Chiappa went cha-put

[Pelo801]

hAkron, I have a feeling a lot of people will begin to echo that sentiment.

I mean the serial number on my gun was 01167. This was the first rhino that showed up in any of the shops in my area. At the time it was a relatively unknown company producing a new gun with no reviews out there yet. I took a chance on it and in turn a chance on the company. It's kinda sad I got this response from them.

 

[JWR]

For the same money I could get a performance center S&W with a lifetime warranty.

You got that right ! (or even a Ruger at a tad cheaper) both proven designs. I appreciate what the Rhino try's to accomplish with recoil but I saw and read far to many stories of poor quality control right out of the box. I mean one review I saw the person never even got a chance to fire it, because when they got to the range the cylinder would not turn. Funny thing is this person did not seem to bothered by the fact he had to send it back for repair.

FOR THAT KIND OF MONEY,,,Pluz________________________________________

I don't give a crap how innovated it may be, if it hasn't been properly tested and proven it means nothing. And I can just about guarantee you it hasn't. Rushed to market.
And hire someone like a Jerry Miculek to show case it and wa-la the kiddies go ga-ga over it. Piece of junk using junk metallurgy methods and cutting corners to save money coupled with the notion they may very well not even have the real qualification to produce a good gun.

Even if the OP somehow gets a new gun out of them, how in the heck can you ever feel safe with something like that. However I honestly don't think they will do anything for him. They'll blame him for using roll your own hot loads and wiggle out of it. But who knows, he may get a new one, if he does he'd be smart to sell it and never look back.

 

[Drop45]

If I were Chiappa and never saw or heard of a failure like that, I would gladly exchange that gun for you and send it straight to my design department. First known failure of that kind and that was their response, for shame.

 

[jhb]

Just thinking out loud.....but possible this front lines employee isn't realizing this isn't a regular service/warranty issue? If it were my company I'd pay for the gun to see what failed and why. Especially in this lawyer world we live in today. Might be the one and only time it ever happens....I'd still want a happy customer and peace of mind. I think moving up the food chain is a good idea on this one....just in case you got a paycheck collector on the first run.

 

[barnbwt]

"I don't give a crap how innovated it may be, if it hasn't been properly tested and proven it means nothing. And I can just about guarantee you it hasn't. Rushed to market.
And hire someone like a Jerry Miculek to show case it and wa-la the kiddies go ga-ga over it. Piece of junk using junk metallurgy methods and cutting corners to save money coupled with the notion they may very well not even have the real qualification to produce a good gun."

S&W doesn't put thousands through as regular testing to my knowledge, and you can't really expect Chiappa to test for 70 years like S&W has before coming to market. What is your evidence of a lack of design testing? Thus far we just knew about a tendency towards spotty quality (esp. early on) that's hardly unique. Not sure what your deal with Jerry is, and besides, he burned his hand holding it stupidly, so not a huge endorsement. The 'metallurgy' is standard 7075 and through hardened steel; nothing wrong with either.

There's some legit worries here, but the guns aren't "junk," simply because the aren't perfect. I'm not convinced this isn't isolated, but it is serious enough that Chiappa should follow up on it. Even if due to unwarranted hot loads (it's not like K frame 357s were brick houses, either) consumers should know if breech failure is a risk.

Like I said, this incident is Grade A hater fuel for rhino detractors, so it should be quite useful in negotiations with Chiappa unless they are still as stupid as their RFID 'scandal' (totally undeserved skepticism from a customer yiekd a flatly rude and unprofessional official response)

TCB

 

[barnbwt]

"but possible this front lines employee isn't realizing this isn't a regular service/warranty issue?"
Yeah, at least early on I would plainly tell the operator "the gun broke in half" so they get a clear picture of how serious the failure was. This breech failure isn't something they deal with daily (one hopes)

TCB

 

[JohnKSa]

Given their response, I would probably send them the revolver and make it plain that you believe this is a warranty issue. Also make it clear that if they decide it is not a warranty issue that they should not do any work without contacting you first to establish a top limit on repair costs.

I think that once they have it, there's a decent chance that they will fix it as a warranty issue with no charge to you.

