Coming home to an intruder...

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Once again, "Leave the house, and call authorities."

Oh, absolutely. And it has a great sound to it, right ?

Most folks, in their home, are either curious, or would be considered to be responding normally, when they hear a bump, or strange sound, in their house, and their first impulse is to simply go look at what is causing the noise. I know I would feel like a complete moron,(being only a partial one, at this point) if I called the Sheriff in, every time this old house made a strange noise.

Could be the cat, knocking something over, the house settling, or some snake, or possum, that got in somehow.

I'm NOT trying to make a major point here, or develop ironclad doctrine, for dealing with the situation, it's just a discussion, that's all. Being reasonable, about people's reactions to things, brings to light that when their guard is down, they are going to act differently. Thinking one is in the haven of one's home can have the result of catching us unaware. Looking for a few anecdotes, observations, suggestions, and maybe a couple interesting stories, is all.

As to "needless sarcasm", I don't call out "needless patronizing" do I ? In obvious situations, yes, it's also obvious, the first thing you do, is contact the authorities, and
let them handle it. BUT:
1.- Everybody returns home, every day, to the potential of an unidentified intruder. So this is a situation, which lies before all of us, every day. And like it or not, most of us, at this point, are rounding third base, and not anticipating the game going into extra innings, in our own dugout.
2.-There's the distinct possibility the intruder may not be immediately detected, and this individual may or may not be enabled, entitled, deranged, confused, or God forbid, aggressive.
 
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Dibbs said:
Once again, "Leave the house, and call authorities.
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Yep.


Dibbs said:
Most folks, in their home, are either curious, or would be considered to be responding normally, when they hear a bump, or strange sound, in their house, and their first impulse is to simply go look at what is causing the noise.
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You seem to have changed the subject from one involving arriving home to one that has to do with being in the home.

We have discussed that ad nauseam in numerous threads over the years.
 
Dibbs said:
Most folks, in their home, are either curious, or would be considered to be responding normally, when they hear a bump, or strange sound, in their house, and their first impulse is to simply go look at what is causing the noise.
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You're talking about something completely different than the topic of this discussion. This isn't what to I do if I hear some random noise. This is what do I do if I come home and have some legitimate reason to believe there's an intruder in my home

I've been required to clear a few buildings as part of my job and I hate it. Of all the things I do at work clearing buildings scares me more than anything else I do. I won't do it if I have any other option.

The morning I came home and there was someone in my apartment my first clue was the open door. If that happens tomorrow I'm probably still going to have to go in because my wife is going to be at home. But I'll call the cops first.

FWIW another reason not to clear your own home is what I ran into. God Forbid I shot that man even if I was 100% justified then found out he was a senile old fool who probably didn't even know where he was.
 
Unless you've been broken into, it's hard to what if every situation.

In our case, our back door was kicked in. We were not home. We showed up to police at our house. The neighbor saw from her two story window the guy breaking in during the day. She called the cops and the cops sent a dog in after the guy after he wouldn't come out and the dog and the cops wrestled him in our master bedroom.

We were 10 minutes from walking in on this. No car, no sign of entry other than the back door was kicked in. And you could not have seen that until you got into the house and out of the front entry way area! So we were very close to having this happen to us. It's what finally convinced my wife to carry a gun on her at all times. I asked her what good the guns in the safe in the home or in the car would do if she walked in on that with our small kids in tow.
 
As to "needless sarcasm", I don't call out "needless patronizing" do I ?
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Don't be ridiculous. You have not been patronized, you are mis-interpreting the good advice you've been given as patronizing because you don't like it.
Most folks, in their home, are either curious, or would be considered to be responding normally, when they hear a bump, or strange sound, in their house, and their first impulse is to simply go look at what is causing the noise. I know I would feel like a complete moron,(being only a partial one, at this point) if I called the Sheriff in, every time this old house made a strange noise.
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Different situation, different tactics.
Once again, "Leave the house, and call authorities."

