Chiappa went cha-put

[JohnKSa]

<<<Note. The information below is incorrect. The frame is aluminum but the recoil shield is a separate part and is made of steel.>>>

The frame (and therefore the recoil shield) is aluminum.

If it flexes during firing, it will eventually break. How long it takes depends on how much it flexes and on how well/poorly it's designed. That's the way aluminum works.

 

[beag_nut]

The frame (and therefore the recoil shield) is aluminum.

If it flexes during firing, it will eventually break. How long it takes depends on how much it flexes and on how well/poorly it's designed. That's the way aluminum works.

If that is true (being aluminum) then that explains everything to me.
Pelo801, do you know for sure exactly what that area is made of?

 

[JohnKSa]

Pelo801 posted as I was posting. If the recoil shield is actually a separate part then it may be made of a different material than the frame. I assumed that the construction was conventional and the recoil shield was part of the frame.

Based on his post I looked up some parts diagrams and it doesn't appear that the recoil shield is integral to the frame. I found at least one source (in addition to barnbwt's comment earlier in this thread) that indicates that the recoil shield is made of steel--if that's correct then my previous post should be ignored.

 

[Creature]

How long has it been since you contacted Chiappa?

 

[wally]

I hope you have better luck with them than I did with my 1911-22 Paying shipping to send it back turned out to be throwing good money after bad as it came back functioning if anything worse than before.

They totally ignored follow up Emails.

 

[barnbwt]

Chiappa has slow service, don't hold your breath (I think they communicate with Italy via marathon runners).

"The frame (and therefore the recoil shield) is aluminum"
It's a steel plate insert that slides in sideways, and is probably secured with those weird pin holes. Actually a pretty effective way to protect the frame. The frame is mere 7075, and not tough enough. The crack is much more jagged at the bottom of the hand slot toward the firing pin bushing; that's your nucleation point (each zig and zag of the crack is likely a propagation from each overload, which is why they smoothed out as the gun weakened and cracked longer distances. It wouldn't surprise me if the breech face has been cracked for a while, and it took some time for the remainder at the bottom and top sections to fatigue out. MPI would be the only way to notice prior to that (you would see a line of magnetic particles stuck at the magnetically charged crack interface)

It's really shocking how little metal there is, I'd forgotten about the firing pin channel/threads that might be back there, too. Chiappa really needs to consider putting a radius in that slotted hole, or thickening the plate, or backing off on the hardness a touch.

TCB

 

[JohnKSa]

It's a steel plate insert that slides in sideways...

Thanks for the clarification. That makes a lot more sense. I've added a note to my earlier post.

 

[Pelo801]

I just came from the recyclers. I had them put their gun on it and they confirmed the shield is made of steel.

I contacted chiappa yesterday afternoon, which was Friday so I don't expect to hear from them atlesdt until Monday.

 

[HankB]

. . . I would say I generally shoot upper middle loads. Occasionally some pretty warm loads. And it does handle warm, or did make running warm loads easier on the shooter.

By "loads" I'm sure you mean different types of commercial factory-loaded ammunition - .38 Special, .38 Special +P, and .357 Magnum - manufactured in compliance with SAAMI standards, and not handloads, which the manufacturer might claim nullify your warranty.

Right?

 

[jhb]

Wow. Never seen a failure like that before. Interested in the end diagnosis and what chiappa does to rectify the failure for you.

Op you saw the part fall out and that was the only warning you got of the failure? Can't tell if the cylinder would have turned after that or not. I'm assuming the cylinder jammed up with the broken part? Thanks.

 

[Pelo801]

Yes HankB, that's exactly what I meant.

That was the only warning I got, seeing the part fall to the ground. After I saw the piece missing I didn't pull the trigger again so I'm not sure it would have jammed up or not. I would assume so because after that happened and you can see from the pictures the cylinder lift lever or I would call it cylinder advance or rotating lever is sticking out farther than it should be.

 

[Master Blaster]

There had to be a flaw in the metal. Thousands of cycles of the hammer hitting the firing pin assembly caused the crack and eventually it grew and let go completely. Chiappa should repair or replace the revolver.

 

[Rex B]

Not nearly enough cross-section in that part for the stresses involved.

 

[Jim K]

^^^

I agree. I don't know enough about that design to know why the recoil shield is effectively a hollow dome, but it just doesn't look strong enough to take the recoil of .357. There just isn't enough metal there. Plus, if the frame is alloy, they may have made a common mistake. It is not enough to just put a piece of steel into an alloy frame, since blows on the steel will simply be transferred to the alloy and peen it until it doesn't support the steel any more, whereupon the steel can bend or break.

Jim

 

[dusty14u]

Wow. I own the same model as you do but I don't put near the amount of rounds through mine as you do. The only issue I have had was light primer strikes with some handloads I use. Changed primers and problem went away.

