30 of 32 died after the cops arrived
- Thread starter Oleg Volk
- Start date
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DC3-CVN-72
Member
Post #19
R127, that is about as well put as I've herd our curent L.E.O vs. Citizen relationship explained. Well done.
R127, that is about as well put as I've herd our curent L.E.O vs. Citizen relationship explained. Well done.
Last edited:
As Oleg said, his intention wasn't to bash the LEO response, instead it is to highlight the importance of being responsible for your own safety because the police can't say "Beam me up" and be in a trouble spot at light speed.
We don't want to get to the point where the society loses all respect for it's law enforcement officers. On another board I used to frequent, a couple of British members made it clear that they had no respect for their police. They used phrases like "couldn't get a job doing anything else." One member was from Bermuda, the other in Britain. So they don't trust their law enforcement, don't trust each other with firearms, and now don't trust each other with knives. So no one gets to carry anything, and their law enforcement works with their hands tied. Not good at all.
We don't want to get to the point where the society loses all respect for it's law enforcement officers. On another board I used to frequent, a couple of British members made it clear that they had no respect for their police. They used phrases like "couldn't get a job doing anything else." One member was from Bermuda, the other in Britain. So they don't trust their law enforcement, don't trust each other with firearms, and now don't trust each other with knives. So no one gets to carry anything, and their law enforcement works with their hands tied. Not good at all.
Gun Geezer
Member
Gotta join in...
Any man worth his salt would have armed himself with the nearest baseball bat, chair, or umbrella and charged in full steam ahead.
Yeah, yeah. Armchair camando comments roll on in.
But that is EXACTLY what the old Jewish gentleman did. He used what he had (his body) to protect and defend the helpless. That's just how the greatest generation was and still is.
The old guy is dead and still has more manhood than the heavily armed fully armored folks that protected their cars whilst carnage was visited on the defenseless. How could anybody you just do nothing? I cannot understand this "follow protocol" stuff while people are dying.
Any man worth his salt would have armed himself with the nearest baseball bat, chair, or umbrella and charged in full steam ahead.
Yeah, yeah. Armchair camando comments roll on in.
But that is EXACTLY what the old Jewish gentleman did. He used what he had (his body) to protect and defend the helpless. That's just how the greatest generation was and still is.
The old guy is dead and still has more manhood than the heavily armed fully armored folks that protected their cars whilst carnage was visited on the defenseless. How could anybody you just do nothing? I cannot understand this "follow protocol" stuff while people are dying.
wheelgunslinger
Member
Protocol is what keeps officers from randomly rushing in and shooting each other, friendlies, and adding to chaos. They're there to bring order to chaos.
And, it's not like they aren't susceptible to a case of the "shakes" or jitters in the middle of a crisis that might make them do something stupid. \
I agree. It's maddening to know how many people were dying in there while they followed orders, but they don't get paid to be cowboys. Their numbers are much better used in unison.
I hate to parrot what's already been said, but this is why citizens need to be armed or at least have the opportunity to carry weapons where they go.
And, it's not like they aren't susceptible to a case of the "shakes" or jitters in the middle of a crisis that might make them do something stupid. \
I agree. It's maddening to know how many people were dying in there while they followed orders, but they don't get paid to be cowboys. Their numbers are much better used in unison.
I hate to parrot what's already been said, but this is why citizens need to be armed or at least have the opportunity to carry weapons where they go.
Im an LEO and i generally avoid the legal and political forum here because there seems to be some cop haters floating around. Im glad i clicked on this thread again today. I first saw it yesterday and i honestly thought Oleg was blaming the COPS for the deaths of those people and i was resentful that a moderator would post it. Now i see that he was referring to people protecting themselves because the police cant always be there or get there in time. I agree. I carry a gun on me all the time and i honestly dont understand with all the shootings that have taken place in the past few years why more people do not carry a gun. I cannot always be there for my own family and i hope if my wife and kids are at a Wal-mart,bank,or restaurant and some psycho goes on a rampage some citizen will take his CCW and end the situation. BTW,i cannot get my wife to carry one.
ripcurlksm
Member
thanks oleg, I have it for my signature on some of the college/music forums I frequent
Thin Black Line
Member
...and as the tower shooter was also receiving fire from civilians below armed
with their own scoped hunting rifles. (The kind of rifles called "sniper rifles"
and in common calibers considered "armor piercing" by the politicos in DC....)
xd9fan
Member
great stuff
Like I've said before....the LEO after the fact response in this country kicks a$$.
