This guy took a larger caliber round to the chest and returned fire, then drove off a ways.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=92b_1380838953
There is a thread on it right now.
But yea, most folks will lose a lot of interest if shot with anything.
.32 for within a room defense?
- Thread starter el Godfather
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This guy took a larger caliber round to the chest and returned fire, then drove off a ways.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=92b_1380838953
There is a thread on it right now.
But yea, most folks will lose a lot of interest if shot with anything.
browningguy
Member
I'm perfectly happy with people using .32 is they know how to shoot it. My wife has rheumatoid arthritis and really can't practice with anything heavier so it's what she uses. Personally I keep 9mm or .45 close to hand but that's just me.
MedWheeler
Member
Bad guys shot by cops are far more likely not to cease to be a threat than bad guys shot by would-be victims. This is because bad guys shot (or shot at) by would-be victims do not expect said shooters to pursue and try to apprehend them if they turn tail and flee. Cops will, and the bad guys know that.
This is why I don't do the general comparisons between law-enforcement shootings and those committed by armed, non-LE defenders.
This is why I don't do the general comparisons between law-enforcement shootings and those committed by armed, non-LE defenders.
First you ask:
If you already know the answer to your satisfaction, what is the point in asking? And if you are genuinely interested in letting other people give input and teach you, why not just let them, rather than answering the question yourself?
I'll echo those who have already mentioned that with the crop of teeny .380s and now even 9mm's, I just don't see the point of a .32acp for defensive purposes unless, as has been mentioned, someone has a physical/medical condition that would stop them from effectively using a more powerful round. (Edit to add: many people simply shoot much better with it. If that's the case, then by all means, go for it.)
Now, for target shooting, there are some darned sweet .32acp handguns out there. I'm sure it COULD work for HD/SD at the distances you're talking about, but my Ruger LCP has more punch, with little/no weight or size penalty.
Then you answer your own question:
If you already know the answer to your satisfaction, what is the point in asking? And if you are genuinely interested in letting other people give input and teach you, why not just let them, rather than answering the question yourself?
I'll echo those who have already mentioned that with the crop of teeny .380s and now even 9mm's, I just don't see the point of a .32acp for defensive purposes unless, as has been mentioned, someone has a physical/medical condition that would stop them from effectively using a more powerful round. (Edit to add: many people simply shoot much better with it. If that's the case, then by all means, go for it.)
Now, for target shooting, there are some darned sweet .32acp handguns out there. I'm sure it COULD work for HD/SD at the distances you're talking about, but my Ruger LCP has more punch, with little/no weight or size penalty.
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orionengnr
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If, for some reason, you are limited to a .32, then use it.
If you are imposing that limitation upon yourself....well, that is your choice.
As an earlier poster said, it is better than stern words. But in the continuum of available handgun rounds, it is very close to the bottom...and since there are so many better choices out there, my question is...why?
If you are imposing that limitation upon yourself....well, that is your choice.
As an earlier poster said, it is better than stern words. But in the continuum of available handgun rounds, it is very close to the bottom...and since there are so many better choices out there, my question is...why?
usp9
Member
I was referring to;
HK 4, P7K3
several Colt pocket models
Walther PPK, PP, PPK/S, and others
Sphinx AT-32
Several Llamas
CZ83, CZ27, CZ70
Sig P230
Savage
Several Beretta models
Seecamp
Several Astras
And many others.
These are great guns, some of which have been around for many decades.
My personal favorite.
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Vodoun da Vinci
Member
I'm a .32 ACP lover because I can hit with it like I cannot hit with anything larger with more recoil. I am confident with my .32 - less so with my 9mm or .45. I'll say again - is a .45 likely to be a better one shot stopper? (if such a thing exists in a gun fight) I'd have to say yes, yes it is. But I am confident with my .32's and that is *the most* important thing to have in a fight.
