.32 for within a room defense?

[C0untZer0]

32 was good 32 years ago, now with armed more knowledgeable perps, "many who may have served , and have been unable to find work for 5 years. You really should have something at least as powerful as the guy breaking in. No disparity toward the military, but everyone has to eat, and there are no jobs for vets who did grunt work. After a while you end up with a depressed well trained guy who can't even find a job flipping burgers.

Knowledge doesn't stop a bullet and I don't think human physiology has changed that much in 32 years, that if 32 ACP was working 32 years ago, it doesn't work anymore.

Is there a chart that maps out bullet strength according to what type of attacker you might be facing? Like a .25 ACP if you're facing Pee Wee Herman, 10mm if it's an Army Ranger? I'd hate to shoot a home invader with 9mm and have him turn out to be former Marine Force Recon which calls for at least .45 +P

 

[gym]

You 32 slingers did see the video that is on one of the posts where the deputy hit the guy in the chest, and he still reloaded fired again and jumped in his car only to die a half mile down the road.
There is a good reason why you want to shoot someone with a high caliber bullet. It's called surviving the fight. You are going to have to hit that guy 4 or 5 times with a 32, unless you are the Marshall form "Justified", the TV show. Unless you are that good that you can put a couple rounds in his heart or a head shot, why would you gamble with a light caliber weapon.
That first shot is the one that you may be lucky enough to get off first, don't you want to make sure he's at least slowed down for the second or third, that will probably be needed.
Let alone if there are two guys with Glocks coming at you, it's just self deluding to think you will out shoot superior firearms, and numbers with a 32 caliber pistol or revolver.
You have a choice here why make that one. There is nothing to prove here other than survival, and a 9, 40, 45, 12 gauge 223, or several choices are much better than a 32.

 

[C0untZer0]

I did see the video - it has been posted in this thread 3 times:



http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=9147940&postcount=14

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=9148171&postcount=26

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=9149120&postcount=48

 

[JERRY]

it was an Oregon trooper, not a deputy sheriff. he used a .40cal to defend himself.

one solid chest hit killed the criminal attacker, after he ran back to his car and drove a mile down the interstate.

so theres an example of how even a larger caliber doesn't always do it.

if you poo poo on a .32acp for defense and tout something bigger, I hope you will do so with the thinking that you might as well be shooting a .32acp. I haven't read any autopsy reports on the bad guy yet, but unless the .40cal had to defeat something other than a shirt, skin, chest muscle, and rib, the trooper could have been using a .25acp fmj with the same results.

 

[el Godfather]

Mr dormant...
War movies.......sorry but I dont put much weight in that. Someone attacking a civilian will generally have a purpose of robbing/stealing/bodily harm. I doubt such idiot will keep pushing/charging after being hit. He is no hero saving the WORLD.

 

[C0untZer0]

I haven't read any autopsy reports on the bad guy yet, but unless the .40cal had to defeat something other than a shirt, skin, chest muscle, and rib, the trooper could have been using a .25acp fmj with the same results.

As far as the actual conflict went - yes I agree. And the perp tries to take a shot at the trooper one last time before jumping in the car, the gun doesn't fire and I'm wondering if he was out of ammo or the gun had a malfunction.

But who knows... maybe that .40 S&W gave him a bad case of angina and that's why he decided to retreat.

Maybe a shot with a .32 ACP would have allowed him to drive further - fix the malfunction in his gun and start another shootout at the end of a chase.

In the 1986 Miami Shootout, the 9mm Winchester Silvertip that Jerry Dove shot Platt with would have killed Platt even if Platt hadn't received any other injuries and the Silvertip was credited as being the primary cause of Platt's death. But that doesn't mean a FMJ or .357 magnum wouldn't have yielded better results for the agents involved.

It's obvious that in the recent Oregon shootout the 40 didn't penetrate the heart, I'm 99% sure that's because of shot placement not lack of penetration or fragmenting or something like that, but what the round did do was cause massive and fatal bleeding that killed John Van Allen before he drove a half mile from the scene.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Knowledge doesn't stop a bullet and I don't think human physiology has changed that much in 32 years, that if 32 ACP was working 32 years ago, it doesn't work anymore.

But, alas, we don't know if 32 ACP was working 32 years ago.

There weren't a lot of folks who had .32s, back then, and we don't know how effective they were with their weapons and rounds. (72 or 82 years ago might be a better "target" period, as that was probably when the largest number of .32s were in service -- the period before and on through WWII...)

We also don't really know what's working NOWADAYS.

