What did you carry to church today?

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For several years I went to my edc on Sundays , a S&W 60 .38 special. But I got to thinking --- that might be a good carry in the event of a personal robbery or car jacking attempt , but woefully inadequate for (God forbid) a church attack scenario. 5 rounds , snub barrel in da...? Better than nothing , but lots of room for improvement.
Now I carry my trusty S&W 5906 9mm , along with a second magazine. 31 rounds is better than 5.
 
Waveski said:
For several years I went to my edc on Sundays , a S&W 60 .38 special. But I got to thinking --- that might be a good carry in the event of a personal robbery or car jacking attempt , but woefully inadequate for (God forbid) a church attack scenario. 5 rounds , snub barrel in da...?
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I like the way you think... to me ‘self defence’ Isn’t nearly as important a defending others... I carry, not because I’m around bad people, but whenever I’m around innocents.
 
bluejeans said:
I like the way you think... to me ‘self defence’ Isn’t nearly as important a defending others... I carry, not because I’m around bad people, but whenever I’m around innocents.
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I carry a gun first and foremost to enable me to protect myself and my family. I do not carry a gun with the specific intent of "defending innocents" and I tend to be a little leery of permit holders who do.
 
Trunk Monkey said:
I carry a gun first and foremost to enable me to protect myself and my family. I do not carry a gun with the specific intent of "defending innocents" and I tend to be a little leery of permit holders who do.
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My reasoning in choice of carry for church : I have selected a handgun which , in the worst case scenario , will hopefully enable me to disrupt the evil shooter long enough so that my wife and kids can make a run for the door. Maybe even stop him altogether , but at least disrupt. Tall order for a 5 shot snub. I reason that most subjects who carry out such attacks would not perform all that well in the face of return fire, and the more return fire the better. The historic tendency for such shooters to turn their weapon on themselves when armed help arrives would support that , I think.

Now , if such a counter attack enables other members of the congregation , more "innocents" , to make it to safety , all the better.

I know , I know , it is easy to conjure up such a counter response from the safety of my home and castle , warm cup o' joe next to the keyboard , but - would I pull it off in a crisis? I , who did not serve and train? Won't know unless it happens , but it pays to have a preconceived plan of action , I believe.
 
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The folks at church are not merely "innocents" with whom I have no (or almost no) normal contact. They are (almost all, anyway. Some of them I don't know as well as I probably should) friends and some are close enough to be "reasonable facsimile" for family.

This is the benefit of a smaller church ;)

Also, they are not just "innocents" that need me to defend them! I know pretty well for sure that at least someone else will be shooting back before I start! (If one of the deacons in the sound room doesn't just grab the bad guy and sit on him... That actually may be more likely!)

So... yes, I am going to do my utmost to stop our nefarious hypothetical villain from shooting ANYONE.

This is my decision for church. At Walmart? Not so much (Walmart also has their own security folks, more avenues of escape etc.). I do not primarily carry to defend everyone else. But my church IS my family.
 
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This is a little complicated but even though I'm not officially a member of my church security team, I train with them, I qualify with them and I am expected to respond if there's an incident.
I mention that because I don't want anyone thinking I'm going to church with a "Everyone else is on their own" attitude.

My concern is the "Sheep Dog" mindset that I see displayed in some permit holders. I've seen some permit holders buy into Grossman's Bovine Organic Fertilizer Components and get this idea that they have a sacred duty to "guard the flock" (not in the Christian sense). I've seen that attitude lead to trouble. For instance the guy who USED to be on our church security team who was going to detain a parishioner for putting his kids in his car without a car seat. As I mentioned earlier I tend to be leery of people who display it
 
Waveski said:
My reasoning in choice of carry for church : I have selected a handgun which , in the worst case scenario , will hopefully enable me to disrupt the evil shooter long enough so that my wife and kids can make a run for the door. Maybe even stop him altogether , but at least disrupt. Tall order for a 5 shot snub. I reason that most subjects who carry out such attacks would not perform all that well in the face of return fire, and the more return fire the better. The historic tendency for such shooters to turn their weapon on themselves when armed help arrives would support that , I think.

Now , if such a counter attack enables other members of the congregation , more "innocents" , to make it to safety , all the better.

I know , I know , it is easy to conjure up such a counter response from the safety of my home and castle , warm cup o' joe next to the keyboard , but - would I pull it off in a crisis? I , who did not serve and train? Won't know unless it happens , but it pays to have a preconceived plan of action , I believe.
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I don't switch out my carry gun. I carry the same gun at church I do everywhere else. If the threat level is bad enough that I need to up armor then it's bad enough that I don't need to be there
 
This thread is devolving.

Trunk monkey you’re getting worked up over assumptions... when I said innocents I was specifically thinking of my 4 and 1 yr old kids... not some reference to ‘every dumb sheep who doesn’t carry a gun... and I am about as far removed from big brother mentality as one can get.
You seem to have a chip on your shoulder and I’m not sure why. Maybe I used the wrong word
 
I do sometimes go to VA for synagogue. I don't really like the synagogues here in Columbia so I have the DC and Baltimore areas to choose from. I much prefer the DC area Jewish community to Baltimore. If I'm already going to drive 40-50min to go to synagogue in Olney or Rockville, why not drive 55-60min to go to Saturday services in Fairfax, Arlington or Alexandria? I do go local for Friday evening services (when I go) since DC area traffic on a Friday night is terrible.

