Buyers market..?

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Calling the Democratic candidates communists is offensive.
Close, they're socialists -- and some even claim that label with pride.

We have one local shop, open Tuesday through Saturday that's always busy whenever I stop in and they seem to be selling a lot of guns -- plenty of turnover on their counters. And I don't consider their prices all that great, either. At our local big box stores, in the evenings and on weekends, you've gotta take a number and get in line for the gun counters.

Could be a regional thing.
 
Close, they're socialists -- and some even claim that label with pride.
Not really. Sanders chose a really stupid name for his affiliation. Actually they are Social Democrats like the major parties in Europe. There is no interest in undoing capitalism, just regulating it. And the primary goals are social welfare programs like the ones most of us depend upon.
 
Not really. Sanders chose a really stupid name for his affiliation. Actually they are Social Democrats like the major parties in Europe. There is no interest in undoing capitalism, just regulating it. And the primary goals are social welfare programs like the ones most of us depend upon.

Keep making excuses for those clowns.
 
What the Left doesn't understand is if they really wanted to hurt gun companies and gun stores and see more go bankrupt, they'd just leave guns alone and never talk about them. Panic sells. Joe Sixpack wants what someone tells him he can't have.

AR-15's were available for public purchases decades before the 1994 assault weapon ban and most gun owners didn't really care about them. Once that ban expired in 2004 everyone and their Mom jumped on the band wagon and needed one. Along came Obama and then everyone and their Mom needed 3. During the .22 lr panic everyone I know ended up having 10 times the amount of .22 stockpiled at the end of the panic than they normally ever had before. It's kind of crazy to think where we'd be if that assault weapon ban would have never happened and what would happen if mass shootings didn't generate 1,000's of hours of news/publicity in a way glamorizing these crimes.
 
The whole problem is that everyone is so price conscious (frugal) , that us gun buyers don't allow a local gun shop to make a living...they do so many little things without any fee, yet you are willing to save a few bucks buying on line...and then look for free help when you have a problem....pay it forward to your local shop....or it will be gone...save your pennies where you may....but don't complain when your local gun shop is gone....support woulda kept him alive... A few bucks won't break you to support the local guy.....
 
The whole problem is that everyone is so price conscious (frugal)QUOTE]

Don't forget the fact that quality guns basically last forever, or at least a couple lifetimes if cared for properly. Just imagine how many car dealerships there would be if you could buy a car and have it last for 30 years or longer.
 
The whole problem is that everyone is so price conscious (frugal) , that us gun buyers don't allow a local gun shop to make a living...they do so many little things without any fee, yet you are willing to save a few bucks buying on line...and then look for free help when you have a problem....pay it forward to your local shop....or it will be gone...save your pennies where you may....but don't complain when your local gun shop is gone....support woulda kept him alive... A few bucks won't break you to support the local guy.....
It is an efficient market system. Making your best deal online will result in a market that reflects the modern world. I never walk into an LGS. Big box sporting goods and the internet do everything for me that I need. I won’t miss the LGS.
 
Keep making excuses for those clowns.
I make no excuses for them and won’t vote for them unless there is no other way to remove the scourge that now afflicts our presidency. But at least I know accurately what I am rejecting. I don’t delude myself with smug assumptions. Everyone’s a comedian, eh? Well, it isn’t funny.
 
Offensive to the candidates or offensive for communists to be associated with that group of candidates?
Ha, ha! Another comedian. Keep laughing while your beloved president steals everything from you he can including your self-respect.
 
The only reason I tolerate the political right and vile Republicans is for guns. Now I barely do that since more Libertarian candidates are running lately.

I think every time I see a post conflating socialists with communists and the evils of Democrats, I’ll just pop in with my reminder that Republicans are pretty morally sick, too.
 