Oh, absolutely. And it has a great sound to it, right ?
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It may not sound great, but it's the approach that has the best chance of keeping the homeowner alive. If the goal is protecting one's ego, the tactics are completely different compared to protecting one's life.
1.- Everybody returns home, every day, to the potential of an unidentified intruder. So this is a situation, which lies before all of us, every day. And like it or not, most of us, at this point, are rounding third base, and not anticipating the game going into extra innings, in our own dugout.
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Yes, that's completely true. Which is why it makes sense to take steps that make it very easy to detect if the house has been breached.
2.-There's the distinct possibility the intruder may not be immediately detected, and this individual may or may not be enabled, entitled, deranged, confused, or God forbid, aggressive
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Again, this is why it's so important to be able to tell if the house has been breached before entering.

The homeowner is at a tremendous disadvantage if they do enter when there's an intruder present which is why it is so critical not to do so.

Did you watch the video I posted? During the period where the room was being cleared, how many opportunities did the intruders have to kill one of the officers?

The situation you want to deal with is even worse than that--the officers already knew someone was in that tiny room, they just had to find them. The situation you've set up has you in your home with an intruder but totally unaware of that fact.

As I've said before, if that's the situation you want a recipe for, here it is: Hope that they don't press their advantage. That's it. How can you deal with a threat that you don't know about?

Even after you do finally realize there's someone in there with you (assuming you realize it before they attack), you're still behind the 8 ball. Now you're in the situation that the officers in the video are. How could they proceed to clear the room without giving the intruders the chance to kill them if that's what the intruders are determined to do? I don't have the answer to that question. Now imagine that they have to clear an entire house instead of just one tiny room...
 
Dibbs said:
Most folks, in their home, are either curious, or would be considered to be responding normally, when they hear a bump, or strange sound, in their house, and their first impulse is to simply go look at what is causing the noise. I know I would feel like a complete moron,(being only a partial one, at this point) if I called the Sheriff in, every time this old house made a strange noise.
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Red Herring. This is not about the "bump in the night". Stick to the point of the thread.
 
what alarm system doesn't have a battery back up? door alarms, window glass breaks, and motion detectors are all part of a decent alarm system. of course the standard out door lighting and fencing should go without saying.
 
Should one come home to find an intruder in the house, and if there is also a loved one inside, one may be faced with the necessity of entering an extremely dangerous situation.

If there is no one else inside, the resident is not faced with that serious danger.

On other thing: there are provisions in the laws of most states that provide a resident who is faced the unlawful forcible entry of his occupied domicile with certain presumptions that can be helpful in a legal defense of self defense.

The resident who returns to his unoccupied home will not have that benefit.
 
JERRY said:
what alarm system doesn't have a battery back up? door alarms, window glass breaks, and motion detectors are all part of a decent alarm system. of course the standard out door lighting and fencing should go without saying.
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And there may be some of us that don't have that alarm system. Rent, utilities, etc, expenses pile up, some folks haven't gotten around to the installation of a functioning alarm system. Just assuming everybody else has a top notch alarm system, in perfect working order, is a little, well, unrealistic. Folks leave alarm systems off. They forget to activate them. They wear out and break. Or they were just never installed, in the first place.
 
Dibbs said:
And there may be some of us that don't have that alarm system. Rent, utilities, etc, expenses pile up, some folks haven't gotten around to the installation of a functioning alarm system. Just assuming everybody else has a top notch alarm system, in perfect working order, is a little, well, unrealistic. Folks leave alarm systems off. They forget to activate them. They wear out and break. Or they were just never installed, in the first place.
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Have you been broken into? Once you have I can promise you that you will have an alarm system after that. Today, the wireless systems are easy to install and take with you even if you rent. I have family that rent and have taken their system with them the last time they moved. Their is a solution to most every problem. I can promise that I have an alarm and camera system that knows what goes on and alerts me of anything moving around my house or on my property. But it took my house and my home being violated by a scumbag for me to get off my but and take home security serious.
 
And there may be some of us that don't have that alarm system. Rent, utilities, etc, expenses pile up, some folks haven't gotten around to the installation of a functioning alarm system. Just assuming everybody else has a top notch alarm system, in perfect working order, is a little, well, unrealistic. Folks leave alarm systems off. They forget to activate them. They wear out and break. Or they were just never installed, in the first place.
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I have to ask--was the question posted with the idea of arguing against any proposed solution?

If not, you must have some very specific type of solution in mind. What is it that you want to talk about?
 
