Guns and Horses--a cautionary tale.

She's very lucky she wasn't hurt much worse.

I am an avid shooter, and an avid rider. To my great regret I don't get to do either nearly as much as I'd like. I would never fire a weapon within earshot of a group of horses, especially if someone on foot was near them as well. I won't even mention how careful I am around strange horses when someone is mounted.

You're right, you're dealing with a 1000 lbs of animal, minimum, and it has a mind of its own. My horse is pretty much bomb proof, but he's 28 yrs old and seen it all. I wouldn't freak out if some guy fired a shot near Pepper, and neither would he, but you can bet the guy would hear about how stupid it was to do so.

I'm one of those people that actually slows his car to a crawl and makes sure that horses being ridden by the side of the road are well under control, and the rider knows I'm there before I proceed, and that's just driving my sedan, not doing something like firing a weapon.

A horse is a wonderful animal, but has the potential to be extremely dangerous even when its only intent is to get away.

Tell your friend I hope she gets to feeling better, and I hope the horses are all right as well.

Thats why I don't really like horses. They are a nervous wreck.

I don't think I've ever met anyone who actually doesn't like horses before. Everyone I've ever talked to about them, even if they are afraid of them, at least liked to watch them from a distance.

Don't get me wrong Sato. I pet one along my running route, but he's on the other side of the fence. I've gone riding a few times with no problems.

They have a bit too much anxiety for me to own one though. I mean I don't really know since I'm not a horse person, but wouldn't you say they are a nervous animal? That nervousness scares me a bit.

I sure would like to have some for my wilderness adventures and hunting expeditions.

If you understand how they think, then you know how to be safe with them...this means you never turn your back on one and you are always on your guard when around them.

Lots of people get hurt when they think either all horses, or just their special horse, is tame and perfectly safe, and a pet just like a dog. No matter how well trained your horse may be, it is ALWAYS a wild animal. They are tame but not domesticated, just like house cats. Turn a dog loose in the woods and odds are very high that it will starve or be killed by another animal. Turn a horse or cat loose and it will (normally) survive. Want proof, just leave your horse in pasture for a while alone with no handling or human interaction. Before long he will start shying away from being touched. Takes less time if there are more than one horse. The second they are with other horses they switch into herd mentality.

I've seen some of the most well trained horses turn violently dangerous faster than you can blink, severely injure someone and just as quick, calm back down and back to as tame as a puppy.

Saying "My horse wouldn't hurt a flea (or my stallion can be ridden by a toddler, or whatever)." is like saying "No, that gun is not loaded, go ahead and point it at yourself, it's perfectly safe, really."

I hope your friend is okay, and that she will be more vigilant in the future. It's too easy to drop your guard, especially when you get to know your horse and bond with him/her. Everyone does it at some time or other.

Like someone else stated, she's fortunate she wasn't hurt worse or even killed. I've been knocked over a few times, stepped on a couple times, thrown quite a few times, and I gotta tell ya, it doesn't feel good.

Horses are very powerful creatures, so you gotta respect them, but they're also (most of the time) very gentle. You just gotta know how to act around them, and they can be a lotta fun, and a great tool for getting certain things done. Ours never were too afraid of gunshots, but that's cus we always did a lotta shooting, so they grew accustomed to it. Now shooting while ON a horse, that I'd imagine still spook them, I dunno, I never tried it, and I aint gonna lol.

Griz, yeah, they can be nervous by human standards.

You have to remember, darn near everything we want them to do for us goes against their natural instincts.

We want to pen them in: it's in their nature to have a large range and roam freely.

We want them to interact and get petted like dogs or cats: they want to live in a herd and take turns at being the watch animal while everyone else eats.

We want, and this is the biggie, to sit on their backs and ride comfortably: every instinct they have tells them to throw the predator off and get away.

We won't even get into how neurotic a lone horse in a field gets with no other herd animals around to watch his back while he eats, drinks, and tries to get a little rest now and again. It's no wander lone horses exhibit PTSD symptoms.

With all of that, to have an inconsiderate neighbor start popping off rounds nearby is more than we should have to ask them to put up with. As I said, as a shooter, and a horse person, I can definitely say that it is a lot easier for me to be considerate when using my firearms than it is for me to be forgiving when I have to limp back to the house and call the vet to stitch up the wire cuts my horse got because he bolted in such a situation.

Thankfully such a thing has not happened to me, but I've known people who have been through it.

As a horse owner I rail against irresponsible owners who let their animals wander into the space of others and seem to believe they have some god given right to ride where ever they please without regard for the property rights, and right of way of others.

On the other side of the coin, I really have a problem with irresponsible gun owners who think just because they live outside the city limits they can fire a weapon any place and any time the mood strikes them.