At VT there was so much after the fact response....they could have invaded Canada. 5 hours late and a millions dollars short.
And the schools will ask for more money for MORE after the fact response
when good ol' fashion CCW could have stopped the crime IN REAL TIME......but thats......power to the people.....and takes control away from LEO's
Like I've said before....the LEO after the fact response in this country kicks a$$.
At VT there was so much after the fact response....they could have invaded Canada. 5 hours late and a millions dollars short.
And the schools will ask for more money for MORE after the fact response
when good ol' fashion CCW could have stopped the crime IN REAL TIME......but thats......power to the people.....and takes control away from LEO's
dhoomonyou
Member
I hope they all sleep well at night.
stevetexas
Member
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2006
- Messages
- 67
Our boys and girls do this every day
Steve Pearson
Senior Member
Join Date: 03-19-05
Location: Texas
Posts: 129 Gotta join in...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Any man worth his salt would have armed himself with the nearest baseball bat, chair, or umbrella and charged in full steam ahead.
Yeah, yeah. Armchair commandos comments roll on in.
But that is EXACTLY what the old Jewish gentleman did. He used what he had (his body) to protect and defend the helpless. That's just how the greatest generation was and still is.
The old guy is dead and still has more manhood than the heavily armed fully armored folks that protected their cars whilst carnage was visited on the defenseless. How could anybody you just do nothing? I cannot understand this "follow protocol" stuff while people are dying.
You all who are so proud of "going home every day" should be selling furniture.
Steve Pearson
Senior Member
Join Date: 03-19-05
Location: Texas
Posts: 129 Gotta join in...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Any man worth his salt would have armed himself with the nearest baseball bat, chair, or umbrella and charged in full steam ahead.
Yeah, yeah. Armchair commandos comments roll on in.
But that is EXACTLY what the old Jewish gentleman did. He used what he had (his body) to protect and defend the helpless. That's just how the greatest generation was and still is.
The old guy is dead and still has more manhood than the heavily armed fully armored folks that protected their cars whilst carnage was visited on the defenseless. How could anybody you just do nothing? I cannot understand this "follow protocol" stuff while people are dying.
You all who are so proud of "going home every day" should be selling furniture.
ripcurlksm
Member
Olegg, I had your poster as my sig and it raised all kinds of hell with the college kids. there is a thread nearing 4 pages long on "Gun Control" because of it. 2 pro gun, 4 on the fence and 20 anti... we're doing good tho!
stevetexas
Member
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2006
- Messages
- 67
I have noticed that some of my posts have been deleted....I wonder about that? In what way was I not High Road enough?
stevetexas
Member
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2006
- Messages
- 67
Just read this you stinking soldier....it's written by Kipling...
http://www.poetryloverspage.com/poets/kipling/tommy.html
Tommy
I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.
I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.
Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.
We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind",
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind.
You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!
http://www.poetryloverspage.com/poets/kipling/tommy.html
Tommy
I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.
I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.
Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.
We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind",
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind.
You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!
My take wasn't cop bashing, but that people need to realize the police cannot always be there to protect us, no matter how hard the Officers may try. In fact I find it hypocritical that the people who demand law enforcement save them are sometimes the very people that will not take responsibility for their own safety. As in "Well I would never pick up a gun to shoot someone in self defense, but I demand that you do so for me!" Sickening.
stevetexas
Member
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2006
- Messages
- 67
And as long as I am sending myself to hell here is another one...