I keep hearing "there are more powerful guns in the same size" and this is true - they also kick and flash a lot more. It's not an "all things being equal" type equation. Bigger more powerful calibers get progressively harder on the shooter. I know some folks feel that a subcompact 9mm or .45 has comparatively light recoil but my Wife has given her Colt Officers ACP .45 up for a Colt 1903 Model M because she can go to the range and point shoot 200 rounds in a session and be confident. Not so with her .45...it simply was her choice 20 years ago and now it is too much gun no matter how much she practices. She hits better, faster with her .32 ACP and can rack the slide and change mags and feels very good with it.
Bigger is better to a degree but multiple, rapid hits with confidence to vital areas of the target is the fight stopper. We have recently seen 2 people killed outright with .22 caliber pistols fired by amateurs here locally. Not wounded to walk away - dropped in their tracks with one shot! And not to the head, not a lucky shot. One had the round pierce both lungs, the aorta, and lodge in the spine! Incapacitated. Dropped like a rock.
I believe folks can do the same with a lot of practice and a .32 ACP. Better to have a .45 if you can hit with it. I have plenty of experience and more than a few pistols to choose from. I choose my .32 ACP. Others will shake their heads and disagree and that's OK too. We should all use what we can make the most use of and cease with this concept that bigger is the only viable choice for everyone.
To the point that .32 pocket pistols are "unreliable" is not true in our case. We have a couple thousand rounds thru our 2 1903 Colts with all kinds of ammo including some few handloads now. 6 mags for 2 guns and no one FTF, FTE or malfunction of any kind. I can empty mine in less than 3 seconds at 21' and every round is center mass upper chest between the armpits.
VooDoo
I keep hearing "there are more powerful guns in the same size" and this is true - they also kick and flash a lot more. It's not an "all things being equal" type equation. Bigger more powerful calibers get progressively harder on the shooter. I know some folks feel that a subcompact 9mm or .45 has comparatively light recoil but my Wife has given her Colt Officers ACP .45 up for a Colt 1903 Model M because she can go to the range and point shoot 200 rounds in a session and be confident. Not so with her .45...it simply was her choice 20 years ago and now it is too much gun no matter how much she practices. She hits better, faster with her .32 ACP and can rack the slide and change mags and feels very good with it.
Bigger is better to a degree but multiple, rapid hits with confidence to vital areas of the target is the fight stopper. We have recently seen 2 people killed outright with .22 caliber pistols fired by amateurs here locally. Not wounded to walk away - dropped in their tracks with one shot! And not to the head, not a lucky shot. One had the round pierce both lungs, the aorta, and lodge in the spine! Incapacitated. Dropped like a rock.
I believe folks can do the same with a lot of practice and a .32 ACP. Better to have a .45 if you can hit with it. I have plenty of experience and more than a few pistols to choose from. I choose my .32 ACP. Others will shake their heads and disagree and that's OK too. We should all use what we can make the most use of and cease with this concept that bigger is the only viable choice for everyone.
To the point that .32 pocket pistols are "unreliable" is not true in our case. We have a couple thousand rounds thru our 2 1903 Colts with all kinds of ammo including some few handloads now. 6 mags for 2 guns and no one FTF, FTE or malfunction of any kind. I can empty mine in less than 3 seconds at 21' and every round is center mass upper chest between the armpits.
VooDoo
OptimusPrime
Member
To the OP's question: yes it can be sufficient, but it's not for me. I prefer more mass to my bullets, like 158 grains. Use whatever works for you.
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
Accuracy is one aspect of shot placement. Sufficient penetration without deflection is another. If my accuracy is perfect but the bullet deflects off a rib, results may vary. That is one aspect of .32ACP that would concern me.
bubba in ca
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Not many 10 yard criminals. Most are smart enough to get within 10 feet. Be prepared to keep shooting as the guy tackles you.
If you are going for a .32, get a full sized one, not a midget like the tomcat. I had one and it was no easier to conceal than a regular .380 or 9 mak and the most awkward gun I have ever had. Personally, closeup I`d take a bearcat or a hunting knife over a midget gun.