Everything we see or hear seems to be anecdotal, based on information from someone who knew someone who had a friend, etc., etc. Gelatin tests are helpful, but they are not human flesh -- gelatin doesn't shoot back or stab us with knifes if we don't hit it just right.

We should also remember that .38 Special was also working 32 years ago, too -- but so many folks have moved away from .38 special (in both the LEO and military worlds) that you'd almost think physiology HAS CHANGED.

I wonder if .32 would be popular at all, nowadays, if LEGAL concealed carry wasn't so popular and widely allowed? The rationale I hear most often is "I can carry a .32 to places I couldn't carry anything else."

 

[jimbo555]

M-2 carbine had it right on post #7. If your at home in a room why limit yourself. If 32acp is all you can handle because of some limitation than get a high capacity 32 like the beretta or cz. If not get a full size 45 like a glock 21 and practice.

 

[Sergei Mosin]

There are some neat old guns in .32 ACP that I wouldn't mind having. But for serious social occasions? No thanks - I want the most powerful weapon I can get, within a given set of constraints, which in the handgun context usually center around concealability, and I can easily conceal something more powerful than a .32 Auto.

 

[PRM]

.32 ACP - I like it, one of my favorite calibers. Yep, there are some great classic guns built in this caliber. My Walther's get carried the most, followed by my NAA Guardian. The Guardian is great for deep concealment and within its design limits is a very nice little firearm. It's not a tack driver, but will deliver fist size groups at 10 yards and in. My Walther(s) carry and conceal easy, are extremely accurate, and have been flawless performers. The light recoil makes for fast follow up shots. The 9 shot (8+1) is a nice package in a small dependable firearm. Everybody has an opinion, and we all know what opinions are like. If you don't care for it, there are lots of other flavors to choose from.

 

[JERRY]

as Q. would say. ^

 

[C0untZer0]

This would work for room defense:

http://www.czechpoint-usa.com/products/pistols/sa-vz-61-scorpion-in-32-acp/sa-vz-61-scorpion-765-br/

They're only $600.00



.

 

[peacemaker45]

Mr dormant...
War movies.......sorry but I dont put much weight in that. Someone attacking a civilian will generally have a purpose of robbing/stealing/bodily harm. I doubt such idiot will keep pushing/charging after being hit. He is no hero saving the WORLD.

You hope. Your attacker might not be a hero, but might still be desperate, angry, drugged, fat, muscle bound, or a combination of the above.

But hey, do what you like. You've got my opinion, do with it what you like.

 

[mavracer]

You 32 slingers did see the video that is on one of the posts where the deputy hit the guy in the chest, and he still reloaded fired again and jumped in his car only to die a half mile down the road.
There is a good reason why you want to shoot someone with a high caliber bullet. It's called surviving the fight. You are going to have to hit that guy 4 or 5 times with a 32

Ok how does a 40 that fails to stop an attack put your faith in service caliber firearms. Looks to me like that means you might have to put 4 or 5 rounds in the chest no matter what handgun you have.

Unless you are that good that you can put a couple rounds in his heart or a head shot

That's why I practice cause handguns suck and forget the heart shot you can destroy the heart completely and he'll still have plenty of time to shoot to slide lock or walk across room and kill you.

if you poo poo on a .32acp for defense and tout something bigger, I hope you will do so with the thinking that you might as well be shooting a .32acp.

AMEN

 

[jimbo555]

32 years ago 32acp was considered weak but much better than a 25. Hasn't changed much in my book.

 

[gym]

Come on guys, a 32 is below the threshold of an acceptable defensive weapon. That little cartoon of the brick going through the window, was taken from the "Bond movie", DR No, from 1960ish, where "q" says here is your new gun, the Walther PPK's, it hit's like a brick through a plate glass window. The Beretta he replaced was a 32.
Not that this writer knew more about guns than some of us do, but he was eluding to a change in the technology of weapons and ammo. The 32 had it's day, people are larger now, and more muscular, and also some are just, Fat, the 32 is not the best round for the job when we have spent billions of dollars, improving weapons and ammo.
We may as well have issued 32's to our troops. That sounds smart.

 

[mavracer]

Come on guys, a 32 is below the threshold of an acceptable defensive weapon.

Come on gym what threshold, your personal arbitrary one. Truth is the Fiocchi 60gr SJHP I use in my 32 will completely penatrate and exit a 16" block of ballistic gel something most 9mm SD ammo won't do.

 

[Black Butte]

Come on gym what threshold, your personal arbitrary one.

There's no threshold? Great! The subsonic .22LR is my new personal defense round.

