7.62x39 home defense ammo

[schlockinz]

Just a thought, but why all the buck shot talk? I'd think that something like a high brass 6 mag load with a full choke would be lethal at HD ranges (seriously, are you really going to be shooting past 15yds?), and that load should lose its penetration abilities quickly.

Then again, thats speculation, I have not tested this at all.

 

[UnTainted]

It may, or may not, depending on what the BG is wearing, how thick his or her fat layers are, their muscle layers, and the angle you're shooting.

With a shotgun, I'd stick with buckshot or slugs. A handgun would have monolithic or bonded ammo (for the same fat and muscle and bone issue), and my rifle ammo for HD is something that penetrates at least 8-15".

Nostler ballistic tip is good ammo also for HD, because it has fragmentation properties, but also holds enough of the bullet together to penetrate through your BG (having less energy on the other side of his/her body). I also have a mag of 125 grain .308 next to the hornady 110.

An advantage of using the AK is the folding stock option, which could help maneuverability in the home, though in a HD scenario, unless I'm moving to children, I'm going to stay put and use the tactical advantage of the doorway.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

Because I have seen #6 and #7 1/2 birdshot from a 26 inch barreled M870 with an extra full turkey choke fail to anchor ground squirrels at ranges I have inside my house so many times, that I eventually abandoned my shotgun for everything but birds. My Ruger 10/22 is lighter and handier, has higher capacity, is more accurate with a longer effective range, and a 40 gr Velocitor puts down ground squirrels and varmints far more reliably than the birdshot does.

I am thinking about getting an 18 inch IC barrel and a +2 magazine extension and loading it up for home defense, but it's hard to justify that when the AK is already available and properly loaded, and really has all the advantages. Maybe not quite as terminally effective as a 00 buck round, but when I can hammer pair everything and still have almost twice the capacity the shotgun has...

 

[armoredman]

Interesting video here, carbine vs shotgun for home defense.http://www.gunsandammo.com/videos

 

[dogngun]

I have an old SKS.

I use Barnaul hollow points-have 10 in the mag, 60 on stripper clips in pouches on a carry belt.
Never had any type of problem with this ammo.

I also have a 12 ga. Mossberg with a 20" barrel, and a bandoleer loaded with remington 00 buck and 10 rifled slugs.

One is in one place, one is in another.

I carried a shotgun in the Army some of the time, and I like it, but I like the SKS's too.

mark

 

[JShirley]

Good answer.

I've used both of those. They work.

 

[The Sarge]

I use milsup hollow points or soft point 7.62X39 in my Saiga (modified)....I live waaaay out in the country and it is just my wife and I.....I always had a shotgun for home defense when the kids lived at home though....

 

[MCgunner]

if I wanted to be "adequately prepared" i'd have personal nukes.

Because we can't really go there, I try to prepare with the tools available for as many probabilities as are possible.

I think a shotgun or a .38 is more'n enough. I don't worry about zombies. I've never seen one. If we get a rash of zombie break ins, I'll load up my 7mm Rem Mag with 162 grain match kings and shoot for the eyes.

 

[Expertowgunner]

No offense to anybody here but why the bs about the shotgun being the ultimate hd gun. Buckshot=multiple pellets that are spreading in a semi-unpredictable motion that could possibly penetrate a wall and kill somebody on the other side. yes buckshot kills stuff good and quick but there are times a rifle or carbine would do better. id rather have 1 round that kills the perp and POSSIBLY penetrates the wall behind him than buckshot that will 6 out of 9 pellets kill him and the other 3 flying towards the old lady next door. what to keep in mind? COMMON SENSE use what you got available be as calm and intelligent as you possibly can in the situation and for god sakes dont do the spray and pray in your home unless you live out in the a$$ end of nowhere

 

[armoredman]

Umm, I am in the "rifle" camp, but I have to point out shotgun shot doesn't widen it's pattern that much at home defense ranges. If you are center of mass, you will put all 9 32 caliber pellets into center mass. I do that at work qualification with the Remington 870 and 00Buck at 25 yards, all on the B-27.

 

[mljdeckard]

Expertowgunner,

You need to pattern your gun. You can take the hostage shot with a shotgun if you know your gun and your ammo.

 

[JShirley]

mlj, I agree about patterning, but why? Full-power Foster slugs do not overpenetrate- in fact, at close range, they have less penetration than 00 buck in tissue. If one has to aim anyway, why not just use something that is more accurate, and can be used at close or more extended ranges without ammunition change?

J

 

[Snowdog]

You need to pattern your gun.

Good point. At ranges typical for a shot fired from inside my house, both my shotguns will put all 27 #4 pellets through a ragged fist-sized hole at the maximum range. I have little doubt I can put all 27 pellets (or 54 pellets, for that matter ) into an assailant who would be encountered inside the house, presuming I do my part.
Though I'd still grab the M1 Carbine first due to its "handiness", I haven't any worries about over penetration with my 12 gauge if I were pressed to use it.

 

[NG VI]

JShirley I'm with you bud, those Foster-style slugs penetrate less than reduced recoil Foster slugs because of the deformation, and I like slugs.

And they blow out into a mean donut too.

 

[JShirley]

I really like the M1 carbine, but SP from a M1 tends to penetrate A LOT.

 

[Mattcfii]

Right now my "house mag" is the Hornady V-Max load. I want to change this out to Corbon MPG sometime soon but at over $2.00 a round it just hard to swing it with at least one other box for a function test. It uses the Barnes RRPL/MPG 108 grain bullet which is very similar to their varmint grenade round. With the slightly reduced weight, lighter construction, and hotter loading (Hornady loaded at least the first batch of V-Max light), I think the Corbon MPG is the way to go.

My SHTF ammo is WMC 124 gr HP 8M3 bullet, which I keep hearing rumors that the latest WMC doesn't use the 8M3 but no real confirmation. I feel this is the best overall bullet for terminal ballistics, barrier peneration, and value. But it would not be my indoors with close neighbors choice because IIRC the jacket is still cooper washed steel. The 8M3 accomplishes the fragmentation with scores similar to handgun JHP. I don't think drywall is going to do much to it with that strong of jacket even with the scores.

I think the 230 grain drywall test is a great example of why rifles are a good option for home defense (and while Box o' Truth comes to the same conclusions, they aren't as realistic with the drywall stack). I have thought about buying a .223 AK for just this purpose since no matter how well the Corbon MPG load does it still weights more and goes slower meaning it will still out penetrate walls more than a similar .223 round.

I was surprised in that test to see the 7.62x39 tumble since FMJ has a bad rep on lack of tumbling (partly due to the M43 bullet), but I think Wolf loads the more modern FMJs anyway. I wish they had setup the last wall as an "exterior wall" with the last layer being plywood. It would have been interesting to see if the tumbling bullet still had enough engery to go through it sideways.

One twist is that I would NOT use a 5.45x39 for home defense unless it was the new Hornday load. 5.45 tends to be a very solid bullet that doesn't fragment often which rumor has it, is why that Russians actually prefer 7.62x39 indoors since it ricochets much less and just punches through. With the Hornady load though it would seem to be a great option.

 

[Ignition Override]

There is a very interesting report somewhere from New Zealand, as I seem to recall, which involved a stand-off around a criminal's house.
The reports of some bullet distances (200 yards+?) and their penetration of one or more walls of other houses made for some good reading.

Believe that .223 was under discussion, but don't know which gun website had the story months ago.

 

[Art Eatman]

Enough wandering about...