IF
If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too:
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or, being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise;
If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim,
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same:.
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build'em up with worn-out tools;
If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings,
And never breathe a word about your loss:
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!"
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much:
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!
IF
If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too:
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or, being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise;
If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim,
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same:.
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build'em up with worn-out tools;
If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings,
And never breathe a word about your loss:
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!"
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much:
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!
stevetexas
Member
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2006
- Messages
- 67
Mandalay
Poem lyrics of Mandalay by Rudyard Kipling.
By the old Moulmein Pagoda, lookin' eastward to the sea,
There's a Burma girl a-settin', and I know she thinks o' me;
For the wind is in the palm-trees, and the temple-bells they say:
"Come you back, you British soldier; come you back to Mandalay!"
Come you back to Mandalay,
Where the old Flotilla lay:
Can't you 'ear their paddles chunkin' from Rangoon to Mandalay?
On the road to Mandalay,
Where the flyin'-fishes play,
An' the dawn comes up like thunder outer China 'crost the Bay!
'Er petticoat was yaller an' 'er little cap was green,
An' 'er name was Supi-yaw-lat -- jes' the same as Theebaw's Queen,
An' I seed her first a-smokin' of a whackin' white cheroot,
An' a-wastin' Christian kisses on an 'eathen idol's foot:
Bloomin' idol made o'mud --
Wot they called the Great Gawd Budd --
Plucky lot she cared for idols when I kissed 'er where she stud!
On the road to Mandalay...
When the mist was on the rice-fields an' the sun was droppin' slow,
She'd git 'er little banjo an' she'd sing "Kulla-lo-lo!"
With 'er arm upon my shoulder an' 'er cheek agin' my cheek
We useter watch the steamers an' the "hathis" pilin' teak.
Elephints a-pilin' teak
In the sludgy, squdgy creek,
Where the silence 'ung that 'eavy you was 'arf afraid to speak!
On the road to Mandalay...
But that's all shove be'ind me -- long ago an' fur away,
An' there ain't no 'busses runnin' from the Bank to Mandalay;
An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells:
"If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else."
No! you won't 'eed nothin' else
But them spicy garlic smells,
An' the sunshine an' the palm-trees an' the tinkly temple-bells;
On the road to Mandalay...
I am sick o' wastin' leather on these gritty pavin'-stones,
An' the blasted Henglish drizzle wakes the fever in my bones;
Tho' I walks with fifty 'ousemaids outer Chelsea to the Strand,
An' they talks a lot o' lovin', but wot do they understand?
Beefy face an' grubby 'and --
Law! wot do they understand?
I've a neater, sweeter maiden in a cleaner, greener land!
On the road to Mandalay...
Ship me somewheres east of Suez, where the best is like the worst,
Where there aren't no Ten Commandments an' a man can raise a thirst;
For the temple-bells are callin', an' it's there that I would be --
By the old Moulmein Pagoda, looking lazy at the sea;
On the road to Mandalay,
Where the old Flotilla lay,
With our sick beneath the awnings when we went to Mandalay!
On the road to Mandalay,
Where the flyin'-fishes play,
An' the dawn comes up like thunder outer China 'crost the Bay!
nd one last one, as I go down down to lay...
Poem lyrics of Mandalay by Rudyard Kipling.
By the old Moulmein Pagoda, lookin' eastward to the sea,
There's a Burma girl a-settin', and I know she thinks o' me;
For the wind is in the palm-trees, and the temple-bells they say:
"Come you back, you British soldier; come you back to Mandalay!"
Come you back to Mandalay,
Where the old Flotilla lay:
Can't you 'ear their paddles chunkin' from Rangoon to Mandalay?
On the road to Mandalay,
Where the flyin'-fishes play,
An' the dawn comes up like thunder outer China 'crost the Bay!