 

[gym]

Now your cherry picking rounds, So what about the Liberty 2000 fps 50grain hollow point or Powerball ammo for 9mm, or the Corbon Powerball ammo in my 40 or 45.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxxtfSr_zH8, then tell me if the 32 is really in the same ballpark. That is great if you are shooting at gel, unfortunately people get up if the temporary wound cavity isn't sufficient. The, 9, 40, 357, 10 ,45, and even 38, and 380, will get the job done faster and with higher pressure loads, terminate the aggressor much better than a 100 year old bullet made for use in the era prior to high tech ballistics. It isn't personal or arbitrary, if 32's were sufficient for stopping men, why don't any police departments or military units use them anymore, easy, they are outdated.
Why pick and antique to defend your life with.

 

[PRM]

I don't recall anyone saying the .32 was the same as a 45. And, the .45 certainly is not the same as a .223. The .32 is no different now than it was when John M Browning invented it. And, perps haven't morphed into the invincible either. It's a personal choice what anyone carries and there are trade offs with whatever they choose. I've been carrying and shooting Walther(s) since the 70s and over the years have grown quite fond of them for reasons previously stated. I also don't feel the need to upgrade every time something new comes out. My needs are met comfortably - I live in the rural South and folks haven't started shooting one another at the local Sonic over the cheesburgers yet. If they do, I'll just start keeping my rifle a little closer.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

...I live in the rural South and folks have not started shooting one another at the local Sonic over the cheesburgers yet. If they do, I'll just start keeping my rifle a little closer.

If you've got a local Sonic, you're not TOO rural.

If it comes to that, do you plan to carry your rifle with you when you eat out to pick up a 'burger? Will we see a resurgence of gun racks in pickup windows?

--------------

There have been a lot of glib answers in this chain, by those on both sides of the caliber divide.

What do we really know about the stopping power of any of the rounds being discussed? The ONE STOP SHOT database has been pretty-much debunked as poorly documented and very choosey in its selection of data. I've come to think it's useless.

Ballistic gelatin is a useful simulation of tissue, but it doesn't go much farther than that. It will address penetration, but it doesn't do much to simulate a round's ability to break bone or to be deflected by such structures in the flesh.

One of the TV reality shows compared warriors of different eras, but in doing so used imitations of human bodies to show how different weapons and different techniques worked. They also used the bodies of dead goats and pigs (often hanging) to simulate human opponents. Is there anything like that, out there, ANYWHERE, that we can use to evaluate the effectiveness of rounds?

We've had a number of dog attacks in this area, despite pretty harsh leash laws and stiff penalites; a number of people were badly mauled by dogs. My concern, recently, has been more about dog attacks than people attacks, and I'm not sure that my favored 9mm is enough to dissuade two or three Pitbulls or a couple of Rottweilers....

Dogs, steers, pigs, horses, can all be killed with a single well-placed .22 round, but those "bad guys" are usually confined and can't come after you. You don't have to be a great shot to get the placement you want. A fast moving attacker (be it human or canine) is a totally different story...

 

[DanTheFarmer]

My $0.02.

What you are getting when you buy/carry/keep handy a firearm is peace of mind. If your mind is more at ease if you have a 32 ACP than without then the 32 ACP works for you. If you're spending all your time worrying that it isn't powerful enough then it doesn't work for you.

All firearm choices are a series of compromises. If you're happy with the ones you've made, good for you. The most common choices are 380 - 45 ACP as acceptable for home/self-defense work. The 32 ACP is just below that but if you've looked at the 12+" of gel penetration of a 70+/- grain fmj and are comfortable with it, again, good for you.

Good Luck.


Dan

 

[goon]

In the past there were times when the best gun I had for HD, had it come to that, was a 10/22. I loaded it with good ammo and lived with it. If I had only a .32, that's about what I'd do.

If the original poster only has a .32 handgun and can't afford to upgrade or must not use a larger caliber for other reasons, I guess it'll have to do.

But if at all possible, why not use a shotgun or rifle? Especially something like a 20 gauge would be very effective, still manageable by recoil sensitive shooters, and not too expensive. It's not like you need to carry it anywhere if you're only using it for HD.

 

[mgkdrgn]

Dear THR:
Assuming under 10 yards (large room), what is your take on using .32 acp as SD weapon? Sufficient or not? If not, what is the minimum power that you are comfortable with in this range?

I know we are bound to get posts emphasizing on placement so for the purpose of this thread lets just focus on caliber only.

Thank you

ANY gun will do, so long as YOU will do.

 

[PRM]

LOL - ya mean like this