I'll support local guys. I'll gladly pay 10-15% more to a couple of them. The place I use for transfers charges 35 bucks... highest place I know actually, but the guy who owns it is a vet and retired LEO, and seems like a decent guy so I drive the extra 20 minutes and pay more, I did just that today actually. But these days I'm not feeling sorry for most either. The biggest 3 locally won't even send a gun back for you if there is a problem, So why not order online? I'm certainly not paying double for an atmosphere that no one actually likes either. I also won't forget their 76.99 bricks of golden bullets from a couple years ago. Say whatever about big box stores but Dunham's and walmart didn't triple their ammo prices.
Maybe you guys have better brick and mortar stores but between me and my shooting friends (2 brothers) ive seen probably 400 guns bought at 25-30 stores and have seen exactly 0 I'd say done anything special. Free half assed scope mounting (no lapping and canted scopes) if you pay double for the scope and rings... if you have an issue you deal with the company and fed-ex it yourself so no benefit there. Only 3 had a gunsmith and one of those was gander mtn. Until recently I'd never bought online, I ordered a rare gun I couldn't find locally. Then a few trade ins...... Now I'm leaning more and more that way. So online sales is definitely cutting in but offering nothing in the store other than personal opinions, is the reason most are buying online in the first place.

But I think market saturation will cause markets to change and manufacturers to make different products.
 
Folks, please keep the political name calling out of this thread or it will get locked, for sure.

There are two more or less unrelated problems happening in the gun market right now. Both of which have already been touched upon.

The first is that the firearms market is cyclical. However the political winds are blowing so goes the firearms industry, gun rights organizations, and so on. Nothing, but nothing has a more positive impact on the gun market than some politician who gets into power, or appears they might get into power, who starts running their mouths about gun control. At the moment we have a president and a senate majority that won't allow any significant gun control measures to go through so people are becoming complacent. Let that change though and watch what happens to the market.

The second thing is what is happening to bring and mortar stores everywhere that sell pretty much anything. The Internet, and big box chains, are driving an Extinction Level Event. If an lgs cannot adapt to a changing environment they are going to perish so that a more fit organism can replace them. If they want to stay in business they've got to find a niche that allows them to survive, whatever that will be.

I buy from several local independent gun stores, as well as online, and from the big box chains such as Bass Pro, as they suit my needs. None fill all of my needs so I go with whatever works for a given situation.
 
It is an efficient market system. Making your best deal online will result in a market that reflects the modern world.

It really only reflects distributor pricing schemes. 99.9% of "Mom and Pops" don't have the same buying power as the huge online places.

Unlike Amazon, Walmart, etc. putting every other retailer out of business. We have to have FFL's.
Without an FFL willing to transfer it doesn't matter how much you can buy it for at Buds, etc. We are definitely "cutting our nose off to spite our face", as the saying goes.

**for the record I have purchased a singular gun from one of the big online "discount stores". So I am not quite immune from the lure.
 
Stores that limit themselves to guns and gun gear tend to disappear pretty quickly around here.
I believe that the oldest gun dealer in my area has been in operation since 1945.
It is established in an old farm and feed store building and continues to sell farm and ranch supplies, general hardware, trucker's gear, clothing, military surplus, and outdoor cooking equipment as well as guns, ammo, reloading supplies, safes and hunting gear.
They seem to be doing very well.
 
Actually a lot of the online gun commerce does involve brick and mortar gun stores, just not the ones in my neighborhood. And as for their inability to buy cheaply, that is kind of false too.

All you have to do is look up a gun on www.gun.deals. You will see the best prices anywhere, and a lot of the stores are just local stores willing to ship in response to online orders. That is a great synthesis of two different marketing schemes. Why shouldn’t all local stores do that to stay in business?

As for wholesale prices, you will see on gun.deals several dealers with the exact same price on a gun and the same looking website late for that gun. They are all buying the gun from the same distributor. It may even be drop shipped from the distributor to the retail buyer and never be in the store’s stock. So they are all buying at cut rate wholesale prices from distributors who are getting the economy of scale deal and passing it on. It is like a big retail co-op.

I wouldn’t worry about LGSs. Not the smart ones, anyway.
 
I used to buy at local gun stores exclusively until I realized how bad I was getting screwed. Then I tried to negotiate with the owners of the gun stores. I.e. suggesting to them I wouldn't mind paying a premium over the online price. The result of that was they would just get mad at me and act insulted. Just like with auto parts, electronics, and a host of other products if you know what you want purchasing online is quick, pleasant and for the most part without hassle.
It is not the retail buying publics fault for what is happening to brick-and-mortar stores. When manufacturers beganselling large quantities at steep discounts to big box stores that was the beginning of the end. And that started 35 to 40 years ago. It has made me sick ever since but there's nothing I can do about it. I continue to vote with my feet and with my pocketbook as the real voting does me no good.
 