On average, any handgun you use will need 2 good shots to stop somebody who is at all motivated. At bad breath distance I`d opt for a bigger bullet.
If you are going for a .32, get a full sized one, not a midget like the tomcat. I had one and it was no easier to conceal than a regular .380 or 9 mak and the most awkward gun I have ever had. Personally, closeup I`d take a bearcat or a hunting knife over a midget gun.
On average, any handgun you use will need 2 good shots to stop somebody who is at all motivated. At bad breath distance I`d opt for a bigger bullet.
OP
OP
el Godfather
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Background to the question is best understood with the following question:
When trying to conceal a small and a light weight pistol while going about your day (out of your home), are the .32acps that we have have sufficient power to rely in close range- or is it time to either sell our .32s or just keep them is range/collectibles relics?
Regular Joe
Member
You guyz who post your proud targets, or tell us about keeping your shots COM or whatever are absolutely in another universe.
We're talking about a life or death struggle situation here. The bad guy isn't going to stand there like a big paper target and wait until you're satisfied that you've delivered "2 to the heart and one to the head".
The real deal is that your adversary will close that "10 yard" distance in just about ONE second, and you're going to be doing all you can just to keep your gun in any kind of firing mode to hit him at all.
To your benefit, he does know that you're shooting, and he has no idea what caliber or how bad you're hurting him. Neither do you know that, until/unless he stops the attack.
My "little gun" is an LCP. I've fired it enough, clean and dirty, with several ammo types to trust that it will function when I really need it. That's about as small as a gun can get, and still be reliable.
There is a threshold that the .32 does NOT meet. .380 isn't really there yet either, but it's closer. That threshold comes with bigger calibers, going faster than even .380 can reach. It comes in at about 400 ft./lbs. of energy, and with decent bullet design, there isn't a lot of difference out to around 700 ft./lbs.
If I didn't already have a Glock 19 for my "room defense" gun, I might opt for a 26. If I wasn't already totally vested in 9mm, I might opt for the Glock 36.
Bottom line is that NO, a .32 is by no means "enough".
We're talking about a life or death struggle situation here. The bad guy isn't going to stand there like a big paper target and wait until you're satisfied that you've delivered "2 to the heart and one to the head".
The real deal is that your adversary will close that "10 yard" distance in just about ONE second, and you're going to be doing all you can just to keep your gun in any kind of firing mode to hit him at all.
To your benefit, he does know that you're shooting, and he has no idea what caliber or how bad you're hurting him. Neither do you know that, until/unless he stops the attack.
My "little gun" is an LCP. I've fired it enough, clean and dirty, with several ammo types to trust that it will function when I really need it. That's about as small as a gun can get, and still be reliable.
There is a threshold that the .32 does NOT meet. .380 isn't really there yet either, but it's closer. That threshold comes with bigger calibers, going faster than even .380 can reach. It comes in at about 400 ft./lbs. of energy, and with decent bullet design, there isn't a lot of difference out to around 700 ft./lbs.
If I didn't already have a Glock 19 for my "room defense" gun, I might opt for a 26. If I wasn't already totally vested in 9mm, I might opt for the Glock 36.
Bottom line is that NO, a .32 is by no means "enough".
OP
OP
el Godfather
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400 ft-lbs --- how many 9mm factory loads get you that.
peacemaker45
Member
You don't? Maybe you've never seen a war movie? Determined attackers can charge machine gun nests and still live long enough to take out the attackees.
Now probably, if your turn ever comes, your attacker won't be Medal of Honor material, but he may have pharmaceutical enhancements, or just be plain old nuts. Most people wouldn't count on full 9MM or .45 ACP to reliably provide one shot stops, let alone .32 ACP.
Now, it's a darn sight better than a fist, a stick, or a pocket knife, but it's also a darn sight poorer choice than any proper caliber.
