blame the victim" mentality. You KNOW it's wrong to leave a gun in an unattended vehicle.

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"Likely"? That's a stretch.

Jason_W said:

I would respect the wishes of the owners of the establishment and not bring a firearm onto their property. I'd just find another place or, if the distance wasn't too great, drop my gun off at home and go back.

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I can't think of ANY circumstances where I'd do that.

There continues to be a lively debate within the DoD as to the effectiveness of "gun free" zones on Federal property. You generally won't see it on the news however.

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Yup.

To paraphrase the Active Shooter course, "As a last resort, use any improvised weapon you can find. Be aggressive, and fight through pain. Do not stop until the threat has been neutralized."

It's of little reassurance to those without any martial arts training, and downright offensive to those with carry permits or a combat arms background. I'm sure as I'm charging at the next Nidal Hassan with my Hissatu folder I'm going to be ever so grateful for the DoD's policies.

Most of those signs in places where carrying is prohibited by law are for making people who are nervous over people carrying guns feel "safe" in a gun free zone...and the proprietors know it.

Oh, they'll send someone to ask you to leave if you're carrying openly...but they know that concealed is concealed and if they don't know it's there, there's nothing that they can do about it. They're not about to pat everybody down before they allow them inside.

Sometimes the signs are posted for insurance purposes. "No Loaded Weapons" in gun shops are examples. Privately, the owners will tell you that they don't have a problem with people carrying holstered, concealed weapons...or even openly carried weapons...as long as they stay holstered.

Devonai said:

Yup.

To paraphrase the Active Shooter course, "As a last resort, use any improvised weapon you can find. Be aggressive, and fight through pain. Do not stop until the threat has been neutralized."

It's of little reassurance to those without any martial arts training, and downright offensive to those with carry permits or a combat arms background. I'm sure as I'm charging at the next Nidal Hassan with my Hissatu folder I'm going to be ever so grateful for the DoD's policies.

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During the active shooter training in our office (DoD) the instructor, when mildly pressed, admitted that they had no effective way of keeping a shooter out if one were determined to get in, especially if it was an “inside job”.

I observed, and she begrudgingly concurred, that we were being protected by the same system used to protect doughnuts in the break-room- the honor system.

The DoD uses the two-pronged approach to personnel security; good luck and the honor system.

Below the "No Weapons Allowed....." sign, it would be nice (if legal) to post your own sign, "None of My Money Allowed Here Either".

Would never work, but one can dream.

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Actually, it can.

Try a letter to the owners saying, "I don't feel safe in your establishment, because you do not provide security, and you don't allow me to provide my own security. So I don't patronize you."

AlexanderA said:

I think that carrying weapons routinely creates a kind of psychological dependency. I live in Virginia, but for 30 years I worked in the District of Columbia (parts of which are notorious high-crime areas). The entire District is a "no weapons allowed" zone, and on top of that I worked in a secure government building that was doubly a "no weapons allowed" zone. (Plus I traveled overseas in countries where weapons ownership/possession was highly frowned upon -- meaning that they put you in jail and throw away the key.) So under such circumstances you get used to not carrying and you adjust your behavior accordingly. This is actually somewhat liberating.

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Funny, when being liberated one also becomes a victim when some looney tunes presents themselves with a weapon; against the rules.

I respectfully disagree.

scaatylobo said:

It would be a very sad day that you chose to go unarmed --- and that "gun free zone" sign did not work and a bad person came in WITH A GUN,and took your life.

Just my 00.02 cents.

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I'm afraid I agree with enthusiasm.

Vern Humphrey said:

And that is why I say anyone who denies you the right to bear arms automatically assumes an absolute liability for your safety.

Look at it this way, if you have a swimming pool in your yard, and a local child climbs over the fence and drowns, who's at fault? You are -- for maintaining an "attractive nuisance."

A store or place of business is there to ATTRACT customers. If it fails to protect them, it is liable.

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Trouble is it's difficult to collect from the law suit if one is dead.

Trouble is it's difficult to collect from the law suit if one is dead.

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Give your wife instructions to sue if you are ever killed in an area where you are disarmed by regulations or signs.

I have a concealed weapon license and like the name implies, it is concealed.... and I don't return to that business.

It is kind of refreshing to read these post and hear how attitudes have changed.

Not long ago people were openly and strongly defending the right of various businesses to ban guns from their premises, and citing non-existent statistics to "prove" that you were as safe in a "gun free zone" as anywhere else.