Dibbs said:
And there may be some of us that don't have that alarm system. Rent, utilities, etc, expenses pile up, some folks haven't gotten around to the installation of a functioning alarm system. Just assuming everybody else has a top notch alarm system, in perfect working order, is a little, well, unrealistic. Folks leave alarm systems off. They forget to activate them. They wear out and break. Or they were just never installed, in the first place.
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Alrighty then.

Your question was one of how one "handles it", bur the real question is one of what transpires if you enter your house and there is someone inside.

There are several possibilities:
  1. Best case--he hears your entry and high-tails it out the back.
  2. Next best--you leave quickly and unharmed and call the police.
  3. Next best--he claims he entered in error; until he leaves, you are at risk.
  4. Next best, but not good at all--there is an altercation, and you prevail; remember, you were not defending your occupied home; you run up very considerable legal expenses; how things turn out is unpredictable and entirely beyond your control.
  5. Worst case, and rather likely--he comes out on top.
Does that address your issue?
 
Dibbs said:
Folks leave alarm systems off. They forget to activate them. They wear out and break. Or they were just never installed, in the first place.
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Those are all things that you can control. Are you asking for a solution that protects you from yourself?

Even the modern, relatively risk free society we live in requires one to assume a certain amount of responsibility for one’s own safety and the safety of loved ones. Some things you can do are:

1. Not relaxing into condition white until you are safely locked into your home.

2. Make proactive security measures a part of your daily routine. It doesn’t take a lot of effort to visually scan your property when you come home for signs that something is amiss.

You start by making an assessment of how an intruder might gain entry and taking some actions to mitigate the risk. Once you’ve addressed the possible points of entry and hardened them to the best of your ability and within your budget, develop a security routine. A one to two minute security sweep making sure everything is locked before you leave in the morning. It’s a good habit to get into and it’s not hard. One of the advantages that won’t seem obvious is that when you do your check before you leave, you’re getting a mental picture of how things were when you left and when you come home something out of place will be immediately noticeable when you come in.

Frankly if you dismiss the basic things one does to protect themselves, how can you expect to take more decisive action should you encounter an intruder?
 
Dibbs said:
Well, this is the obvious answer, isn't it ? But the point is, what if you have no reason to believe
there's somebody else there, ...
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Dibbs said:
.......while there may be a few people here, who return home, ready to sweep the premises for hazards, each and every single day, there are simply a lot of us, who are just coming home, to what they (perhaps inappropriately) assume is their safe haven. And sorry, but we're not circling the house, looking for broken windows, and jimmied locks.
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Dibbs said:
...We get home, at the end of a long, hard day, we're tired, and trying to wind down, and we're not at our most alert, ...
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Dibbs said:
And there may be some of us that don't have that alarm system. Rent, utilities, etc, expenses pile up, some folks haven't gotten around to the installation of a functioning alarm system. ...
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You keep repeating this same theme. Exactly what is your point?

Let's look at this from a different perspective:

  1. You come home, and there is an intruder in your home. You've taken no steps to assess whether or not the security of you home has been breached by an intruder, and you don't know he's there

  2. He is willing to do you harm.

  3. You enter your home blissfully unaware of the intruder's presence.

  4. The intruder decides to engage you.

  5. Now, you are at a significant, tactical disadvantage as a result of both your lack of situational awareness and the fact that the ensconced adversary has an advantage. So you're unlikely to have a good outcome, and there will be a high probability that you will be injured or killed.

That is the bottom line. You have a choice. You can choose to do things that will help you when returning home assess whether the security of your home has been breached and there might be an intruder present (e. g., maintain situational awareness and look for things that might indicate a breach, maintain an alarm system, etc.). Or you can choose to ignore the risk. But you can't have it both ways.

So make your choice. And if you choose not to make the effort to enhance your safety, don't complain if come home to an intruder and things don't work out for you.
 