Are there situations that I carry a 32? Yes, there are. But, I do so with my eyes open about the guns's capabilities. I know I'm undergunned, but I'm prepared to make the best of it.
peacemaker45
Member
I will add that I prefer gun in calibers that are appropriate to their size. I don't like micro nines, or mini 45s. My full size steel gun is a .45. My lightweight compact is a 9 (well, 38 Super, actually, but that has more to do with platform than performance. It doesn't do anything a hot 9 won't, except feed reliably in a longer action gun.) My pocket pistol is a .32.
There are times when a pocket pistol is all you can carry. 90 degrees and going for a run? Yeah, it's gonna suck trying to hide a 1911 or G21 in your running shorts. Grab the 32. Most other times, though, you can do better if you want to.
There are times when a pocket pistol is all you can carry. 90 degrees and going for a run? Yeah, it's gonna suck trying to hide a 1911 or G21 in your running shorts. Grab the 32. Most other times, though, you can do better if you want to.
usp9
Member
The human body still reacts to having holes punched in it and organs injured. We should all carry a gun we're competent with, and as large and powerful a gun as fits our daily needs. Sometimes that may be a .460 and sometimes it may be a .32. Even the lowly .22 has stopped it's share of bad guys, and a few good ones too. All firearms are lethal.
Sometimes concealment is the most important consideration.
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Walt Sherrill
Member
MedWheeler said:
And you know this... how?
The assumption is that you HIT the target -- easier said than done with a moving target (which doesn't wait for you, like a paper target.) Most often, when you read of attacks, it comes quickly, with little warning, and often from behind or the side. It may take longer to get your weapon out than you think... Home invasions are a little different, and they CAN (not WILL) give you a bit more time to get ready.
Some bad guys have been shot before, know what it feels like, and will keep on coming. Others will duck and run with the first shot fired. No two bad guys are really alike.
The scenario presented above doesn't address whether the bad guy is rational, on drugs, is desperate, etc.
The real world doesn't look the way you describe it... Even a .45 might not be enough with SOME bad guys.
And then, there's the other scenario -- which is arguably more likely to happen in many places where readers here live: a small group of dogs decide to make you lunch. We've had a number of dog attacks in this town over the past year (and we do have leash laws, etc.), with several people badly hurt.
:banghead: So in your universe you miss and win???????????????
I'll tell you who lives in an alternate universe people who think that any shot that doesn't hit CNS is going to guarentee that Mr. BG isn't going to have 15 to 30 seconds to do what his still functioning brain wants.
Bluerock Brimley
Member
......I think I agree with this last statement---too many negatives to know for sure
i.e. a hit that's NOT COM may still be either physically or psychologically incapacitating.????
32 was good 32 years ago, now with armed more knowledgeable perps, "many who may have served , and have been unable to find work for 5 years. You really should have something at least as powerful as the guy breaking in. No disparity toward the military, but everyone has to eat, and there are no jobs for vets who did grunt work. After a while you end up with a depressed well trained guy who can't even find a job flipping burgers. It's the state of affaires our president has gotten us in. Bad guys know guns as well as good guys do, so get yourself a 15 round 9mm, "at least". Or you may find yourself out gunned with no place to run to.
Black Butte
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The .32 ACP makes home invaders angry and may succeed only in getting you return fire.
Black Butte
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See this story/video, for example, in which the perp receives a fatal gunshot wound but keeps firing like nothing happened.
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2013/10/oregon_state_police_video_capt.html
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2013/10/oregon_state_police_video_capt.html
Vodoun da Vinci
Member
If I shoot a guy with my .32 4 times he'll be contemptuous and angry that I shot him? I can pretty much bet that if I shoot him with my .45 and don't kill him, he'll be just as upset.
God forbid I ever have to shoot to defend myself....but if I do I'll be shooting until the threat drops or he drops me.
