Best home defense rifle?

[zx12rider]

Beretta CX-4

Beretta CX-4 nice and short. I've only shot it inside of 50 yards but accurate as hell, no recoil. I have yet to see it jam, but I have a new one so we'll see.

 

[benEzra]

The problem with the AR and AK is that misses (and even hits) are going to be skipping all over the neighborhood.

Really if anyone seriously thinks about this topic, it's a no brainer. A high velocity rifle will go through several walls and potentiall strike an inncocent victim.

Civilian .223 JHP typically penetrates less in building materials than most handgun JHP, and a number of 55gr loads penetrate less than 00 buckshot.

http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall/results.html

Why on earth would you use an AR? Being more expensive, with more costly ammo, and with sights for longer ranges than what homes have.

Actually, AR's are easy to equip with the best HD-range sights available, as well as lights (a necessity on an HD carbine or shotgun, IMO).

 

[hirundo82]

Really if anyone seriously thinks about this topic, it's a no brainer. A high velocity rifle will go through several walls and potentiall strike an inncocent victim. A 12 gauge shotgun is the logical choice. In my Remington 870 police issue, I load this way 3 bird shot shells 1 00 shell, 2 more bird shot and last shell is another 00. Even at a short distance bird shot will do alot of damage, if the attacker is sill coming the 00 should put the agressor down dead with a chest or head shot.

This has been discussed around here a lot, and consensus always is that birdshot penetration is severely deficient for a home defense role--you basically have to have the muzzle in contact with the BG to get sufficient penetration for a reliable stop.

The high velocity, low mass projectile of the 5.56/.223 makes a lot of sense in an HD role. It is very unstable, leading to decreased risk of overpenetration. Slower projectiles (pistol rounds or buckshot) are more stable, leading to more penetration. This is one reason (in addition to the range advantage) that many SWAT teams have moved away from pistol-caliber shoulder weapons like the H&K MP5 to the AR-15/M-4 platform.

 

[_N4Z_]

Remington 870. Nobody is gonna stick around after hearing you pump that slide.

Ignorant gunstore BS, unworthy of this forum or most others.

About 20 years ago while I was still in the Army, I got home late one night from the field (Ft. Sill OK.) and wasn't ready to turn in just yet. It was between 01:00 and 02:00 in the morning, and I was laying on the living room floor playing Final Fantasy on Nintendo. The nieghbor lady was gone on vacation and had timers on her lights. Just so happened that here window was lined up with ours (the one by our TV anyway), the light over there was on, and I saw a head walk past between our houses.
Well.... as you can imagine curiosity got the better of me in seconds. Looked out the window to see a strange car in her driveway. Was good enough for me. Went out the back door in nothing but my shorts and Rem870. Dude never heard a thing, he was really occupied trying to jimmy her front door.

Snuck within 7 yards of him, racked the slide... And Mr. wanna-be thieving bastard went stiff. So..... In that instance yes it did work, and nobody on my block was robbed that night. Fortunately for all involved he didn't make any moves to escalate the situation.

Would I repeat that performance today? No, I'd probobly do things a bit different now. I was much younger then and nowhere near as wise.

But it did work. ....still have that same shotgun too.

 

[KodiakBeer]

Civilian .223 JHP typically penetrates less in building materials than most handgun JHP, and a number of 55gr loads penetrate less than 00 buckshot.

True, which is why if you'd read the very next sentence in my post, I said:

If you choose one for home defense, I'd load with ballistic tips or some other 'big splash" ammo to minimize drilling rounds into the neighbors house.

 

[natman]

+1 M1 Carbine with softpoints.

 

[Oceans]

Ruger Mini 14 with factory mags. A reliable, combat accurate, carbine that will do all you need to do out to 200 yards. This rifle has been in use with numerous correction/law enforcement agencies and is proven, simple to operate, and easy to maintain.

 

[atomd]

Where is this magical land? The land where you can buy .223 that's cheap? Don't say Cabelas. I was just there.

Compared to most other popular centerfire rifle cartridges, .223 is cheap. Right now Cabelas is selling Remington for 6.99 a box. Last week they were selling PMC for 6.99 a box. A few weeks before that they had steel cased russian in white boxes marked "Tula"...basically the same stuff as Wolf for $4.99 a box. When buying 55 grain FMJ in brass I don't pay more than $7/20. Steel is even less.

.40 S&W FMJ in brass for practice is usually priced around $20/50 these days. That's .40 cents per round. .223 in brass at $7/box is .35 cents per round.

Go look at the price of .308, .30 carbine, 30-06, etc etc and tell me .223 isn't a heck of a lot cheaper. It's priced pretty much the same as a lot of pistol cartridges. So is 7.62x39 too.

 

[paducahrider]

What to use for home defense?