Dibbs said:
And there may be some of us that don't have that alarm system. Rent, utilities, etc, expenses pile up, some folks haven't gotten around to the installation of a functioning alarm system. Just assuming everybody else has a top notch alarm system, in perfect working order, is a little, well, unrealistic. Folks leave alarm systems off. They forget to activate them. They wear out and break. Or they were just never installed, in the first place.
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I figure those here have more than one gun. the cost of an alarm system is about the cost of a mid-level gun so why wouldn't they have one since you can transfer equipment and service to a new location at no charge should you move. if you have an alarm you should test it monthly, a simple process, and like even battery operated smoke alarms, they let you know when there is a fault... if you forget to activate your alarm when you leave home or go to bed, well, you probably forgot to lock your doors and load your gun too, I can't help you there, that's an all your fault thing. people that smoke or vape and sometimes drink spend in a month what they could get a basic alarm system for. if you have one handgun, your next purchase should be an alarm system before you buy another gun. you sound more anti-alarm system instead of trying to get people to see their value in personal security. stop the excuses for not having one.
 
Once I did actually come home to an intruder. I was carrying. I knew he was still in there. I stayed in my vehicle, called 911, They came code 3. They were all standing outside when he came out the door carrying an arm full of stuff. Caught “red handed”

If I had noticed I was broken into before even entering but not know if they were inside or not. I would still have waited outside, called 911, told them I believed the intruders were inside.

Now this is my home in DFW where police response is usually under 3 min.

After that intrusion I now have security system and internet cameras that I can view from my iPhone.

At any of my other properties response time is close to 30 min or longer. Never had an intruder out there while I was gone or even still there. It would be obvious. But supposing I did, their vehicle would be obvious. And I would quickly disable and quickily disable it, of course still dial 911. Then block the gate with my huge tractor. They won’t be going anywhere! It would be obvious if they were still there or not. Because without a vehicle it’s one hell of a walk back to the road, and even further to town. So no one will intrude on those properties without having a vehicle. I also have a satellite security device. And the system texts me every time someone enters the gate. It also flashes a light and makes a loud buzzer inside and outside the house. They would be hard pressed.

Living in the back country middle of BFE is al huge different Stratagy then finding a intruder in your house in a major metroplex.

btw... all firearms are always secured in a hidden safe when there is no one home. At my secluded properties. I don’t keep any weapons there when I am not residing there. When I am, I take the weapons I wish to use and have while there. When I leave, all firearms leave with me.

My remote properties also have a security system, but since no internet or cell coverage at those locations. It uses a satellite security system. If I’m not there I’m notified. If I am, I’m still notified with a loud blaring alarm! I have sat phone when I am there.
 
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Dog wouldn’t be waiting on me at the window. Alarm system would have gone off and outside camera would have already sent photos of them when they entered the property before they even got to the house.
 
A lot of "what-ifs" here.

The question was "How do you handle coming home to the prospect of an intruder being inside your home, when you get there ?"

The question was NOT "how do you determine whether there is an intruder in the house", "how do you deal with an intruder in your house after you've entered", or any number of other circumstances.

If you come home and there is the PROSPECT of an intruder being inside your home when you get there, then you ACT like there's an intruder in your home.

For whatever reason, you have a strong suspicion that there is an intruder in the house. MIGHT be a cat. MIGHT be something spontaneously fell off a shelf. MIGHT be a broken window because the neighbor kid threw a baseball through it, MIGHT be ANYTHING ELSE.

BUT...for whatever reason, YOU SUSPECT YOU HAVE AN INTRUDER IN THE HOUSE.

That is the bottom line.

So the answers here should revolve around THAT. Not all the other hypothetical scenarios you could turn this question into.

******

There are a variety of concerns here that come to my mind.

1. What LEGAL justification do I have to deliberately place myself into harms way by entering my house BELIEVING there is an intruder in the house? An important question, because deliberately placing oneself in mortal danger is NOT NECESSARILY A VALID JUSTIFICATION TO USE DEADLY FORCE. If you have no other reason to enter the house (like family in danger as an example), then you may find yourself on the wrong side of a deadly force court battle.

2. Do you REALLY understand your jurisdictional laws with respect to deadly force, Castle Laws, etc?

3. What benefit is there to entering a house I believe to be occupied by an intruder? A short list of pros and cons can be made, all balanced against "it's just material property, is it worth my life, or my future well-being after a court battle?"

4. Is my response BRAVADO based on my emotional investment, or is it LOGICAL based on a realistic evaluation of the risks (immediate and future)?

******

I submit that if your entry into a suspected intruder occupied home is based on digging up ways to justify entry instead of digging up ways to stay safe and get help, you're navigating into the shoals.
 
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