dogtown tom
Member
It's a wonder how many people can't grasp the difference between safe range operation and safe practices in a retail store.It's a wonder that there's any shooting ranges with all the loaded guns out of holsters.
It's a wonder how many people can't grasp the difference between safe range operation and safe practices in a retail store.It's a wonder that there's any shooting ranges with all the loaded guns out of holsters.
Why will you not answer my question?
AGAIN, why on earth do you need to draw a loaded firearm and clear it inside a gun store?
In the OP's video.......do you think the gun store bears any liability for the negligent handling and discharge?
Bingo.Clearing inside a store aside, that is the dead horse. This accident could have happened anywhere.
Why will you not answer my question?
AGAIN, why on earth do you need to draw a loaded firearm and clear it inside a gun store?
Seriously? You've lost the plot.Maybe a store's liability policy is to clear firearms once inside in front of an employee.
Would you agree the act of clearing a loaded firearm entails greater risk than showing clear on an unloaded firearm?Maybe they have a range that requires clearing every firearm when entering and exiting the range. Maybe they have a holster maker doing custom orders. Maybe a store worker is genuinely curious about a customer's firearm and trusts them to clear it instead of walking outside to do so. Maybe they have a celebrity doing autographs inside that you had no prior knowledge of, and their opinion is no one inside can be armed.
No sir. Those are fully legitimate reasons to present an unloaded firearm to the stores employees. You can't wrap your head around the risks associated with a store allowing customers to perform their own loading unloading inside that store. A negligent discharge inside that store is fully on the store owner. An ND in his parking lot? Not as likely to be found as contributing to the negligent act.Seeing how NONE of these are legitimate reasons and anyone who does/allows one to do so is an IDIOT, according to your opinion.
My question wasn't rhetorical.Again, if your opinion is there is no reason to ever clear a firearm in a store, ever, why do you bother to ask the same rhetorical question when no answer is satisfactory, based on your opinion?
Do YOU own a gun store?As I said, we disagree. You run your store how you want.
Safe firearm handling procedures are the same worldwide..Honestly? No. It looks like this video happened outside of the US. Maybe South America would be my guess. Other countries are far less litigious than the United States in terms of personal injury, negligence lawsuits compared to we are here
A case doesn't even have to go to trial to bankrupt a small LGS.In US case law, if someone is injured it is always "someone else's" fault
Ask the plaintiffs attorney if the location is immaterial.The location is immaterial. You think somehow the dude would have been less shot if this had taken place at the range?
Seriously? You've lost the plot.
Do YOU own a gun store?
Are you an FFL?
Do you pay liability insurance?
If no, no, no..........get your FFL and open a store and start paying bills and your tune will change.
Safe firearm handling procedures are the same worldwide..
A question where no answer is satisfactory is, by definition, rhetorical.My question wasn't rhetorical.
You can't wrap your head around the risks associated with a store allowing customers to perform their own loading unloading inside that store. A negligent discharge inside that store is fully on the store owner. An ND in his parking lot? Not as likely to be found as contributing to the negligent act.
Im really kind of surprised that the insurance companies dont have a say in something like this. They rule the world and usually tell you what you can do and cant.
Ask the plaintiffs attorney if the location is immaterial.
The counter inside a gun shop is not the place to draw your loaded firearm and start fiddling with it.
You and others seem to have missed the point of this thread. Might be a good time to read John's OP.
No one mentioned putting your gun in the car.Every single instance I mentioned is one I have experienced. With instruction to clear there, not outside or put it in the car. If anyone has lost the plot, it has been yourself.
No one asked for you to care whether anyone is an FFL. I asked if you had a gun store and FFL because you wrote "You run your store how you want."....which made me question if you have any experience in the firearms industry.I am supposed to care you are an FFL...why exactly? Is your opinion about how to run a store somehow relevant to how one is run in South America (where I am guessing this incident happens) or even the other side of Texas? No. It isn't.
It doesn't matter whether the store is in Dallas, Rio de Janeiro or Tokyo........unsafe gun handling is unsafe gun handling.You asked if I thought the gun store had any liability in the ND. Liability is a legal and insurance term. Nothing about your question was related to firearms safety in different countries.
Never been to a gun show in the USA?In my worldly experience, firearms handling in other parts of the world is sorely lacking compared to the US.
Yet all your supposed "legitimate reasons" aren't really legitimate reasons are they. Thats why you think my question rhetorical.A question where no answer is satisfactory is, by definition, rhetorical.
Yet as evidenced by the OP's video and others ........its often not done safely.My entire point is there are times when clearing a firearm in a store can be done safely.
And the owner of your LGS knows which one you are?Not by every Tom, Dick, and Harry that comes in.