This thread is now getting plain silly and abusive due to chest thumpers who can't get it that there are alternatives (viable ones) to the "bigger and bigger and bigger is better and still not enough" mentality.
I take my leave of this thread now...it's just not worth reading. I have heard all this stuff a million times already and am apparently too stupid to put my .32's away and keep only my .45 to hand.
VooDoo
God forbid I ever have to shoot to defend myself....but if I do I'll be shooting until the threat drops or he drops me.
This thread is now getting plain silly and abusive due to chest thumpers who can't get it that there are alternatives (viable ones) to the "bigger and bigger and bigger is better and still not enough" mentality.
I take my leave of this thread now...it's just not worth reading. I have heard all this stuff a million times already and am apparently too stupid to put my .32's away and keep only my .45 to hand.
VooDoo
Go with it
GODFATHER,
I have used a .32ACP as my room defense gun when traveling and that is what I had at hand. I did not lose sleep over it.
If given a choice, I would rather a mid size 9m.m. with a light attached and an extended magazine, but you may not always have a choice.
If I were going to use a .32ACP as a home defense gun, I would:
1. Pick the gun that is the most reliable and controlable. If it does not fire and you miss, it will not stop a bad guy. A miss by a .45ACP will be just as ineffective.
2. Pick the most effective ammo it can take.
My BERETTA 82 can shoot any ammo except WINCHESTER White Box ammo which has a weird, flat tip. It fires FEDERAL Hydra Shok ammo 100%, which I think is the most effective. Most guns in this caliber are not 100% reliable feeders with Hydra Shok.
My fall back load is COR BON Powerball which not only feeds 100%, but should expand and cannot clog the hollow point.
I have a COLT 1903 Pocket Hammerless and it is just great to shoot. I will not shoot Hydra Shok 100%, so I would feed it with Powerball or WINCHESTER Silvertip if I used it for home defense, it has fed 100% with both types of ammo. It has the advantage of mild recoil, good accuracy and is very controlable.
3. Practice, practice, practice.
I do not mean just shoot at targets. Try reloading and jam clearing drills. If you conceal carry, try drawing and firing.
Also, consider some training by a professional who will get you to shoot at something besides a non-moving, hanging target.
You may have to fire through a doorway while trying to conceal yourself or shoot from a prone position after being knocked down. You never know!
The most important thing is to be confident in what you shoot and hit your target.
Jim
GODFATHER,
I have used a .32ACP as my room defense gun when traveling and that is what I had at hand. I did not lose sleep over it.
If given a choice, I would rather a mid size 9m.m. with a light attached and an extended magazine, but you may not always have a choice.
If I were going to use a .32ACP as a home defense gun, I would:
1. Pick the gun that is the most reliable and controlable. If it does not fire and you miss, it will not stop a bad guy. A miss by a .45ACP will be just as ineffective.
2. Pick the most effective ammo it can take.
My BERETTA 82 can shoot any ammo except WINCHESTER White Box ammo which has a weird, flat tip. It fires FEDERAL Hydra Shok ammo 100%, which I think is the most effective. Most guns in this caliber are not 100% reliable feeders with Hydra Shok.
My fall back load is COR BON Powerball which not only feeds 100%, but should expand and cannot clog the hollow point.
I have a COLT 1903 Pocket Hammerless and it is just great to shoot. I will not shoot Hydra Shok 100%, so I would feed it with Powerball or WINCHESTER Silvertip if I used it for home defense, it has fed 100% with both types of ammo. It has the advantage of mild recoil, good accuracy and is very controlable.
3. Practice, practice, practice.
I do not mean just shoot at targets. Try reloading and jam clearing drills. If you conceal carry, try drawing and firing.
Also, consider some training by a professional who will get you to shoot at something besides a non-moving, hanging target.
You may have to fire through a doorway while trying to conceal yourself or shoot from a prone position after being knocked down. You never know!
The most important thing is to be confident in what you shoot and hit your target.
Jim
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