Austin TX: Alamo Drafthouse Lake Creek does not allow CCW

[DVDTracker]

Took the wife there yesterday to see I am Legend and I saw a 30.06 sign posted on the box office. The wording was correct but it did not appear to be large enough. Regardless, I'm sending them this e-mail later today and will be CCing all their locations.

I've been a fan of Alamo Draft House since moving here a few years ago. The combination of great food, mainstream and off-beat movies makes it my first choice when picking a theater. However, my recent trip to the Lake Creek location made me feel like an unwelcome customer.

As I was purchasing tickets, I saw a Texas Penal Code 30.06 sign on the box office which states, "PURSUANT TO SECTION 30.06, PENAL CODE (TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF A LICENSE TO CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN) A PERSON LICENSED UNDER SUBCHAPTER H, CHAPTER 411, GOVERNMENT CODE (CONCEALED HANDGUN LAW), MAY NOT ENTER THIS PROPERTY WITH A CONCEALED HANDGUN." I was actually a bit insulted to see this. Getting a concealed handgun license involves fingerprinting, background checks and a mandatory ten-hour training class with a licensed instructor. It's extremely rare for a licensee to ever need to use their handgun. It's also extremely rare to have a licensee convicted of any crime. Police are generally more at-ease if they encounter a licensee during a routine traffic stop. They know that we've done the training, fingerprinting, background checks and have jumped through the hoops to obey the law and we're on their side.

Is disheartening to see such a good business that enjoys the protection of the 1st Amendment by offering a wide variety of movies and entertainment treat those that enjoy the protection of the 2nd as unwelcome customers. If Alamo Draft House truly does not want law-abiding concealed handgun licensees as their customers, then I will take my business elsewhere.

Thank you for your time and I look forward to your reply.

If you're a frequent customer, contact information is here. Let them know. www.drafthouse.com/main/contact.php


I received a response today:

Hi Pete and thanks for writing. I have enclosed a link passed along
from another member of my management team that lists many commonly
asked questions and the appropriate answers from the Texas Department
of Public Safety Division of Handgun Licensing. There are several
answers to these questions that would qualify our choice to prevent
licensed handguns from being on the premise, however, the point most
applicable in this question and answer series is below:

"Q: Where can I not take my handgun?
A: Handguns and other weapons can not be carried at schools or on
school buses, at polling places, in courts and court offices, at
racetracks and at secured airport areas. The law also specifically
prohibits handguns from businesses where alcohol is sold if more than
half of their revenue is from the sale of alcohol for on-premises
consumption, and from locations where high school, college or
professional sporting events are taking place. You may not carry
handguns in hospitals or nursing homes, amusement parks, places of
worship or at government meetings if signs are posted prohibiting
them. Businesses also may post signs prohibiting handguns on their
premises based on criminal trespass laws."

Below is the link...

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/faq.htm

Ultimately, I most likely will not be able to make you feel better
about our choice. However, it is our choice. The same constitution
that permits you to carry a concealed handgun, supports our right as
a business to not want the handguns in our private business. While
there are probably many responsible members of society licensed to
carry handguns, and you no doubt are one of them, being the employer
of 100 plus non-armed employees, I do support my businesses decision
to post that signage. Please feel free to contact me directly at
[email protected] with further comments or concerns. Where this
topic is concerned, however, I do not have much else to say.

Yours,

Lauren S. Rogers
General Manager
Alamo Drafthouse Lake Creek
512.219.7803

To which I sent back:

Well I am disappointed to hear that. I will be letting my friends and customers know that they too are not welcome at your establishment. If you have time, I would love to know your reasoning behind not letting licensees carry at Lake Creek. Thank you.

BTW, only law-abiding citizens will honor a no-handgun sign. Criminals will not.

I believe these are franchises and I don't know if the other locations post 30.06, but I will not be going to Lake Creek ever again.

 

[velojym]

Yep, just like Luby's... safe zone for mass murderers.
I went to that theater to see Idiocracy... looks like they took it to heart, but on the wrong side.

 

[ttorion]

Please post this on TexasCHLforum.com. More Austin CHL holders will probably see it there.

 

[DFW1911]

30.06 has to be posted in Spanish as well to be valid. However, I'd rather not try to explain that to the cops.

Better just to use your dollars elsewhere.

Take care,
DFW1911

 

[DVDTracker]

It's been posted on TexasCHLforum.com now, thanks.

 

[ArmedBear]

Why do people whine?