Hope no one takes offense, just me looking at both sides of the issue.

Our horses aren't afraid of gunshots. In fact, my range happens to be in a field in which we keep several horses. They are all retired race horses who do nothing but roam the fields and graze.

During the day they always stay in the upper section of the field. With my range being down in the bottom half, it allows me to go out and shoot with them still out. Been shooting down there for several years and have never had them wander around down in the line of fire. Whenever I drive down there, they know what I'm doing and they stay out of my way. When those first shots are fired, rarely do they look up and never have they freaked out over it.

Cmdr., thanks for posting this to educate others. Good observation. Glad she wasn't badly injured.

I have "gun broke" our two horses. It takes a fair amount of work to get them to trust you and unnatural noises and items. Since we ride in bear country quite a bit and carry handguns, it was only prudent we "gun broke" the horses so we knew what would happen when you fired a gun from their side or back.

People who do mounted shooting sports put cotton wool in their horse's ears just as they protect their own. So if you are contemplating "gun breaking" a horse, consider this, too.

Oro, I've seen horses who were 'gun broke', and you're right, it's a good idea, especially if you ride where yo might have to shoot from the saddle.

I had a friend who had two horses out in Colorado. He tried to get them both used to firearms. One of them, no matter what he did hated guns, and would run like a hard line Democrat if he saw one even holstered. The other never really reacted badly to gunshots right from day one. I think he could have used the second horse's head for a rest while shooting from the saddle if he wanted to.

(No he never did, and took the animal's hearing into consideration.)

Horses are like ppl some are nervous some arent. I've had horses since i was 8(20yrs). And I've worked with all kinds. The one key to remember is horses freak at new things. This is bc as a prey animal if something is out of the ordinary it is usually a clue.
Further, breed makes a difference, in general Throughbreds, arabians and other "hot " breeds are more flighty.
Clydsedales, shires, are cold breeds and are much calmer.(these are some of the largest horses in the world so they were selected for tempermant)

The big difference is acclimation and if other horses react, for example if one horse is scared but his herdmates keep eating he learns its not a prob. similarly, throughbreds a more flighty breed once acclimated to a busy track(say monmouth park, NJ) where amtrack trains run through, cars, etc. they get used to it. I fire a 22 and 45acp in my pature all the time(with a backstop) with a 22 rifle they will stand right behind me with the new horses learning from the old. with handguns(louder) they stand farther back.

The one time I had to shoot a grdhog with my 3030(outta 22) I fired it maybe 20' from them and they didn't even flinch.

wouldn't you say they are a nervous animal?

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First off, I'll qualify this by saying I was raised on a ranch, and learned to ride even before I learned to shoot (though both were big parts of my childhood). I wouldn't say horses are nervous naimls moreso than any other. What I will say is that they are MUCH more in tune with your feelings and fears than you'd ever imagine. Confidence goes a long way towards good horsemanship. Had my parents believed horses were inherently dangerous, they wouldn't have taught me to ride at such a young age (3-4). However, they did teach me to be confident and sure of myself when handling horses. I won't pretend I've never been bucked off or used poor judgement, but such incidnets were rarely the fault of the horse. If a horse is showing extreme nervousness around you, I'd suspect two things....the horse is merely mirroring your own feelings, or the horse was never properly trained to begin with. I've had many horses in my day, and while some were wilder than others, most if not all could be handled easily if you showed confidence and a general understanding of horsemanship and horse behavior.

As far as horses bolting at the sound of gunfire, again, that hasn't been my personal experience. AS a kid, I used to shoot praire dogs in a town basically behind our house...in the horse pasture. Whether I was blasting away with my .22, .243, or my SKS, the horses typically hung out right around me, more curious than frightened. I'm not saying all horse would behave similiarly, of course, but a well-broke saddlehorse isn't always the unpredictable creature some make them out to be. How they are trained and raised plays a major role in temperment, and every horse has a personality that its up to the owner to understand. Training a horse, and learning the ins and outs of their personality, certainly isn't for everyone, but if you truely want to understand horses, you've got to devote the time an effort it requires. Simply owning a horse doesn't make someone a horsemen, no more than owing a combat handgun makes someone a gunfighter.

I rode when I was a kid and was stomped, bitten, and nearly crushed against a stall wall...all by the same horse. Other horses were more amiable. Later on I worked for 18 years in thoroughbred horse racing and witnessed handlers being mule-kicked, riders thrown, etc. Horses, like people, all have different personalities. Some are goofballs, some are sweet, others aloof, and still others are just plain jerks. If you work around them you learn their personalities and know which ones to be more leery of. As mentioned elsewhere, even though domesticated they are still wild animals and all need to be treated with caution. They are beautiful to watch but you must always be in Condition Yellow.

