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3-D Printed Gun Only Lasts 6 Shots

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Tech Ninja, Dec 3, 2012.

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  1. Neo-Luddite

    Neo-Luddite Member

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    And here comes the future....give it time and away we go.
     
  2. gkainz

    gkainz Member

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    I worked at Coors Ceramics quite a few years ago - they were making a lot of ceramic based products that were strong enough ... like armor seat pans for helicopters, exhaust manifolds, etc

    edit - oops, apparently "quote" failed ... this was in response to a post a page back where someone pondered "how about ceramics"?
     
  3. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    But what would be the benefit? It'd be heavier than carbon steel or stainless, softer, weaker and still not pass through metal detectors.

    Bronze and brass were common in those days because they're easier to work with using low tech equipment. If they were superior alloys, they wouldn't have been supplanted by steels, aluminum alloys, titanium alloys, scandium alloys, etc.

    They only printed the bare lower receiver. Everything else was off the shelf parts (AR-57, not a standard 5.56mm AR)
     
  4. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    Yeah, modern metal detectors are pretty good at finding non-ferrous metals; what is it, about 1.5-2x the size of ferrous metals for detection? A gun barrel in any size is certainly going to be large enough.

    Still wondering where anti's came up with the whole "invisible gun" thing. :)
     
  5. mgmorden

    mgmorden Member

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    I think a lot of them got it from Die Hard:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecwK3UMxoxQ

    Seriously though I was born in 81 and I remember being a really young kid (like 5 or so - which puts the time frame right) heating concerns on the local news about plastic guns and them going through metal detectors. Mostly just uninformed people jumping to conclusions and thinking a "polymer" gun means the whole thing is made of that.

    I will admit though that though I have those memories of concerns when I was a kid, I haven't heard any serious worries regarding plastic guns and metal detectors in a long time. I think the public (even the antis) know its a myth by now.
     
  6. fatcat4620

    fatcat4620 Member

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    Could you print a Glock 7 with one?
     
  7. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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  8. SSN Vet

    SSN Vet Member

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    3D printing is the modern way to prototype new designs, once you've solid modeled all the parts and assembly. You can check for interference, calculated dynamic forces, center of mass, etc... but if you want to know how it feels in your hand.... or pass it around to test with different sized hands... you still need a physical prototype.

    Also, the plastic printed part is often used to make one offs with investment casting.

    Now metal sintering 3D printers can make accurate metal samples.... but these machines are REALLY expensive.

    The AR lower was designed with Aluminum in mind... so printing it in ABS plastic without modifying the geometry was kind of pointless.

    Still... lot's of interesting things to be learned from the trial. I'm wondering if they were able to assemble the AR components without chasing the printe threads with at tap.
     
  9. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    Depends on the detector and it's sensitivity setting, but it seems that most will pick up anything larger than the button on you blue jeans.

    The courthouse in the neighboring county ditched their metal detectors; They now have a full body scanner, and make you completely empty all pockets. You're not getting anything in there, polymer or otherwise.
     
  10. bigfatdave

    bigfatdave Member

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    yeah, sure
    those scanners are more easily defeated than a metal detector, the security theater at your local courthouse is just to make the sheep feel better
     
  11. 230RN
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    gkainz said,

    That was me. One of the "ticklers" in my head (besides silicon carbide) about ceramics was the trauma plates on regular body armor. Seems like that's pretty strong stuff.

    Oh, well, it was just a thought.

    After all, look at what happened with magnets. Nowadays we have neodynium "super magnets" that you can't hardly pull apart. And if you do, they can do you injury if you get a piece of yourself between them when they clap together again.

    Terry, 230RN
     
  12. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    How do you figure? This thing picked up the little wrinkled piece of foil paper from a pack of cigarettes that was still in my shirt pocket (not the pack, just the paper)
     
  13. bigfatdave

    bigfatdave Member

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    someone really intending to do harm will use a deeper pocket
     
  14. Warp

    Warp Member

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    I would even suggest that that indicates it is NOT reality
     
  15. russ69

    russ69 Member

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    I worked in rapid prototyping for a major aerospace company. There are many ways to make parts using polymers and powdered materials using some kind of rapid prototyping process. It's not a big deal. What the story is missing, is facts. From what I could see they made a polymer AR15 lower using a desktop prototyping system. The rest of the gun was normal AR15 parts made out of the normal materials. The design was unsuccessful because the material used was not suitable for the design they used.
    The machines are great tool for their intended purpose but if you are making firearms at home, it's much easier to buy the parts you need because reinforced polymer receivers are already on the market. When I left the field, reinforced (discontinuous fibers) polymers were not suitable to most rapid prototyping processes.
     
  16. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    Yeah.....I don't think I want to be the guy to find out the hard way just how good those scanners really are.
     
