7.62x39 home defense ammo

[spyke]

I have been trying to find this for some time. Cannot seem to find a proper candidate. Does anyone know of a suitable round that will feed in a semi auto rifle without over penetration. Is a rifle just going to be out of the question for the role of home defense in the burbs?

 

[CosmicGrooves]

get a shotgun.

 

[ECVMatt]

I like this stuff....

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=116209

Shoots good out of my guns and expands....it is a bit hard to get though

 

[Art Eatman]

IMO, any rifle is quite likely to penetrate several walls in modern housing, absent brick walls.

I figure that any hunting ammo is the best "stopper" for self-defense.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

Wolf military classic 124gr HP. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=217268
It'll penetrate several walls but so will handguns, buckshot, or anything else that will penetrate deep enough to stop someone determined/on drugs. Don't miss.

 

[Hatterasguy]

Yeah right that Hornedy round will probably slice through 2-3 raised ranches before stopping.

Their isn't much in a modern house to stop a round.

I recomend a Mossberg 590.

 

[ByAnyMeans]

While never using my 7.62x39 or any rifle for home defense. I would think any of the major ammo manufacturers with a "hunting" line of 7.62x39 would work. Personally I would look for a seven shot 18in 12 gauge, go used and it is relatively inexpensive.

 

[2ndAmFan]

If you haven't already been there and done that you might look into frangible rounds. I know they make them in that caliber but I've never used them so I don't know if they'll feed/cycle.
Otherwise I'm not sure I'd use a rifle in the burbs. The shotgun recommendations are on the money.

 

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

A rifle for home defense in the suburbs is not responsible and a poor choice. You do not have the right to endanger your neighbor's family in your own self defense.

I'm not sure what you consider "Suburbs" but twelve feet from the wall of my room is the neighbor's kitchen wall. Think about that long and hard and factor it into your HD choices.

 

[Kman]

too many other choices to consider before using any rifle round as HD. Handgun cartridges from a semiauto rifle are great, if not wanting a good shotgun.

 

[Snowdog]

Well, Corbon DOES offer the 7.62x39 in their Glaser line, "blue" I believe. I suspect these would be least likely of all 7.62x39 loads to leave your house as the bullet may begin to fragment after the first couple walls. From my understanding, Glaser's do not need to enter a body to expand as JHPs and JSPs do since they're already prefragmented.

They also cost a bloody fortune. A 6-round blister pack of 7.62x39 Glasers cost roughly $15, but I suppose some might see the benefits of a frangible ammunition to justify the $75 to fill a 30 round magazine (!). Personally, my .30 Carbine is loaded with JSP. I don't plan to miss.

 

[benEzra]

A rifle for home defense in the suburbs is not responsible and a poor choice. You do not have the right to endanger your neighbor's family in your own self defense.

I'm not sure what you consider "Suburbs" but twelve feet from the wall of my room is the neighbor's kitchen wall. Think about that long and hard and factor it into your HD choices.

That is true of some rifle calibers, not all. Selected civilian .223/5.56x45mm JHP, for example, penetrates less in building materials than 9mm/.40/.45 JHP or even 00 buckshot.

7.62x39mm penetrates more in building materials than .223/5.56mm, because the heavier 7.62mm bullet is much more resistant to fragmentation in wallboard. In brick-exterior house, though, something like Wolf Military Classic 124gr JHP (loaded with the Ulyanovsk 8M3 "Sapsan" bullet) shouldn't penetrate an exterior wall, and fragments very well in gelatin (and water jugs):

I would be hesitant to use current 7.62x39mm loads in a non-brick-sided house in a crowded neighborhood until I see some realistic wallboard + exterior-wall tests (close-spaced drywall stack tests are much less helpful), or until some lighter-bullet/higher-velocity loads hit the market. I live in a brick home, though, so it's not really an issue, though as with any pistol/rifle/shotgun, you still have to be aware of window and door openings. If you do live in a soft-sided house, you may want to consider another caliber.