My wife is a horse person, and she's regaled me with tales of horror during hunting season about her horses spooking and running away from gunfire. Scary stuff to see a stampede of horses.

That said, you do get people like the Cowboy Mounted Shooters who fire .45's from horseback at full gallop, which is pretty awesome to watch.

We had horses all the time I was growing up, they were work horses not "pets". We carried saddle guns when we had to get cattle into pens during the spring and when we moved them up to the grazing pastures. We also broke our own and fired rifles to train them. They get used to it.

hey vonderek, did you work in the NY/NJ area?

A few friends and I were up north shooting at our spot on state land that you can tell other people use due to the shells and debris down small valley. We turned down the road and saw a bunch of horse trailers and trucks. We didn't see any people or horses but continued down the road a half mile or so and started shooting. After a half hour or so we saw the people on horses go by and stopped our shooting and admired the horses. We weren't sure if we should continue shooting or not since we didn't want to scare the horses and didn't know if they were used to it or not.

Finally two guys on horseback approached us as we stood in the bed of the pickup and asked us what we were doing. They weren't mad or told us to stop, they were just curious as to what guns we had and just wanted to chat. One even said, "We'd give you guy some beer but we drank it all." Hah. Nice guys.

Davek1977

I have to agree with what he said more then most other posters. We had a Shetland pony when I was born. He would not hurt you UNLESS you did something stupid. (then he would put his hoof on your foot and hold it) NOT full weight. You tap him on back of knee he lets go. (still hurt when barefoot)
Used him as pillow on some warm days. He would let you know when he wanted to move/get out of my way.
When riding he would try to wonder under cloths lines,low tree branchs, rub side of house/tree. It was kinda a game with him. We didn't "Own" him. A relative won him at a county fair. They lived in town so we got him. She would come out twice a yr to ride her horse. He would come home in 5 minutes she would drag in (cursing swearing) later. She did NOT know how to handle a horse (or pony in this case)
Later I worked at a Christian horse riding camp. 23 horses I didn't ride 5 of them. (no interest) as they were small,nervous and I was/am a large guy. Then another camp where I did some riding with a staff persons personal herd. (16 horses) Rode one that even she couldn't stay on. (horse had been "trained" by its former owner. "IF a women gets on act up/cause trouble and she will quit. If a male gets on and does not quit cooperate and enjoy the ride" Called former owner and yep his wife was SCARED of horses so horse learned women will quit. (and lady staff person worked with horse before work so always had to quit too soon.)

I get tempted to get a horse every now and then. Hay burners (and not cheap hay) I also doubt I would be comfortable on a good horse nowdays. Too dang many muscles in my leg are removed to hold on properly.

Horses usually go out of their way to avoid stepping on "unusual" objects laying in their path, such as human bodies. They won't risk damaging their delicate, precious limbs when they are fleeing an area. Unless they are directly targeting and attacking you, it would be very unlikely to get stepped on or kicked. Lucky us, huh?

Wild Horses in Nevada

They breed like rabbits and are pretty much all over the place. I go shooting around wild horses all the time, they don't seem to mind at all. Years ago (when it seemed more entertaining) my SO and I would deliberately go look for them and bring apples, carrots and stuff (grass clippings) to feed them. To put it mildly, THIS IS NOT A GOOD IDEA! My SO has been stepped on, bitten, and shoved around by them as they compete to get at the treats - Even worse, one we called 'thief', would force his way into her pockets to steal the stuff. They weren't trying to hurt her, they were just very competitive against one another to get some. They have very bad manners when it comes to eating. They had no problem kicking, biting, or shoving each other. The stallion usually remained away from the action, but we had one herd's stallion that would 'defend' my So by butting in and keeping the horses in line. Interesting behavior. I was out shooting one time and didn't realize until they were practically standing over me that a couple of horses had come over to see what I was up to! I was shooting a M1A in prone, and I guess there curiouosity got the best of them. They still wouldn't let me touch them, and when they decided they'd seen enough, wandered off.

I've been stepped on, bitten, crunched against a gate, thrown, one tried to drag me across the pasture. A 90# kid cannot stop a horse that doesn't want to stop!(let go the rope!)

I still love horses. Don't own one. When I need to ride, I call my sister...she's got four.

Mark.

That's a bad deal. Horses typically do whatever they can to avoid running over people.

Kind of an unrelated story, but I can feel for getting "run over" by a horse. I used to competitively ride, and one time I was going over a jump and my stirrup snapped, causing me to flip forward (as I was hovering over the withers) and entangle my neck in the reins. I was dragged for 30 ft (hanging by my neck) and my arm was stepped on. Needless to say, horses are big ol' animals with a lot of ability to hurt someone.