While I don't deny the right of these businesses to ban guns, it is a very stupid policy, and a very cynical one.

On the other hand, there have been a number of incidents where concealed carry people have stopped robberies and possibly prevented tragedies. In particular, the incident in a Philadelphia hospital, which had a no gun policy. A doctor used his gun to shoot a deranged individual who had just shot his case worker, and according to the police, saved not only his own life, but probably prevented a mass shooting. If that doctor had not violated the Hospital policy, we probably would have been looking at another mass shooting with more calls for gun control and restrictions.

My personal policy is to ignore such signs, unless they have the force of law behind them, such as courthouses and other places as stated in the law.
I also make a point of not patronizing such places, so the part about ignoring them is largely beside the point.

Go in. That's why it's called CONCEALED carry.
Except in Government buildings like courthouses where they have metal detectors...

If I have no choice but to go to the business (say, if I'm shopping with someone at the time and they are determined to go in) I'll generally disarm. I will then likely never go back to that place of business.

Loved the mall I was in earlier. NO signs posted on the doors, but one little one somewhere in the middle of the mall, on the wall? What that heck good was that doing there? I have no clue.

In light of currect events

I am sure this is not allowed [ ? ].

But I ask y'all if in the light of current events ,such as Ferguson,NYC,Fla,Staten Isl,

Do any of those that felt no "need" to be armed ---- change of heart yet ?.

If not,what in the wide world of sports would it take to do that ?.

I need not do anything differently,do you feel the need and if so are you training to do so ?.

If you suddenly decide to go armed,do you train for CCW [ really CONCEALED ]and shoot and draw in preparation for same ?.

The signs are worth o so much recycling around here and at the most they can ask you to leave then have you trespassed, which they can do if they don't like your shirt so other than work i carry.

A local market changed hands while I was stationed in NC. When I moved back in here in OH, there was a "No guns" sign on the door. It was the only market in the tiny little town, and I told them that all the money I would have been spending there would now require a car trip to spend elsewhere. The new owners asked around about me and I got a call about it. I was polite, and found they had questions that were easy to answer. They were new to the state and thought the sign was a requirement for some reason. The sign went down the next day. I have spent over $2000 in there since. In a small town market that is a good bit.

Edit: Unfortunately, I work in a federal building (recruiting office) and they don't give as easily. But nor is it enforced too well.

I don't think I've ever noticed a sign like that, at least not in a way that could be proven.

Will someone explain to me how it's bad and bigotted to refuse service to someone who's gay. but perfectly okay to refuse service to someone who's exercising his Second Amendment rights.

"They're not about to pat everybody down...." Maybe not yet but that seems to be the direction we're going. If it saves one life..... For the children. Common sense. Heck, I still remember when you could board an airliner while carrying a gun and nobody cared.

bangswitch said:

Same here in NC.

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bangswitch, signs DO carry with weight of law in NC.

From handgunlaw.us....

No guns signs DO carry the weight of Law in NC...

Do “No Gun Signs” Have the Force of Law?
“YES”
§ 14-415.11. Permit to Carry Concealed Handgun; Scope of Permit.
(c) Except as provided in G.S. 14-415.27, a permit does not authorize a person to carry a concealed
handgun in any of the following:
www.handgunlaw.us 5
(8) On any private premises where notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the
posting of a conspicuous notice or statement by the person in legal possession or control of the

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Edited to add: I confirmed this with the Assisant DA in my county. The only grey area is "posting of a conspicuous notice." We had this conversation after I saw a small sign entering the main mall area with a "list of rules" sign. I think #11 on the list said no weapons. He didn't think that notice was sufficient, but ultimately it's to the judge. He said personally he would not prosecute for such a small notice.

I dont pay a lick of attention to those signs. That's when the "concealed" part of concealed carry really shines. Sorry if my spurs jangle a little here but If you see me anywhere there's not a metal detector, you can bet my sr9 is right there IWB on my hip.

How is ignoring a "No Weapons" sign materially different than the debate about whether or not a bakery has to bake a cake for someone whom they do not wish to bake a cake?

Proprietors, in my opinion, should be able to choose their clientele just like consumers should be able to choose where to spend their time and cash.

If I see the sign, I oblige and do not enter. Tends to not be much of a problem in Alabama.

And that is why I say anyone who denies you the right to bear arms automatically assumes an absolute liability for your safety.

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OH BS - just do not go in. THOSE folks have rights as well; funny how many here want to trample those in pursuit of their own. Their house/business, their rules. Don't like it? Don't go in.