 

[Cosmoline]

Dark Knight--I think you seriously underestimate how far a bullet from a mere handgun or buckshot will penetrate. Put bluntly there is NO WAY to "safely" use a firearm anywhere but a gun range. There is always a risk. If you want to be as safe as possible you get the job done with the most powerful, most accurate platform available so as to minimize the rounds fired. The x39 SP's with high quality bullets are an excellent choice. I would avoid the Wolf SP's and HP's as they are pretty crude designs. Hornady makes some very nice stuff.

 

[ECVMatt]

Here is some additional info on the Hornady stuff:

http://www.brassfetcher.com/D&S Manufacturing 123gr Hornady V-Max.html

http://www.tacticalgunfan.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=553&Itemid=1

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=48771

might not be perfect, but it is a start.....

Good Luck with your choice...

 

[ShootingFool]

Check out "Box of Truth" (Google it) for some real penetration testing.
The dilemma is, if it won't fully penetrate a wall (other than brick), its probably not a reliable round for penetrating a human being, for one shot stoppage purposes anyway.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

A rifle for home defense in the suburbs is not responsible and a poor choice. You do not have the right to endanger your neighbor's family in your own self defense.

Bullcrap.

This is, in fact, exactly the opposite of reality.

The reality is that all rounds that will realiably achieve adequate penetration for defensive use will also penetrate several typical interior walls. The reality is that this risk is always minimized by ammunition selection, and this remains critical for rifles as well.

The reality is that rifles are the current first choice for many professionals fighting indoors. While most of these are 5.56mm carbines, the advantages of proper ammunition selection combined with the increased velocity afforded by all rifles over handguns and shotguns means that a semi-auto carbine, when properly loaded, is not only more terminally effective, but also poses less of a risk of over penetration or collateral damage than many defensive handgun rounds. This is due to the increased tendency of most expanding rifle rounds to fragment upon hitting solid objects.

The reality is that if you have neighbors twelve feet away, you don't need to be shooting towards that wall, with anything. Or if you do, don't miss. Because regardless of whether it is a 9mm with a quality JHP, 00 buck, or a .311 caliber JHP from an AK, it's probably ending up in your neighbor's kitchen. That is an issue of tactics and it applies to handguns and shotguns, as well as rifles.

And the reality is that most people finding hitting quickly under stress much easier with a rifle than a handgun. Since only hits matter, and since misses with anything pose such a risk to those around us, this is a very important consideration.

The issue here is proper bullet selection, which is what the OP is interested in.

For home defense, I would recommend Wolf's Military Classic 124 gr JHP. This round, unlike many others for that cartridge, has been demonstrated to expand and fragment reliably while offering near perfect penetration for defensive duties. Most of the accounts I have read of this round being tested end up with it being recovered after penetrating 14 to 16 inches of geletin, reaching a maximum wound diameter of about 5 inches after about 8 inches of penetration, with a recovered bullet diameter around .6 caliber and retaining about half of its original mass.

 

[rangerruck]

silver bear hollow points...

 

[Big Bill]

Get a Machete and sharpen it really good for HD - guaranteed not to penetrate neighbor's house.

Seriously though, what about this...

RRLP - 7.62x39 108gr RRLP Flat Base (Per 50)

Item Number: 52860
Quantity in Stock: 2
Retail Price: $32.99
Sale Price: $18.76
You Save: (43%)

RRLP .310 108gr Flat Base 62X3 (Per50)

Barnes’ RRLP (Reduced Ricochet, Limited Penetration) bullets feature a frangible, powdered-metal copper-tin core inside a guilding metal jacket. The bullets are lead-free—often a requirement in military and LE practice environments. These open-tip bullets won’t come apart in mid-air, even at very high velocities and extreme rates of spin. They combine accuracy with explosive fragmentation, and won’t destroy steel practice targets.

Frangible bullets lacking a protective jacket tend to break apart inside autoloading rifles. A major selling point for RRLP bullets is that they remain intact under the rigors of autoloader feeding and firing. They eliminate the primary cause of jammed actions and plugged barrels often experienced in firing frangible ammunition.