Yet you aren't just every Tom, Dick or Harry!If I am told no, I do my clearing business outside or not at all.
Well thank you Captain Obvious. That was mentioned several posts back.Insurance plays a big role.
Again, mentioned previously in this thread........and in Texas gun show operators do not let the attendees clear at the counter, but a police officer or safety committee member does. Any ammo in the gun when you present it?..............they keep it. Thats your penalty for showing up with a loaded gun.Have you been to a gun show in the last few years? If you have more than likely they had you clear anything you brought in. The liability insurance to hold a gun show in a convention hall, civic center, or any place that rents to the public has sway. Same thing at a range. Having shooters only load when at their firing station, bench etc is safer from a liability standpoint than just walking in with firearms loaded.
Good grief man........where in this thread have I written anything different?We're not missing the point on anything. You're the one missing the point. The point is your carry gun is not for show and tell.
Pretty much what I been writing in every post.You shouldn't be drawing your loaded handgun and fiddling it with it anywhere! Safe gun handling is safe gun handling and unsafe gun handling is unsafe gun handling. Period.
No one asked for you to care whether anyone is an FFL. I asked if you had a gun store and FFL because you wrote "You run your store how you want."....which made me question if you have any experience in the firearms industry.
And once again, you shy away from an easy question.
It doesn't matter whether the store is in Dallas, Rio de Janeiro or Tokyo........unsafe gun handling is unsafe gun handling.
Typical of your responses thus far. No one is as great/knowledgeable/trained/as good as selling pew pews to dumb dumbs as you are. I was answering another member's question. That had nothing to do with you. Yet you somehow brought it upon yourself to respond in an attempt to be insulting. *Golf clap*Well thank you Captain Obvious. That was mentioned several posts back.
And the owner of your LGS knows which one you are? Are you the only one professionally enough?
Some people have nothing better to do. And I have been guilty of that for the past couple hours. Fini. Just another pompous addition to the ignore list.no way you guys could be advocating for that, do you just like to argue?
While you may feelings of inadequacy because you are not an FFL, I assure you I don't feel one bit superior because I am.Having an FFL or not has no basis on unsafe gun handling. In a store or not. You just want to feel somehow better or superior about yourself. To answer your inane question. No I am not an FFL. An answer that has no basis in this discussion. No matter how you try to justify it.
I'm sensing a reading comprehension problem, 'cause I haven't made any claims or comments about USA vs the World in gun handling skills. I just mentioned "It doesn't matter whether the store is in Dallas, Rio de Janeiro or Tokyo........unsafe gun handling is unsafe gun handling." Yet you seem to think I'm making a claim that "their standards of gun safety" are the same. Frankly sir, what part of unsafe gun handling is unsafe gun handling do you not get? I don't care if you've fondled guns in Pyongyang or Paducah....it doesn't matter in the least.Handling in other parts of the world is entirely different than here. I have been to gun shows and gun shops in Jalalabad. Moscow. Lahore. Ibadan. You think our firearms handling is bad? Here? Because of rednecks and new owners? You would have an aneurysm in any of those places if you saw how they handled firearms. Their standards of safety are not the same. Claiming so is just outright ignorance on your part.
Just another pompous addition to the ignore list.
It's a wonder how many people can't grasp the difference between safe range operation and safe practices in a retail store.
Herrwalther believes its no big deal to draw his loaded handgun inside a gun store, using a stack of books as a "safe" backstop.So what are you arguing about?
That is a far cry from advocating everyone should clear inside whenever they want to.
Totally different set of protocols for ranges. NONE of the ranges in the Dallas/Ft Worth area would tolerate a customer walking around with a loaded firearm in his hands outside of his shooting station.
They don't.How do the 4 rules of gun safety change by location?
You want context, read the comment I was replying to.Who said anything about 'customer walking around with a loaded firearm in his hands'?
They don't.
"Location" matters in that its expected that loaded firearms are in use at a gun range. The gun counter at Cabelas? Oh heck no.
You want context, read the comment I was replying to.
If you have and still don't get it, too bad.
Who advocated that?
Assuming I do is just the same. There is a time, place, and method to clearing a firearm inside a store. If there is no posted policy, ask first. Something not done in the incident video. I treat it the same way as dry firing in a store to check a trigger. Some stores really don't want you to. So I ask. If the answer is no, I don't dry fire. Same with clearing. It really is no skin off my teeth if I am told no clearing/dry firing/inspecting by an employee.
Again, I wrote "Ask the plaintiffs attorney if the location is immaterial."Exactly.
No one.Who said anything about the gun being 'in use at cabelas gun counter?
Do you?Do you consider clearing a gun to be 'in use'?