Just don't support a business that you have any problem with, and make others who feel as you do aware of the problems as well.

Or are the entertainment options in Austin so limited that there's no other place to go?

 

[romma]

Why do people whine?

To me it didn't sound like whining. If he wants to boycott the place with others in the hopes that the owner comes around, why not?

 

[ArmedBear]

He should boycott the place with anyone he can muster up to join him.

I misunderstood the post, though. Didn't read it carefully. That was a letter to the owner. My bad. It was an excellent letter to the owner. Sorry about that.

 

[DFW1911]

Personally, I appreciate his posting and the action he took.

One side note: just because a business posts a sign does not make that sign valid: the burden of meeting posting requirements is on them, not the CHL.

Take care,
DFW1911

 

[40SW]

The local AMC movie theater here has a big sign at the door, its sorta like one of those no smoking signs, but its a revolver with a big red line through it that reads. "NO WEAPONS ALLOWED"
I spoke with management, they were very nice and quoted a similar Florida statute to me. So I voted with my dollar and my wallet. I come in contact with hundreds of cwp students as well. Word gets around and they are also voting with their wallets and pocketbooks. I sure hope that cable, Blockbuster, and direct TV sales go up as a result.
While I do support private property rights, from a business standpoint ,they are alienating alot of patrons, especially in pro gun states like Florida and Texas. Let the free market speak.

 

[TX1911fan]

I'll be sending similar letter to Alamo. We have to let them know why we are not coming. That way they'll know it isn't because the food is bad or other reasons. The guy's response was confusing too. Why did he quote the other stuff if he was just going to say that they didn't want guns. If they are a 51% business, then they have to post that sign anyway, in which case I would be fine with it, and my beef would be with the State and not the business. Methinks it was quoted to try and confuse the issue.

 

[Zundfolge]

The real problem is that the state allows businesses to post signs that have the weight of law.

Why are "no guns" signs so special? If you walk into a business with a "No Pets" sign with your golden retriever in tow, all they can do is ask you to leave, not quietly call the police and have you arrested. Same goes for those "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service" signs.

Business owners have a right to set policies in their businesses, but not set laws.

Here in Colorado, if a business doesn't want CCW in their establishment they are free to put up a sign, and if I ignore it and go in anyway and they detect I'm carrying they can ask me to leave ... if I refuse THEN I'm guilty of a crime (trespassing).

 

[starfuryzeta]

The local AMC movie theater here has a big sign at the door, its sorta like one of those no smoking signs, but its a revolver with a big red line through it that reads. "NO WEAPONS ALLOWED"
I spoke with management, they were very nice and quoted a similar Florida statute to me.

Last time I read FS 790 , there is nothing in those laws that gives that sign any power in the state of Florida. All they can do is ask you to leave.

 

[40SW]

starfury:
I would rather that they didn't ask me to leave, I would rather vote with my $$. Hit them where it hurts.

 

[Nebor]

I sent them an email as well.

 

[geojap]

I'm going to call and talk to them. I have been going to the Alamo in Austin for as long as I've lived here, 13 years. I'm pretty sure they were open downtown back then when I came here. I'm really disappointed by this.

The Alamo Drafthouse is a franchise, started by the original one on Colorado and 4th street, that just moved onto 6th street into the old Ritz. All the locations are owned by different entities, I believe.

 

[Prince Yamato]

Just eat somewhere else. Austin has many good restaurants. Is the one on Lamar a 30.06 as well?

 

[geojap]

Just eat somewhere else. Austin has many good restaurants. Is the one on Lamar a 30.06 as well?

I'm calling them all to find out right now.

 

[geojap]

I actually just got off the phone with managers at all the locations in Austin. I explained to them why I was calling. None of them except the manager at the downtown/Ritz location knew what a 30.06 sign is. The downtown manager only knew because of today's events. I explained to them what the sign was and why I was calling.

South Lamar, The Ritz/downtown and The Village location do NOT have 30.06 signs posted.

The Lake Creek location DOES have a 30.06 sign.

The manager at the Ritz/downtown location was very helpful and told me that the Lake Creek location is a franchise, and the TABC had told the Lake Creek owner that she should put the sign up, because the Lake Creek owner thought that more than 50% of their sales were from alcohol. (This begs the question that a TABC 51% sign is more appropriate, even if the basis for it is probably inaccurate.)