Howdy!
There's absolutely no chance of consensus on this subject because we are all different, and every "situation" will be different also.
However, since I have an opinion, I guess I've gotta get my feet wet; It's hard to beat a shotgun because of the fear factor projected when a bad guy just HEARS the sound of a pump being jacked, an auto action being closed or a double slamming shut. Additionally, a variety of projectile types can be loaded into the gun, simultaneously, to quickly cover different situations. Even with a double, you have the option of different loads.
A similar deterrent can be obtained, from the sound of a lever actioned carbine(16" to 20" bbl), being operated.
If I were to buy one for hd purposes, it would be a 357 mag or 44 mag, but, since I'm cheap and tend to use what I have, I'll just stick with my old (1897 built), Marlin model 1894, in 44-40 caliber. These rifles are light, short. have ample stopping power and relatively low recoil.
Any of the above would getrdone, in most situations.
Thanks for your time.

 

[the elton]

not neccesarily....although rifle rounds are much higher velocity and carrying more force if using frangible or highly expanding rounds i would propose that a layer of sheet rock on the wall would be nominally enough to set the bullets properties into action and the second provide a backs stop....while im not sure on this i think i may now have a reason to build target stands out of 2x4s and dry wall, expecially for the sake of figuring this out....

all in all i think a rifle is a poor choice in a hoome defense weapon because unless you train to enter a room but "cutting the pie" and know how to handle a weapon like that in close quarters it seems more of a liability that help...especially since you said you are more versed in pistol calibers, that leads me to believe you shoot pistols quite a lot, yes? maybe consider a quality handgun with a tactical rail, a nice set of night sights and a good surefire tactical like for it....if you insist on the rifle though keep in mind they make stocks for glocks

 

[Art Eatman]

A primary part of this particular thread is low-recoil. See the opening post.

Semi-auto might be a preference.

Odds are, the least recoil would be from one of the .223 rifles, or from a GI Carbine. Next would be the lever guns in a pistol cartridge such as the .357 Maggie, if the user likes lever guns.

For household distances, any of those would work just fine. It's then personal preference for shape/size/style. And, of course, $$$.

 

[SsevenN]

Can't believe it hasn't been mentioned yet.

MSAR STG556, it's got the bullpup design, which is an advantage inside, fires an effective cartridge as well. Or as others have mentioned, the FS2000.

To the poster claiming the 5.7x28 is ballistically inferior to the .22 magnum, PLEASE do some research before continuing to spread internet myths.

 

[SpeedAKL]

Get a reliable rifle-caliber carbine. There are numerous good options; what is best for you can come down to ergonomic/handling preferences, desired accessories, and price. The options include:
-a quality AR
-a quality Kalashnikov in 7.62x39, 5.45x39, or 5.56 NATO
-FN FS2000 or SCAR, if you have the $$$
-SIG 556
-Steyr AUG, or the Microtech MSAR cloen
-Robinson XCR

 

[USSR]

If you have a bad shoulder, then look at an M1 Carbine with soft point ammo. It's short and handy, has 30 rounds and low recoil - hard to beat!

Yep!

Don

 

[General Geoff]

Sound deals with pressure - 223 runs, what? 52000psi? 38 runs just a LITTLE less...please

So you dismiss cited figures because of a faulty notion that chamber pressure is the only factor in determining muzzle report? Please.

Barrel length also has a lot to do with it. An AR pistol will be louder than a rifle OR normal pistol.

 

[Ben86]

If you have just had reconstructive surgery there is no need to get a shotgun. I have actually moved away from a shotgun as my primary HD long gun.

I suggest a .223/5.56 carbine with an adjustable stock. It has lots of power, but low recoil and is very maneuverable within a house. My pick is a Bushmaster M4.

 

[JTH]

Are there any facts about what a 12 Gauge 00 does to human flesh at 10-12 ft? Let's look at knees, chest, head.

As stated, it's going to be difficult to get a consensus on this topic, but it's interesting to hear varying view points and the posters rationalization for there reasons. Thread has gotten a little off track for the original poster, which was for the condition of his shoulder. There has been virtually every rifle recommended. How bout a 50 cal, just kidding!

 

[berettashotgun]

Does everyone keep missing the poster stating - "LOW RECOIL"?
As much of a shotgun fan as I am, it would be hard to beat any of the pistol caliber carbines for this role. Mag dumps are not really even needed in this scenario
If they only made a CX4 in 10MM
A VERY reliable semi 22lr that you could shoot WELL (!) would be worlds better than a bulky, complex -cough*AR*cough- carbine or rifle firing a recoiling round for the poster.
His tolerance to recoil might be a lot less than an other person.
Personally, I'd take my chances with my Glenfield model 60 ; it goes bang every time the trigger has been pulled, and those 22's are easy to practice with - the most valuable skill to have in a social situation by a country mile.
There is always bigger and better for someone else, but a hit ALWAYS counts more than a miss.
OTOH - a good dog or a mean wife is betest for the recoil disadvantaged.

 

[sarduy]

this

 

[Maverick223]

If you have a bad shoulder, then look at an M1 Carbine with soft point ammo. It's short and handy, has 30 rounds and low recoil - hard to beat!

Absolutely, my only suggestion is to use HP instead of SP if you reload or can find any loaded. It expands larger whilst limiting penetration a bit better (and still maintains acceptable penetration).