 

[TennJed]

Just thinking out loud.....but possible this front lines employee isn't realizing this isn't a regular service/warranty issue? If it were my company I'd pay for the gun to see what failed and why. Especially in this lawyer world we live in today. Might be the one and only time it ever happens....I'd still want a happy customer and peace of mind. I think moving up the food chain is a good idea on this one....just in case you got a paycheck collector on the first run.

Well of that is the case then that kinda makes it worse. This is a company that has a rep of making some of the worst 22lr out there (their 22s gets horrendous reviews) and they only warranty their work for a year. Now it looks like they don't care about customer service either. If it is a front line worker just cashing a paycheck they should care enough to put someone better on the front line. If it is not a front line working, then they just really don't care.

Not trying to bash them, but honestly it is hard not to. They make a poorly reviewed product. They will not stand by it. And they have terrible customer service.

 

[JWR]

@ Pelo801,

If you are still out there reading all this , Under No Circumstance Do You Send That Gun, take pictures and email them that. This is clearly a design flaw and liken to a automobile recall for safety issues. It blew up because the design cannot tolerate those loads, and you simply cannot market a product that says it can. Where does it say in the owners manual it's only good for 4 years and x amount of rounds. I've got evidence showing a Ruger LCR .357 with over 4000 rounds and counting of .357 in less than 2 years and not a trace of failure, and it was sent off to a gun lab for testing.

Contact a lawyer for advice. You could be entitled to not only the cost of the gun but emotional distress caused from the fact your life was almost cut short by a faulty design product. If possible try to find a lawyer who has an office over a liquor store. (that means they are hungry)
Once again under no circumstance send them that gun. Once you do they'll bury the evidence and by the time they get done with you you'll be committed to the farm.

 

[hAkron]

Chiappa doesn't design or manufacture this gun, they import and distribute it, so they likely don't do any sort of testing on it.

I would call back, politely ask for a supervisor. Explain what happened and ask for an email address so you can send them pictures of the failure.

Also - does this steel recoil shield just pop in and out, or is it somehow pressed in? I wonder if they couldn't just send you a new recoil shield for you to pop in.

 

[JWR]

Chiappa doesn't design or manufacture this gun, they import and distribute it, so they likely don't do any sort of testing on it.

All that matters is their name is on it. And like the 'domino effect' in a car crash it's the first one in line who gets the shaft, then they just sue each other right down the line. A 3rd year law student could make this case.
Don't worry they carry insurance. At worst they'll be run out of business. Pop up under some other name and start the importing all over again. And when we talk about design that design includes the metals use and the quality of those metals. Don't mean a thing what it's stamp as if's it's not properly tested throughout the design and build phase.

 

[barnbwt]

1) Chiappa bought/adapted the design from Ghisoni himself
2) Chiappa opened a plant in Ohio to make these stateside (and quality improved)
3) MKS of Hi Point infamy is the distributor (and initial importer)

"Under No Circumstance Do You Send That Gun"
This. At the very least, take a ton of pictures whatever you do.

 

[CoThG]

MIM.

 

[FIGHT NIGHT]

So, no one thinks it's the Hot Loads OP ran through the frame? I've never seen any brass indentions like that ever before either. Just saying 0.02

 

[Jim K]

I can tell you one thing. The minute a displeased customer says the words "lawyer" or "sue", they will cease talking to him. They won't take his calls and will return mail unopened. Once the threat of a lawsuit is raised, a company will insist that all contact be between the plaintiff's lawyer and their legal department. Period.

Jim

 

[JWR]

@Jim K,

Spot on !
That's why it has to be done clandestine through a lawyer. The OP should not even further communicate. Let a lawyer handle it. Don't tip your hand, the main thing is do not let them get there hands on that gun. It needs to be shown to a lawyer and documented.

 

[HankB]

I can see some popular YouTube videos in a couple of months, with links to gun sites all over the internetz -

"Chiappa Revolver - FAIL!"

"Chiappa Customer Service - FAIL"

If I were you, I'd check on the legality of RECORDING a telephone conversation if only you know it's being done - and then, IF LEGAL, I'd record all phone calls I made to Chiappa.

And you know, I was actually considering one of these, just because it's different and interesting . . .

Not now.

 

[wally]

I realized that my wife bought mine through Davidsons and they have a lifetime guarantee.

Anyone got experience with actually using Davidson's lifetime guarantee?

It might be worth paying their price premium for guns that could be interesting from companies with poor customer service and support like Chiappa, Kahr, EAA and others.