The manager of the downtown location continued and asked me if there had been something happen on the internet where some group got a hold of some information or something, because their offices had received a steady stream of calls and emails all day. For her edification, I told her about the High Road and TexasCHLForum.com, explaining we were law-abiding Second Amendment supporters and firearms collectors/enthusiasts who think the right to self defense is very important, and that it had been posted there. She asked if I could tell everyone that they (all the other Alamo theaters and especially hers) have no issue at all with licensed individuals carrying on their property.

I thanked her for her time and told her that, of course, it is her property and she can do as she likes, but we all very much appreciated her choice. She was a very nice woman and it was a nice chat.

It sounds to me like the manager at Lake Creek might not understand all the details of the penal code regarding concealed carry in Texas. I bet if she had an open mind to understanding the few extra things that she needs to learn about CHLs, she would probably take down that 30.06 sign. I believe that she thinks that she possibly gets greater than 50% of her revenue from alcohol (which is unlikely), so she needs a 30.06 sign. It is probably a misunderstanding that could be cleared up.

 

[Fisherman_48768]

"PURSUANT TO SECTION 30.06, PENAL CODE (TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF A LICENSE TO CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN) A PERSON LICENSED UNDER SUBCHAPTER H, CHAPTER 411, GOVERNMENT CODE (CONCEALED HANDGUN LAW), MAY NOT ENTER THIS PROPERTY WITH A CONCEALED HANDGUN."

Similiar law in Michigan, I have to wonder why they don't want legal concealed carry but they don't seem to mind illegal carry?? No where have I seen a sign that says no criminal or illegal carrying of concealed or open carry of any weapon. As if the criminal element paid any attention to the law much less private citizens' signs.
Just penned lauren an email:

I understand your right to tell me I can't legally carry a concealed weapon on your property. However, I do have to wonder why you are so selective in discriminating against lawful citizens exercising their right. You don't seem to mind illegal or criminal weapon possession on your property or did you intentionally discriminate against law abiding citizens "...PURSUANT TO SECTION 30.06, PENAL CODE (TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF A LICENSE TO CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN) A PERSON LICENSED UNDER SUBCHAPTER H, CHAPTER 411, GOVERNMENT CODE (CONCEALED HANDGUN LAW), MAY NOT ENTER THIS PROPERTY WITH A CONCEALED HANDGUN."
Notice that this does mention holder of a license, I guess this means you welcome or at least don't mind creating a criminal empowerment zone otherwise know as a CEZ. Ask yourself where have the massacres occurred? Schools, posted malls, churches ever wonder why, bet ya haven't but these are also places that don't allow legal license holders to carry. Yet those mass murder want to be's have been stopped multiple times by legally carrying citizens.

Good luck may you never experience the criminal element exercising their right that you so willingly endorse.
Signedxxxx

 

[geojap]

Similiar law in Michigan, I have to wonder why they don't want legal concealed carry but they don't seem to mind illegal carry?? No where have I seen a sign that says no criminal or illegal carrying of concealed or open carry of any weapon. As if the criminal element paid any attention to the law much less private citizens' signs.

When the law was made, there was a strong lobby from business owners to be able to control CHL carry on their property. The business lobby won. I don't think they were thinking about the big picture, recognizing that in reality, the crooks still carry their guns.

 

[WinchesterAA]

So, you open carry a desert eagle straight to the HDTV section, pick out the most expensive one you can, then get kicked out by a crying sales rep.

Sounds like a good day to me, and might even get the message across.

"You coulda made soooo much money, but nah.. you kicked out the one guy here who probably isn't insane."

 

[Daniel T]

geojap, thank you for the homework.

 

[Markbo]

As I say all the time... we ALL have the responsiblity to carry the message. But only ONE irate, ill conceived, insulting, threatening or illiterate message can ruin all of your good intentions.

This lady may not be an anti. She may just be a non and just not understand the big picture. This is an opportunity. Call her. Meet with her. Explain that just like LEO, we have training and a license. Any BG sees that sign and they could care less... they KNOW nobody licensed is going to be there.

Impress upon them the extreme uncertainty of anything happening, BUT how many off duty LEO's do you (that lady) think carries? How mean off duty LEO's come here that you don't know about? Why would you discriminate against the MOST law abiding of citizens instead of putting up a "No guns allowed" sign, showing us CHL's that we are in affect welcomed?

Use the opportunity for positive good. Be affable, friendly and helpful instead of angry, sullen and threatening.

 

[DVDTracker]

Many thanks GeoJAP, that's excellent news!