 

[sarduy]

and if you want low recoil this is a good option too



Kel Tec Sub-2000 40sw Glock mags

 

[CraigC]

A .223 fired indoors, in a small room will deafen you - if at night in darkness, it will momentarily blind you - even with a suppressor, it is still loud and hurts the ears. Just something to consider

This is one important factor that most people either don't consider or just ignore. It is extremely important to me. I would choose a pistol cartridge carbine for this reason if no other. While I prefer big bores, a .357 rifle is a VERY effective weapon against two legged varmints. I'd love to have a .45ACP AR, as an 8-10" SBR with suppressor for this role.

To the poster claiming the 5.7x28 is ballistically inferior to the .22 magnum, PLEASE do some research before continuing to spread internet myths.

Exactly! You hear this all the time but it just isn't true. The 5.7 is similar, only if you compare pistol velocities to .22Mag rifle velocities. In just the 10" barrel of the P90 the 5.7 is at least 300fps faster. No doubt that gap increases with a 16" barrel. I would also consider the PS90 an excellent choice for the home defense role.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

To the poster claiming the 5.7x28 is ballistically inferior to the .22 magnum, PLEASE do some research before continuing to spread internet myths.

In the tests already linked above, the 5.7x28 out of a PS90 (16" barrel) showed a velocity of between 2,054fps and 2,063fps on impact (i.e. 10' away from the muzzle).

The CCI Maximag claims to throw a 40gr bullet at 1,910fps out of a 22" rifle barrel.

The new Hornady .22WMR 30gr has a velocity of 2,200fps out of a 22" barrel.

Now maybe you are just a precision kind of guy and find that 153fps difference from a .22WMR and a 5.7x28 to be a significant difference. If so, then let me explain that I am more of a "practical effects" kind of guy, and in terms of the practical effects from a defensive standpoint, there isn't much difference between a 5.7 SS197 round and a 40gr .22WMR Remington JHP.

The 5.7 is similar, only if you compare pistol velocities to .22Mag rifle velocities.

See above.

I would also consider the PS90 an excellent choice for the home defense role.

A .22WMR or a .22LR rifle can be a very effective defensive tool if the person has the rights skills and mindset. I certainly wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of one. Having said that, it wouldn't be my top choice and neither would a PS90 for similar reasons.

 

[SsevenN]

In the tests already linked above, the 5.7x28 out of a PS90 (16" barrel) showed a velocity of between 2,054fps and 2,063fps on impact (i.e. 10' away from the muzzle).

The CCI Maximag claims to throw a 40gr bullet at 1,910fps out of a 22" rifle barrel.

The new Hornady .22WMR 30gr has a velocity of 2,200fps out of a 22" barrel.

And once again you are either being intentionally dishonest, or you're just ignorant.

You just compared the SLOWEST 5.7x28 to the FASTEST .22mag

Here are the numbers for the X-terminator round, which can be purchased, or you can 'roll your own' and obtain similar results. (these numbers are for a 45 grn bullet)

"FiveseveN Pistol - 1,975fps - 390 Ft-Lb’s P90 - 2,380fps - 576 FtLb’s PS90 2,585fps - 668 Ft-Lb’s "



2,585fps out of a PS90 barrel, which is only 16 inches, still BLOWS AWAY your best .22mag loads out of a 22" barrel.

Sorry buddy, but 5.7x28 is a more powerful round, period.

 

[Z-Michigan]

I would hesitate to use a .22 WMR or any rimfire for defense due to unreliable feeding from the rimmed cartridge and potentially unreliable ignition from being a rimfire rather than a centerfire.

I have shot a PS90. Among other things I found the perceived recoil to be much more than expected and as strong (if you can call it that) as an AR-15. All the AR-15s I've shot have such light recoil that I could shoot literally 1000's of rounds a day without hurting my shoulder the slightest.

I also found the PS90 to have a poor (FN factory) optical sight, poor ergonomics, and generally little to recommend it in 16" barrel semiauto-only form. Perhaps the AR57 would be a little better. The FN P90 makes sense, in limited and specific circumstances, for a government user who gets the 10" barrel, full-auto version. The changes to sell it on the US civilian market (post-1986, of course) wipe out the benefits of the smaller cartridge. Personally I would take any good AR-15 in 5.56 over an 5.7x28mm carbine without hesitation.

IMHO, a person wanting a highly effective, very low recoil defensive carbine should really start and end with the 5.56mm/.223 Rem caliber, as it has overwhelming practical benefits for a civilian looking for those purposes (I can see reasons for a military or large LE agency to consider others). In fact the only other round I would really consider would be the very similar Soviet counterpoint, 5.45x39mm. Moderate cost, low recoil, high effectiveness for either one.

Among those two calibers, my personal pick is an AR, but I see no problems at all with a Mini-14, AKM type, or any other quality, reasonably proven semiauto design. Or even Remington's 7615 pump-action .223 carbine, if for some reason you don't want a semiauto.