 

[dusty14u]

Anyone got experience with actually using Davidson's lifetime guarantee?

It might be worth paying their price premium for guns that could be interesting from companies with poor customer service and support like Chiappa, Kahr, EAA and others.

I've actually got three guns through them. My wife might have paid a premium but I certainly didn't. Last month I bought a RIA CS 9mm Officer size for under $400. Buds has them for right at $500. I bought a deeply discounted GSG 1911-22 in Officer size in the 200's. While I hope I never have to use their guarantee I will if need be. It would be hard to mis-interpret their gaurantee but if we needed legal representation our oldest son is a trial lawyer.

I am still hoping Chiappa takes a look at the OP's gun and he has some sort of replacement for his broken one. I have found that talking to the right person can make a big difference.

 

[hAkron]

1) Chiappa bought/adapted the design from Ghisoni himself
2) Chiappa opened a plant in Ohio to make these stateside (and quality improved)
3) MKS of Hi Point infamy is the distributor (and initial importer)

"Under No Circumstance Do You Send That Gun"
This. At the very least, take a ton of pictures whatever you do.

I was not aware of that. I guess this explains the high price of these guns.

 

[barnbwt]

"And you know, I was actually considering one of these, just because it's different and interesting . . ."

That might be a little harsh. This is obviously a rare (unique?) occurrence, it's not like there are multiple failures we've heard about --certainly nothing to suggest a reputation of a failure mode. While it looks like the design did them no favors, it's very possible a manufacturing flaw in the metal pushed this one over the edge, that would be exceedingly unlikely in another gun. It's not like S&W didn't make that 6-shot 357 with the 7 flute cylinder, after all . The only thing we know for sure right now is that Chiappa/MKS's service department sucks, which is supported more by past experiences than by the OP's experience (though it is not encouraging, either). That's at least one factor vs. S&W we know (knew) for certain.

The only Rhino failures I was aware of before this were FCG-related (jamming, breaking, binding...more binding) and last I have heard were largely if not completely resolved. Hard to blame them for taking a little time to work the kinks out of something this unorthodox/complicated (Ghisoni's 'fault,' not Chiappa's btw)


This also gives a good end-on view of the recoil shield insert. Truly stunning the triggers on these guns are as smooth/light as they are (it is also immediately obvious why the cocking lever is so clunky) (okay, that's much better than the +3000 pixel wide expanded image )

TCB

 

[C0untZer0]

Wow, for what these things cost I am surprised there is only a one-year warranty.

A $135.00 Hi-Point comes with a lifetime warranty.

 

[Waveski]

Barnbwt - very helpful illustration. I can now see and understand why it is rather hard to cock that hammer - lots of linkage.

A close friend of mine had has a Rhino. I have decided not to pile on here ; suffice to say that he has had his share of "challenges" - with the revolver and with Chiappa.

Italians are interesting designers.

 

[hAkron]

How is the recoil shield held in? Is it pinned, or just held in place by the internal parts of the gun? Is it the type of thing where if you detail stripped it you could just slide the recoil shield out and stick a new one in? Is this maybe a $10 fix?

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Given the obvious defect in the gun, I am really taken aback by the response from Chiappa. Their reputation is already spotty, but this is pretty ridiculous.

I think the OP is handling it correctly so far. Call again and elevate it to the next level of management. Try to point out that this failure is beyond what is reasonable, given the use of the gun. I would not send the gun to them until they are willing to commit in writing to a firm price for repairs or replacement.

Their little note about repairs typically take about an hour is total nonsense. There is no way that gun will be fixed in an hour's time, if at all. So then you'd be wracking up time on the meter, when you could have spent that money on a new gun. Or at least putting that money towards a new Rhino at cost, which they should offer, at the VERY least. Even though that would be an insult as well.

It also demonstrates that the CS rep that answered you knows nothing at all about gun smithing. Elevating it may get you someone who is paid to know about guns, rather than just someone who is paid to answer phones and emails in a corporate policy sort of way.

Unless they replace the gun for free, Chiappa is off my list forever as to a manufacturer I'll buy from.

It seems to me that some companies fail to recognize the power the internet has today. Word of this can spread very quickly, and seriously cut into a company's profitability in short order. That one customer service rep could end up costing the company investors a lot of money.