Club Ranges and the Humanoids that use them.

[fpgt72]

The RSO thread got me thinking.....not so much an RSO thread but the people that use ranges.

I will leave out public ranges as they flat frighten me.

One club has these baffles up....think like a highway sign filled with concrete I think...they stand up on I-beams. This is so "a bullet never leaves the range" so when you stand or go prone you can not see and not aim over the berm.....sounds like a good idea.

Now this is a private club, you pay to be there, you paid for those baffles... (there are 3 sets going down the range) A very good safety device....and it seems a good target.


How anyone can hit one of these things is well past me....if you shoot that bad you have no business with a gun....yea I know mistakes happen...this is why the baffles....but we have people shooting them just to shoot them.....shoot the I beam supports. Bullet holes are all over these things....and now that cameras are in place people have been asked to leave and pay for damages....and with some wealthy members our legal fees are nothing....so the cases usually don't go to court and they will pay a 1000 or so and go on their way.

Really the post about people acting like children at the range made me think about this. And it is just sad really....the "gun community" has enough issues without this stupid **** going on.

The other club has issues as well....people shooting trap houses....garbage like that.

 

[Jack B.]

At my gun club if your bullet doesn't hit the dirt berm you get a verbal warning 1st time. If it happens a 2nd time, you are gone till you learn the rules and abide by them.

 

[chicharrones]

Some of the outdoor ranges around here that got bypassed by urban sprawl have put up barriers like you describe, fpgt72.

These ranges use to have open fields past the berms, but neighborhoods have been put in, that while far away, are still close enough to be the recipient of a bullet that gets the proper elevation behind it.

 

[boom boom]

The economists call this tragedy of the commons. Any collectively owned property is subject to despoiling by a few of the jerks in the collective. It can be compounded by the free rider problem where "guests" with no stake in the property feel free to trash it. State owned properties often suffer the most or where the general public trespasses on private property to shoot at things. I would imagine that "guests" represent a larger proportion of problems at private ranges as these folks do at commercial ranges because of screening issues.

Things like this is why it is difficult to have nice things and that many clubs resort to draconian rules to discourage and ultimately exclude destructive idiots. If you can restrict your range population to those that obey an extensive list of rules, I would suspect that these folks would be much less inclined to damage property intentionally.

 

[375supermag]

Hi...
We had the same problems at one of the gun clubs I belong to.
Several years ago, we started finding extensive damage to the canopy over the outdoor handgun range. Bullet holes through the roof, bullet holes in the benches, etc.
Couldn't prove who was doing it.
Eventually a gate with card access was installed on the driveway before it reaches the clubhouse.
The assumption being that non members were using the range.
The damage has dropped off dramatically since then. We also are now required to carry our membership card and access card with us on all if the ranges.
We still get a lot of bullet holes in the target hanging boards on the rifle range but those are relatively inexpensive and quick and easy to replace. Have to assume it is simply the result of poor marksmanship and the large number of people doing mag dumps with semi auto rifles.
Never see any damage at the shotgun range.

 

[Axis II]

My club utilizes a 40ft target hanger that is made from 4x4 posts pounded into the ground, 2x4 strung along the bottom and top of the 4x4 and blue foam board screwed to the 2x4. Basically a big blue rectangle. The 4x4 are exposed for the most part but people still seem to chop them down to 1x1 until they finally need replaced. The foam board is about 6ft from top to bottom so there really isn't any reason to shoot up the 2x4 but yet again we have to replace the 2x4 every few months. The one thing about it that really ticks me off because I am the one usually stuck cleaning it up is the idiots with shotguns and bird/buck shot that think its cool to blow big chunks of the foam board out and leave basketball size holes in the foam. The foam is now weakened and you have pieces of blue foam everywhere and no way to hang a target. The club uses 3-4rail road ties high to keep the dirt from sliding down the hill and we pound treated 4x4 into the ground to hold the wall up. Each year we must replace the rail road ties because people want to shoot them up. If you have something that's about 6ft tall and 40ft wide how the hell do you end up hitting the 4x4, 2x4 and rail road ties? I am now finding the screws and washers we use to secure the blue board dented inwards from people shooting at them. I used to think the club was just full of grouchy stuck up old men but I'm starting to see the younger crowd is causing issues and it gives all us younger people a bad name. I even found some of the 50-25yard benches with holes in them. Again the backstop sits at the bottom about 3ft off the ground and its 6ft tall after that. How do you hit a bench leg or top with a rifle?

 

[Speedo66]

A small range I used to frequent in the NYC metro area was in a suburban neighborhood on a public utility right of way. It was run by the local police organization, was open to the public, but was largely unknown. Because of the location, handguns and .22 rifles only.

Fantastic resource, great high natural rock berm in front of it. All was well for 50 years until idiots began shooting at the electric insulators on power lines, well above the berm. When bullets began landing in home yards, that was the kiss of death. Their protests along with a utility who was tired of the repairs closed the range.

I was a guest at a private outdoor range, different state. At this one you shoot through a small hole in a solid barrier several feet in front of you, the hole restricts you from aiming high enough to go over the berm. It also restricts you from seeing anything other than the target down range. While I’m sure it’s safer, can’t say as I enjoy shooting there.

It’s always the few who screw it up for the many.

 

[Riomouse911]

It’s always the few who screw it up for the many

AMEN! That goes for knee-jerk draconian gun laws, intensive regulations on firearms and shooting, etc.

There are folks who really want to do the right thing, but their marksmanship or gun handling skills are lacking. These folks will occasionally blow a hole in a roof, bench, or hit a 4x4. The others? These numbskulls just like seeing what happens when they blast something with the gun in their hands. Those clowns are the ones who cause the most damage, and ultimately get shooting areas closed down.