Specifications:

- Caliber: 7.62x39 (.310")
- Grain: 108
- Per 50
Barcode: 716876310104

http://www.fedtactical.com/rrlp-762x39-108gr-rrlp-flat-base-p-11468.html

 

[benEzra]

Check out "Box of Truth" (Google it) for some real penetration testing.
The dilemma is, if it won't fully penetrate a wall (other than brick), its probably not a reliable round for penetrating a human being, for one shot stoppage purposes anyway.

Unfortunately, (AFAIK) the Box o'Truth has so far only tested .223 FMJ, and not with room-like wall spacing (important for realistic tests of fragmenting rounds). There is one simulated-walls test of .223 JHP's floating around THR, but it was interior walls only, and decent 7.62x39 JHP wasn't tested. Even so, the fact that .223 JHP and SP mostly penetrated only two walls, while 00 buckshot penetrated all three, was interesting.

 

[Sunray]

"...without over penetration..." None. It's not just penetration though. It's how far any bullet will travel after going through a window or door. Think in terms of several miles. Bricks won't necessarily stop an FMJ. They will absolutely not stop a 7.62 NATO round. Shot a cinder block(Basement wall brick) into wee pieces, at 100 yards, when doing a demo for my troopies, long ago. A .303 ball round goes right through bricks, as well. Dry wall you can punch a hole in with your fist.
"...Box o'Truth..." Bunch of good old boys playing with firearms. Non-scientific food for thought though.
"...my .30 Carbine is loaded with JSP. I don't plan to miss..." Speer 110 grain HP's in mine. I don't plan on missing either, but it happens. Shot at a ground hog one day from about 2 feet and missed. My witness is dead though. Laughed 'til it hurt.

 

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

The reality is that rifles are the current first choice for many professionals fighting indoors. While most of these are 5.56mm carbines, the advantages of proper ammunition selection combined with the increased velocity afforded by all rifles over handguns and shotguns means that a semi-auto carbine, when properly loaded, is not only more terminally effective, but also poses less of a risk of over penetration or collateral damage than many defensive handgun rounds. This is due to the increased tendency of most expanding rifle rounds to fragment upon hitting solid objects.

I am not a mercenary or SWAT "operator" and most of us are not. We will not be using ,223 carbines dressed to the nines in tactical gear with an assault team. Most people will find themselves stumbling out of bed, groggy, in their dark bedroom cause they just woke from a noise in the night. Whatever SWAT teams and gunhands choose to use, in my opinion, has no realistic bearing on my situation, equipment, or tactics.

It's a realistic issue for many of us, whether you are insensitive to it or not. We don't all live out in sprawling open country in Montana where we can just shoot. The fact that you could kill a home invader, but live only to find out that your stray shot killed the neighbor's daughter as well, is not something that should just be dismissed so easily. Like I said before, twelve feet away is another house. Any rifle round used should be given a LOT of consideration and real world testing of that specific load and the user should be aware of what it does and where, before someone just loads up the AK and god forbid decides to go Rambo on a burglar one night.

You are right on the Wolf MC, it is a very devastating load btw.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGrq1oP37LI

 

[spyke]

Ya i dont think its likey im going to find an acceptable round to fit this role. I currently have an sp101 and p 94 (jam o matic) for defensive roles. I gess if i ever need the ak for backup i prob have more to worry about than overpenetration anyways.

 

[Sunray]

"...The reality is that rifles are the current first choice for many professionals fighting indoors..." Nonsense. If they've ever actually fired any firearm inside, they avoid it at all costs. Nobody fights inside if it can be dealt with with arty, air or a tank.
"...also poses less of a risk of over penetration or collateral damage..." Rubbish.

 

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

"...The reality is that rifles are the current first choice for many professionals fighting indoors..." Nonsense. If they've ever actually fired any firearm inside, they avoid it at all costs. Nobody fights inside if it can be dealt with with arty, air or a tank.

But...But...The cover of the MAGPUL catalog....

 

[Art Eatman]

'Scuse me. The issue is ammo choice, not weapon choice. How about we assume that the OP has a clue about his neighbors' safety?