It really only reflects distributor pricing schemes. 99.9% of "Mom and Pops" don't have the same buying power as the huge online places.

But nearly every gun I've bought (except a 329pd from davidsons) have been from mom and pop stores online. They have been half what local stores have. Today I picked up my second 320, for 300 bucks from an online sale. It came from a brick and mortar in NH. The store that done the transfer (and all my transfers ) had the same gun for 589.... luckily they are a pawn shop and bring in their money that way, because surely no one is paying double.

Another local store has 7500 new guns in stock at anytime. At least as many used. Surely they have more buying power than the little gunstore I'm buying from online. Yet they price at double. The guys online also have stores and light bills......I've been to 2 of the ones I buy from online. (Sadly I can't buy directly because they are out of state....30 minutes from home. Lol. Dumb laws.
 
The biggest gun shop in the USA (their words not mine) is fairly local and does a spot on the local news occasionally. They have no range, no fancy lighting, no ice cream or fancy cotton candy machine etc. They say things have slowed since the huge increase during Obama but are ok. I was in Buds in sevierville a month ago. It was packed but I honestly didn't see anyone buying. Plenty using the range. Online sales and such have certainly cut in too. Prices are low too. I've bought two sig 320 cpo guns for 300 bucks. (I prefer Glock but they were cheap...) Stores aren't making much per unit. In the last year I've bought sig 22x series, HK USP, Glock and Beretta and the most I've paid is 450 bucks. 10 years ago I don't think I could have gotten any of them for 450.

I can't imagine how that market would be. I work in textiles manufacturing and see changes in the market/ slow downs/material preferences etc. But The gun market is a different beast. John moses browning died nearly 100 years ago. Most every gun sold today is still using his designs. Innovation means cutting off 1/2 inch of grip and calling it a glock 423.2c.x. mos.gen.... you get the point(or if your another company just copy a glock as close as possible without getting sued for it
...looking at you smith) or taking a hundred year old 264 or 223 bullet and changing the case and powder and convincing everyone it's now suddenly more relevant. Or coming back out with a new version of a weapon that failed 50 years ago. How many markets are dominated by 50-100 year old designs. Cassette tapes, VHS, 14 foot satellites, carbureted cars, all 25 years old/all ancient history. 1911, AR, hi-power, mauser action, 10-22, sig 22x, any revolver (except the rhino) even the Glock is pushing 50. I'm not complaining, I prefer most of the older guns. Just making a point
The guns themselves aren't even viewed as consumabes anymore. I'd bet 90% of privately owned guns never even wear out a magazine or recoil spring, much less the gun itself. Most are looked at and traded like baseball cards. Even here on a gun/ shooting forum many of us have old guns that are still like new. It's not a problem to find a 100 plus year old gun and still use it.
I say all that to get to the point of market saturation. If nothing new (especially new and innovative) is coming, and our old ones aren't shot enough to wear out, then the market can't stay "Obama era". That was a bunch of old guys panicking and driving a market. We spent a bunch, so companies reinvested and came out with new (not innovative but new-ish) guns. (Your welcome btw) How many of us bitched about 22 ammo and kept looking for it. I opened up a new case a couple weeks ago, the date on it was 2004.


The thing is,, often a company will introduce a new ‘different’ gun,,,,like the Chiapas Rhino,, and everybody complains and attacks it before it even hits the shelves.......that isn’t fair to the manufacturers, and it keeps others from trying anything new.
 
The thing is,, often a company will introduce a new ‘different’ gun,,,,like the Chiapas Rhino,

Absolutly. Just like music or movies or games. If you release the same ol thing people bitch. But if you change anything.... people also bitch. It's a delicate balance for sure. I'm just saying that eventually everyone will have enough AR/1911/ glock etc that they want. And since no one wears them out the market must slow or change
 
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