Please keep us informed as I am highly interested in how Chiappa handles this.Mine was a gift from the wife after I had remarked about it after seeing it at a LGS.

 

[gamestalker]

A failure of that nature shouldn't have occurred, and if it was a high pressure induced failure, I would think the cylinder should have let go also. They need to make good on that, and I'm pretty sure they will. But I wouldn't be surprised if they mentioned the appearance of the recoil shield, it does look like it was getting battered by some pretty warm loads?

GS

 

[Pelo801]

From the purchase date that you provided, the one year manufacturer’s warranty has expired on your firearm. We would be more than happy to take a look at the firearm for you, however you would be subjected to our $50/hour labor fee plus parts as well as shipping to and from to repair the firearm. In most cases, repairs are completed within one hour. If you would like us to look at your firearm please email us back. Thank you for your time

Customer Service

Chiappa Firearms

1415 Stanley Ave.

Dayton, OH 45404

937-835-5000

http://chiappafirearms.com

Here is thier response. I have to say I'm pretty disappointed I called them today and told them, politely how I felt about their response. They claim this is the first case of anything like this happening. They told me I could send it in anyway and the gunsmith would look at it, then determine if it should be under warranty or not. I understand they have a year warranty, yardda yadda, but considering the nature and severity of this failure it should warrant special consideration and I told them this also.

I'm not sure where to go from here. I think I might call again tomorrow and see if I can get someone higher up the totem pole on the phone.

 

[dusty14u]

thanks for posting the response. I am not sure if it is good or bad. I can somewhat understand them being non-commital until they look it over. I realized that my wife bought mine through Davidsons and they have a lifetime guarantee. I could see them balking if they thought I did it through reloads or some sort of failure on my part. Which I don't think it would be in you case. Looks more like metal failure than abuse.

 

[silicosys4]

Here is thier response. I have to say I'm pretty disappointed I called them today and told them, politely how I felt about their response. They claim this is the first case of anything like this happening. They told me I could send it in anyway and the gunsmith would look at it, then determine if it should be under warranty or not. I understand they have a year warranty, yardda yadda, but considering the nature and severity of this failure it should warrant special consideration and I told them this also.

I'm not sure where to go from here. I think I might call again tomorrow and see if I can get someone higher up the totem pole on the phone.

Wow.
After seeing the construction of the frame and hearing their response, you can tell them that at least one member of a forum you are involved in just changed their mind about wanting to own a Chiappa rhino or M6 after hearing your story. Too bad, that was going to be one of my next firearm purchases.
I wonder if this failure becomes more common as more rhino's reach a high round count. Gotta love design flaws that tend to only rear their heads after the warranty expires.

 

[CraigC]

I understand not wanting to repair issues from normal wear for free but that is not normal wear. Ruger has no warranty at all but I guarantee they would've done something about an issue like that. As would most.

 

[barnbwt]

"Here is thier response. I have to say I'm pretty disappointed"
Tell them that word of this extremely serious design flaw is sweeping the marketplace, and will likely end up maiming or killing someone if it is repeatable. Tell them you were nearly injured (which you nearly were) by this failure, and they owe it to you/us to find out if this failure was the result of normal usage, simply due to its potential severity.

If they ignore that, they deserve whatever happens afterward. It's really a shame that Chiappa/Ghisoni shacked up with such trash to produce/import this weapon. If they fail to satisfy you (at least initially) on their dollar, I'd strongly consider rigging up a remote-fired demonstration of what happens when this breechplate failure fails to jam on the next round (use a hot dog as a thumb for added drama). Put it on Youtube, here, TTAG, and TFB if MKS/Chiappa insists on playing stupid.

That will be red meat for Rhino skeptics reading those sites; so much they'd probably comp you the damaged weapon for all the hits it'd produce.

TCB

 

[Rule3]

I do not understand the warranty. It is a Rhino yes??

Their manual on page 20 Article #1 States "Will warrant without any time limit"??

The Paragraph #2 says about the one year, so what the heck does #1 mean??

http://www.chiappafirearms.com/sites/default/files/manuals/RHINO Manual ENG revAPR2013_0.pdf

 

[Rodentman]

I also have a Rhino revolver. It has gone back twice (within a year) for light and off-center strikes. They replaced the hand and it's ok now but it always makes me nervous and I just don't feel comfortable firing .357's out of it. Just doesn't seem substantial enough. So it doesn't get used much.

I hope it works out for you. Something like that they should replace the gun, IMHO. And research why it failed.

 

[moxie]

1. Choice of particular metal/metallurgy is indeed a design issue.

2. Re customer service with Chiappa. Best advice is, as always, "remain calm." Approach them quietly but firmly. They'll probably take care of you. Use the heavy-handed approach and they'll lawyer up quick.

 

[hAkron]

Based on that response from their customer service, I have decided not to add a Rhino to my large revolver collection. Too expensive to take such a gamble. For the same money I could get a performance center S&W with a lifetime warranty.