'Er petticoat was yaller an' 'er little cap was green,
An' 'er name was Supi-yaw-lat -- jes' the same as Theebaw's Queen,
An' I seed her first a-smokin' of a whackin' white cheroot,
An' a-wastin' Christian kisses on an 'eathen idol's foot:
Bloomin' idol made o'mud --
Wot they called the Great Gawd Budd --
Plucky lot she cared for idols when I kissed 'er where she stud!
On the road to Mandalay...
When the mist was on the rice-fields an' the sun was droppin' slow,
She'd git 'er little banjo an' she'd sing "Kulla-lo-lo!"
With 'er arm upon my shoulder an' 'er cheek agin' my cheek
We useter watch the steamers an' the "hathis" pilin' teak.
Elephints a-pilin' teak
In the sludgy, squdgy creek,
Where the silence 'ung that 'eavy you was 'arf afraid to speak!
On the road to Mandalay...
But that's all shove be'ind me -- long ago an' fur away,
An' there ain't no 'busses runnin' from the Bank to Mandalay;
An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells:
"If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else."
No! you won't 'eed nothin' else
But them spicy garlic smells,
An' the sunshine an' the palm-trees an' the tinkly temple-bells;
On the road to Mandalay...
I am sick o' wastin' leather on these gritty pavin'-stones,
An' the blasted Henglish drizzle wakes the fever in my bones;
Tho' I walks with fifty 'ousemaids outer Chelsea to the Strand,
An' they talks a lot o' lovin', but wot do they understand?
Beefy face an' grubby 'and --
Law! wot do they understand?
I've a neater, sweeter maiden in a cleaner, greener land!
On the road to Mandalay...
Ship me somewheres east of Suez, where the best is like the worst,
Where there aren't no Ten Commandments an' a man can raise a thirst;
For the temple-bells are callin', an' it's there that I would be --
By the old Moulmein Pagoda, looking lazy at the sea;
On the road to Mandalay,
Where the old Flotilla lay,
With our sick beneath the awnings when we went to Mandalay!
On the road to Mandalay,
Where the flyin'-fishes play,
An' the dawn comes up like thunder outer China 'crost the Bay!
nd one last one, as I go down down to lay...
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
In regard to the poster, ALL 32 victims died after police arrived on campus. The VT Police Department is on campus.
I realize Oleg meant to show that the last 30 died after Cho shot and killed the first two and police responded to that crime scene. However, the second crime scene happened across campus as a separate event. What would be interesting to know is how many died after 911 was called for the second event. We know 911 was called early. We know campus and city police were alerted to the first incident and police activity on campus had significantly increased. Ideally, the second event should have been very short with a very fast response by police. They did respond quickly. The camera phone video captured something like 27 gunshots (according to the talking heads on TV) and police are seen in the video as already being on scene at the building.
Oleg, I think your poster is a good idea, just inaccurate. I would be willing to bet that most did die after police arrived on scene at the second shooting. It would still be a powerful poster. Depending on what turns up, it may be that police were on scene for a majority of the shots being fired as well. In both cases, they were on scene, but still unable to effectively stop the shooting.
By similar circumstances, everybody shot in the North Hollywood bank robbery were shot AFTER police arrived on scene.
And I agree, you aren't bashing cops, just pointing out that things happen that are beyond their control.
I realize Oleg meant to show that the last 30 died after Cho shot and killed the first two and police responded to that crime scene. However, the second crime scene happened across campus as a separate event. What would be interesting to know is how many died after 911 was called for the second event. We know 911 was called early. We know campus and city police were alerted to the first incident and police activity on campus had significantly increased. Ideally, the second event should have been very short with a very fast response by police. They did respond quickly. The camera phone video captured something like 27 gunshots (according to the talking heads on TV) and police are seen in the video as already being on scene at the building.
Oleg, I think your poster is a good idea, just inaccurate. I would be willing to bet that most did die after police arrived on scene at the second shooting. It would still be a powerful poster. Depending on what turns up, it may be that police were on scene for a majority of the shots being fired as well. In both cases, they were on scene, but still unable to effectively stop the shooting.