  17. bigfatdave

    bigfatdave Member

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    Something of a side-track, but the scanners are worthless.
    Here's one example with links to more:
    http://tsanewsblog.com/1901/news/passenger-slips-metal-by-tsa-scanners-repeatedly/

    And they don't scan internally, so the deeper pocket is always available. Remember, someone planning a rampage in the courthouse is less afraid of testing the scanners than you are, violent criminals have a different priority set than you and I do.

    It would be trivial to "package" (ewwwww) a small derringer or NAA mini, then use it "FP45 Liberator style" to pick up better weaponry from the staff.
    Mass murderers don't care about the risks of being caught any more than they care about making it out alive, generally.

    ===

    Regarding printing the important components of a weapon, obviously it would work better if the design played to the strengths of the material, rather than copying the shape of an aluminum part.
    I can envision a laminated receiver made of thin layers printed out, then slathered with resin, add a hinge and some extremely basic fire-control parts and you have a shotgun. Work out how to get a bolt and recoil springs into the design and I bet you could make an ugly submachinegun in a low-pressure round easily.


    15 years ago, I couldn't use my phone to look up schematics or pictures for reference while I was out and about and had technical difficulty. Now I can do that easily, if I have good data service I can generally dig up a how-to video.
    The same might prove true of rapid prototyping machinery or other 3D printer tech. I know a guy who made his own CNC machine to whip up foam model plane kits, an alarmist would call it a "clandestine drone plane factory" if they wanted to sell ad space. I think that some of the articles about the printed weapons are similarly alarmist.

    But ... Printing up firearms components means that there is no "manufacturing facility" to make sure the barrels are all rifled and the serial numbers are all different.
    After all, if the Polish could make a working submachinegun during the WW2 occupation by Nazi forces, I doubt the BATFE could regulate off-hours printing of critical components by guys on nightshift at work.
    http://www.forgottenweapons.com/submachine-guns/polish-blyskawica-smg/
    (Read that article, really. Weapons manufacturing has been impossible to really control for a long time, adding 3D printing just makes it a bit harder to regulate and might allow for faster production of the harder parts)
     
  18. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    Arguably the harder parts to fabricate are fire control groups. Plenty of examples of guns with plastic components for that; FS2000, PS90, Steyr Aug, etc. The only metal parts in the fire control group of a PS90 or FS2000 are springs and pins.

    Take the FS2000, the ENTIRE receiver is plastic. Hammer, disconnector, sears (both of them) are plastic.

    Which leaves the "unprintables" list - bolt assembly, guide rods, barrel, and optics rail. The "flat rectangular" bolt would be pretty simple to make on even a non-CNC milling machine with no great skill required. The guide rods are just steel rods and springs, optic rail can be purchased commercially for cheap. Magazines are standard STANAG, easy to procure.

    Which leaves... a barrel. Those are a bit tough to make at home. :)

    While an AR-15 lower receiver printed of plastic broke after a few shots; I bet an FS2000 or PS90 receiver would last a very long time indeed. Those were designed around the material of plastic, while the AR15 was designed around the material of aluminum.

    So, maybe the 3D printers are barking up the wrong tree. Choose a suitable candidate and I bet you could print out a receiver for a modern FNH rifle in no time. (Of course, injection molding them would be easier and allow a much larger scale.)

    Yeah. Print an FS2000, including fire control group. Forget the AR-15 crap, too many modifications would be required to make that design "robust" enough with plastic.


    Easier to see the metal parts here;

    75147.jpg

    (Source: http://www.gunslot.com/pictures/fn-fs2000-xray-image)
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2012
  19. tyeo098

    tyeo098 Member

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  20. BLACKHAWKNJ

    BLACKHAWKNJ Member

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    How about something on a par with the Liberator Pistol?
     
  21. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    Yup. Which is why strict gun gontrol has always failed. One can assemble a crude but functional cartridge firing gun in a few minutes after a trip to the hardware store. It's also not that difficult (though time consuming) to completely manufacture ammunition.

    I suspect that is one of the reasons ATF doesn't try to regulate home made weapons that are muzzle loading or title I, and for personal use.

    I have built many single and double barreled muzzle loading and cartridge firing handguns. The muzzle loading guns I have built completely from scratch, the cartridge guns I used existing barrels because I do not have the equipment to rifle a barrel, and it's not legal to manufacture a smoothbore cartridge firing handgun without form 1 approval & tax.
     
  22. RedAlert

    RedAlert Member

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    Two things. Ceramics are wonderful in compression loads and not so good at tensile loads.
    A firing chamber would experience all tensile loads as the force would be pushing outwards.

    Quote: "If you sit on one, will it reproduce you butt? " I'm sure it would but why would anyone want to reproduce something so butt ugly?
     
  23. 230RN
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    Post deleted by poster
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2012
  24. Wes B

    Wes B Member

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    Why is it being billed a 3-D printed gun. It was just a printed lower :banghead:

    I'll be impressed when someone prints a receiver, bolt, action, ...
     
  25. Blackstone

    Blackstone Member

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    Isn't the lower the part that's defined as the gun though?
     
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