Keep access limited, and require all members to supply a minimum of 4 hours per year on range repairs, and you'll see a drop in stupidity damage real quick.

Stay safe!

 

[Rembrandt]

90-10 Rule.......90% of the problems are caused by 10% of the people.

(Incident #1)
Our club is located in a University town, high population turnover every 5 years with students/faculty in and out. Club has over 1000 members with key fob electronic gate access and cameras at the ranges. Went to the range one day and over 50 college students were there. Asked to see their membership cards and only two people had them. Two college geniuses had invited their entire dorm floor to the range. They were all asked to leave and we revoked the memberships. (Lesson: Immaturity, bad parenting, ignorance, and entitlement mentality lead to abuses).

(Incident #2)
Club purchases and installs new portable outhouses for the convenience and benefit of members. Within a week the one behind the firing line on the gun range has bullet holes in it. Thank goodness no one was using it at the time, sure the vandal who shot it didn't check to see if it was in use. (Lesson: Some people should never be allowed to own firearms)

One life lesson I've observed over the years, people don't take care of things they don't own or put their own money into. This why welfare type programs, kids living off parents, giving people things they haven't earn is always doomed to failure.

 

[doubleh]

I have one gun club range available to me. It requires a 50 mile round trip. There are others but a 200 + mile round trip to the closest rules it out for me.

The local club raised the years dues three years ago by 33% in an attempt to weed out some of the more careless, destructive, and trashy members plus a crack down on the number of guests and how many times a year they can attend and it has worked to some extent. The target board holder were replaced three years ago as the old ones were literally falling apart from being shot upand they are made from welded three inch pipe. It was lobbied to install diverting shields on the pipe but it didn't happen. Too much cost was the reason given. Here it is, three years later and the target board holders look worse than than if they were made from swiss cheese. They have literally more holes than steel now. Is it deliberate or simply poor shots. I tend to attend early in the morning and never on weekends. I have never seen any of the shooters that are present hit a target holder but we are all older, seasoned shooters. The trash problem has abated some but there are still plenty of riddled coke cans, plastic water bottles, and paper left. I doubt over 10% of the shooters pull their targets. I carry a couple ot three walmart bags and fill them with trash when I go.

No matter the sport or the cost it's going to have a certain amount of slobs that participate and you can't completely cure the problem.

 

[boom boom]

I was a guest at a private outdoor range, different state. At this one you shoot through a small hole in a solid barrier several feet in front of you, the hole restricts you from aiming high enough to go over the berm. It also restricts you from seeing anything other than the target down range. While I’m sure it’s safer, can’t say as I enjoy shooting there.

It’s always the few who screw it up for the many.

That kinda sounds like the description of WWI sniper nests. I also went to a range that had something like that--it was like firing out of a concrete bunker and loud as heck even with plugs and muffs.

 

[Odd Job]

Range safety, design and correct behaviour by the users of the range are all important. A great case to demonstrate this is the death of Trey Cooley:

 

[Phil70]

Where we shoot is like shooting out a fort. There is a park across the river from where we shoot. So when we check in, you tell RSO what you are shooting , the time you check in. Then when you go to the range you sign in again with calibers and time. After your finished you do the same thing over again to sign out.

 

[Jack B.]

I know some people don't like to go to ranges with strict rules. But after shooting for many years at ranges without strict rules and shooting at ranges with strict rules I have found I prefer the latter. Don't like shooting with careless and dangerous people. Throw them out!

 

[berettaprofessor]

They have literally more holes than steel now. Is it deliberate or simply poor shots.

The county range here has baffles as others have described, also shot up a bit, as are the target holders, but the place is so restricted and with a keyed entrance that it's always supervised by RSO's and so I've got to assume that its mostly the result of accumulation of poor shooting. Heck, more perplexing than that, I have a friend who came over to shoot handguns on my place. He's an experienced hunter, and I would have guessed experienced with handguns, but when he was shooting at a shoot-n-c target hung about 5 feet off the ground from 7 yards away, he blasted through a PVC pipe (that was holding up some steel targets) that crossed the target stand about two feet below his target. FROM 7 YARDS he was more than two feet low.

 

[rskent]

How anyone can hit one of these things is well past me....

The range I shoot at has those baffles on the public line. They got shot up so bad, the club had to put steel plates up to protect the baffles. Kinda makes you wonder.

 

[Jack B.]

I've seen shooter's (rifle and pistol ) continue to shoot at a target with no hits. You would think they would stop and figure out where their bullet's are going or what could be wrong.

 

[herrwalther]

Last time I was at the range, I watched an adult intentionally shoot the target holding rail of an indoor range with a 12ga shotgun. One hand of the RSO grabbed the shotgun, the other grabbed the guy and he was forcibly removed from the range. Considering this range has a sign that says they will charge $5 for intentionally shooting the binder clips that hold the targets, I am sure he got a bill as well.

 

[JONWILL]

Last time I was at the range, I watched an adult intentionally shoot the target holding rail of an indoor range with a 12ga shotgun. One hand of the RSO grabbed the shotgun, the other grabbed the guy and he was forcibly removed from the range. Considering this range has a sign that says they will charge $5 for intentionally shooting the binder clips that hold the targets, I am sure he got a bill as well.

That reminds me of the time I spent hours building brackets on lower front of the pistol backstop at the range I belong to. They were made to support replaceable frames to hold targets.

L brackets where you lift an old frame out and slide a new one in

Instead of changing the frames( there were a dozen or more right next to the backstop) people just hung targets on the brackets. It lasted about 6 months.