By similar circumstances, everybody shot in the North Hollywood bank robbery were shot AFTER police arrived on scene.
And I agree, you aren't bashing cops, just pointing out that things happen that are beyond their control.
Modifications on the basic theme could include thoughts along the lines of:
"The first 2 died before the police knew there was a problem, while the remaining 30 died while the police worked to figure out how to deal with the problem."
"Even having the police right outside the doors can't save you if the killer is already inside the doors."
Either of these would be factually accurate, and would place the blame and emphasis on the circumstances, and not the police.
I'd also thought of something along the lines of "while the police prepared to act, the killer acted" but I'm having a hard figuring out how to say that without it being construed as bashing, which would only detract from the message.
"The first 2 died before the police knew there was a problem, while the remaining 30 died while the police worked to figure out how to deal with the problem."
"Even having the police right outside the doors can't save you if the killer is already inside the doors."
Either of these would be factually accurate, and would place the blame and emphasis on the circumstances, and not the police.
I'd also thought of something along the lines of "while the police prepared to act, the killer acted" but I'm having a hard figuring out how to say that without it being construed as bashing, which would only detract from the message.
FMJMIKE
Member
I have learned from personal experience that you cannot rely on the police to defend my life. I once begged a Sheriff to help me when a local crazy man was threatening me. The crazy man had put a pipe bomb in my yard and had fired bullets at me when I drove by his house. The Sheriff told me he could not protect me. He could only investigate a crime after it had been commited.
I took it upon myself at that time to arm myself and to take things into my own hands. I finally had to confront this bully with a firearm to make him leave me alone (Bully was armed all the time). This is a much more involved story than I can relate here. But it boils down to this...... You can't count on the police. I have lost a lot of respect for law enforcement officials over the years.
The Massacre at Va. Tech has only hardened my opinion of the Police. Those poor kids were killed because the police were pursuing the boyfriend. They didn't think it was necessary to close the campus after the first murders. Well............Their decision cost us the lives of 30 VT students and faculty. I am tired of hearing how they can't enter a building until it is secured.....Until they determine whats going on..........Sure... Just wait until the murderer runs out of bullets!!!
The more I think about it the more I am coming to the conclusion that there should be CCW permits issued to the students. They may ban guns but they will have to fight to take mine. Heck......if they won't risk their lives to save innocent college kids maybe I don't have anything to worry about.
I took it upon myself at that time to arm myself and to take things into my own hands. I finally had to confront this bully with a firearm to make him leave me alone (Bully was armed all the time). This is a much more involved story than I can relate here. But it boils down to this...... You can't count on the police. I have lost a lot of respect for law enforcement officials over the years.
The Massacre at Va. Tech has only hardened my opinion of the Police. Those poor kids were killed because the police were pursuing the boyfriend. They didn't think it was necessary to close the campus after the first murders. Well............Their decision cost us the lives of 30 VT students and faculty. I am tired of hearing how they can't enter a building until it is secured.....Until they determine whats going on..........Sure... Just wait until the murderer runs out of bullets!!!
The more I think about it the more I am coming to the conclusion that there should be CCW permits issued to the students. They may ban guns but they will have to fight to take mine. Heck......if they won't risk their lives to save innocent college kids maybe I don't have anything to worry about.
Imaginos
Member
Well Done Oleg
Very nice work.
Has anyone else noticed that this is rapidly becoming whacko self-destruction week? Waco, Oklahoma City, Columbine, Virginia Tech, on and on and on.
Very nice work.
Has anyone else noticed that this is rapidly becoming whacko self-destruction week? Waco, Oklahoma City, Columbine, Virginia Tech, on and on and on.
gotarheels03
Member
I live in a family of cops, and I don't see this as "cop bashing" He's stating a fact in order to emphasize the need to take responsibility for your own protection. The cops were unable to save VT students. Thats a fact and I don't see any disrespect in pointing it out.
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