So, when I can go to services and carry, I pretty much carry what I normally carry (the small and medium end of what I normally carry, not the larger end since I want to be able to tuck my IWB tuckable holsters). So, no LCP or similar for me. I carry, in an IWB tuckable holster, usually tucked, often hidden behind a blazer, sport coat, or suit, my SIG P290RS (when I go that small, which I don't much anymore), or more recently, my S&W M&P40c or RIA Rock CS (Officer sized 1911 with better sights and grips than their mil-spec model). The larger SIG P250 Compact (before I "retired" it to home defense/bedside gun duty), S&W 1911SC, or CZ P01 are a bit big for the amount of movement during services (with the bowing, sitting, standing, and repeat of services it is more likely to show than every day circumstances) and how crowded it can sometimes be (if there is a Bar or Bat Mitzvah you can be shoulder to shoulder with other people).
 
I carry the Thunder 15 round 380
bikerdoc said:
index.php

380 Bersa CC
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I'm with armoredman. I go to church for weddings and funerals. Neither are are high up on my bucket list.

Sooo, I'll take my chances with the good guys that do carry.
 
Trunk Monkey said:
I carry a gun first and foremost to enable me to protect myself and my family. I do not carry a gun with the specific intent of "defending innocents" and I tend to be a little leery of permit holders who do.
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Not only that, but in some states it is on shaky legal ground. in some states you may only use lethal force to defend yourself, immediate family members, and close personal acquaintances (Yes, I realize that "close personal acquaintances" leaves a lot of room for interpretation). As a comment, this is from my PC 832 class when taking my Reserve Officer training back in the 1980's, things may have changed since then.
 
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paulsj said:
I will not carry a gun into The House of God because I have faith nothing bad will happen to me there.
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If you don't carry outside of church, that makes sense.

If you do carry outside of church but not in church that is definitely a choice that many make.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sutherland_Springs_church_shooting

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charleston_church_shooting

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kizlyar_church_shooting

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burnette_Chapel_shooting

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daingerfield_church_shooting
 
I remember that back in the 70's, when violent crime was more common than it is today, that there were people who complained about uniformed officers, "bringing their guns into the church." Yes, it seems not only naive, but more than a bit rude.

I remember it because my father was a voting deacon and he used to take me to the meetings for two reasons, the first is what he told me at the time, so that I could see how organizations, even those founded for the best purposes, really operate. I learned the meaning of one of his quotes, "the biggest battles are often fought over the smallest of hills." I think the other reason was in answer to the question, "would you be proud if your children saw you doing . . . .?"

Back to the complaint, I remember my father tearing into them. He seldom did that at those meetings; but that complaint was just too much. These guys were pulling a shift in dress uniforms, with white gloves, as a show of respect for the institution of the church. Further, they were making an effort to be in Church. For an officer, on duty, in a major city, it is an effort. He then fell back on the "Jesus and the Centurion" story. I don't recall the issue ever being visited again.

The church I go to generally has two officers, in uniform. That means a couple of police cars in front during mass. In addition to that, I know several others who carry, including a teacher who just retired. My daughter went to a different church with the family of a friend of mine. She was surprised by the number of people carrying. He told her that it was normal for that church. While it is definitely NOT what KOC is about, at his church they get together, discuss church security and shoot on a regular basis.

As far as God will save me, I am reminded of this basic homily:
A terrible storm came into a town and local officials sent out an emergency warning that the riverbanks would soon overflow and flood the nearby homes. They ordered everyone in the town to evacuate immediately.

A faithful Christian man heard the warning and decided to stay, saying to himself, “I will trust God and if I am in danger, then God will send a divine miracle to save me.”

The neighbors came by his house and said to him, “We’re leaving and there is room for you in our car, please come with us!” But the man declined. “I have faith that God will save me.”

As the man stood on his porch watching the water rise up the steps, a man in a canoe paddled by and called to him, “Hurry and come into my canoe, the waters are rising quickly!” But the man again said, “No thanks, God will save me.”

The floodwaters rose higher pouring water into his living room and the man had to retreat to the second floor. A police motorboat came by and saw him at the window. “We will come up and rescue you!” they shouted. But the man refused, waving them off saying, “Use your time to save someone else! I have faith that God will save me!”

The flood waters rose higher and higher and the man had to climb up to his rooftop.

A helicopter spotted him and dropped a rope ladder. A rescue officer came down the ladder and pleaded with the man, "Grab my hand and I will pull you up!" But the man STILL refused, folding his arms tightly to his body. “No thank you! God will save me!”

Shortly after, the house broke up and the floodwaters swept the man away and he drowned.

When in Heaven, the man stood before God and asked, “I put all of my faith in You. Why didn’t You come and save me?”

And God said, “Son, I sent you a warning. I sent you a car. I sent you a canoe. I sent you a motorboat. I sent you a helicopter. What more were you looking for?”
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Missed this somehow. Easter Sunday my wife wanted me to wear a suit. I usually don't. Since I was all dressed up I decided to carry what for me is a dressy gun my SR-1911 in a Galco Fletch holster with a double magazine carrier on my belt on my off side. What I carry there depends on how I am dressed that particular day. I never carried in church until I wound up on the security team. One of our deacons does the men's breakfasts. Once a year he has everyone come out to his house & they do a mixed grill & let anyone that cares to shoot. I was shooting when one of the elders walked up. He watched me then struck up a conversation. After we talked he told me they were putting a security team together & suggested I talk to the pastor. I did. Next thing I knew I had volunteered.
 
Today I was mowing so it was a glock42 in a pocket holster. I usually carry a Glock 26 during services we are in the process of forming a official security team we have a Deputy sheriff and a city detective as members plus myself and 2 others
 
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