Conversation with a friend where she asked "Why conceal carry?"

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MedGrl

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I was having lunch with a friend on monday and the subject of guns came up. I mentioned that I am looking into applying for my concealed carry permit. Now this friend has never shown any anti sentaments and has actualy been interested in a couple of my stories from the range. But after i mentioned the possibility of obtaining a CHL she got quiet. After a moment a conversation followed that I am going to try my best to recreate

Friend: Why would you carry?
Me: Why not?
Friend: Because it's dangerouse
Me: not realy. I've taken saftey courses and I am very careful about how I handle guns
Friend: I have no doubt that you're qualified to handle guns but why would you want to carry one. It's dangerouse.
Me: It realy isn't
Friend: Well...would you be willing to take more risks or do things you normaly wouldn't do without having a gun with you...Like walking down a dark alley alone?
Me: NO! I'm a self defense instructor I know better than that!
Friend: But if you had a gun you would feel more confident and be willing to go down that alley
Me: No...I realy wouldn't. If anything having a concealed carry makes you act safer than you normaly would because it forces you to think about your actions and what the consecences of those actions would be.

I highlited in red the two things my friend said that made me want to post this conversation here. The realization that people actualy think that people who carry put themselves in stupid/dangerouse positions because they are carrying shocked me. Like I told my friend. Concealed carry should make you more cautiouse than you would otherwise be. Am I wrong in that? I don't think so but I value the opinions of members here at THR. What do you all think?
 
MedGrl - I understand what you're saying, and I’ve heard the same exact mentality over and over.

Here are two examples of some annoying viewpoints I tackle even from “gun nuts”:

1: They wouldn’t want to carry because they think they’d get too pissed off and shoot someone who cut them off on the highway (for example). Now, they say this in jest followed by a chuckle… but I get the sense that they really think this is what happens when people carry – a sense that people develop a hair-trigger temper when they have a gun.

2: They’d be more apt to take chances knowing they have the old cold steel on their hip to fall back on should things get dicey. This is similar to your friends comment.

While your friend’s question might be shocking, a surprising number of people think it is a viable option – that’s what I found shocking.

Something else I’ve noticed quite contrary to the above is that once people actually begin to carry, they throw all of that nonsense out the window. They immediately tend to appreciate the responsibilities involved.

I suppose my point is that people tend to spout off at the mouth and get carried away by their imagination until they’re faced with the scenario in reality. I’m sure I’m guilty of the same thing with regard to one topic or another – I’m human.
 
Medgrl - I just dug thru some old threads of mine on another board and wanted to let you read this one - the result of a conversation I had with someone at my RC flying club - where I happen to open carry. Almost all other times apart from at home - totally concealed I might add.

My usual buddies are used to that but this person was a friend of another member.

Many folks fail to realize that generally those of us who carry take EVEN greater pains to avoid trouble and places with risk!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sheep - ''Is that a gun?'' (well it sure ain't a cup of Starbucks!)

Self - "Yes it is"

Sheep - "Isn't that rather dangerous?"

Self - "Do you see it doing anything dangerous?"

Sheep - " Er - well no"

Self - "Does it bother you?"

Sheep - "Scares me a bit"

Self - "Why would that be then?"

Sheep - "Guns kill don't they?"

Self - "They can, but so can automobiles"

Sheep - "Why do you need to have one?"

Self - "I choose to take responsibility for my own safety"

Sheep - "Isn't that what police are for?"

Self - "Do you know what can happen inside even 2 minutes of response time?"

Sheep - "But - surely all you have to do is what you are told?"

Self - "And - if they are going to shoot you anyways - what then?"

Sheep - "Hmmm - hadn't thought of that"

Self - "Do you carry a spare tire in your car"

Sheep - "Yes - of course"

Self - "Why?"

Sheep - "In case I get a flat and need it"

Self - "Would you travel without that spare?"

Sheep - "No - of course I wouldn't"

Self - "So - you plan for the worst then?"

Sheep - "Yes" - beginning to see cerebral cogs turning.

Self - "Is this gun I carry so much different then?"

Sheep - "Uh - no I suppose not"

Self - "So - am I being paranoid?"

Sheep - "Guess not"

QED!!!
 
P95 that was some logical pwnage if I have ever seen any.

Medgrl if you want to get a CCW get one, I wish it was easier for the state I live it, doesnt make me feel much safer, bad things still happen but atleast I would not have to rely on anyone else for my own protection, if your friends have difficulties understanding this tell them what P95 told them thats the best I have heard yet.
 
Concealed carry should make you more cautious than you would otherwise be.
Click to expand...
Yes, it should. Carrying a weapon that has the power to end someone's life is a sobering thing.

I think some people carry yet they never really appreciate the true nature of what they carry. The same thing, however, goes for driving your automobile down the road. It, too, is a very dangerous, indeed deadly thing. Yet, people who understand it's power for destruction do not drive it at 100 MPH down the wrong lane. People who appreciate that power are cautious with it.

I have a feeling you will do fine if you carry. Carrying a gun though, is not a thing to discuss among friends. Nobody needs to know, except a LEO on official business, if that is the law in your state.
 
Concealed carry should make you more cautiouse than you would otherwise be. Am I wrong in that?
Click to expand...

You are not wrong, although carrying isn’t what makes you more cautious. You're aware of the fact that danger is real and unpredictable. You've accepted this fact instead of denying it. Having accepted the fact, you should be more cautious than if you had denied the fact and pretended that danger could never visit you. In response to this knowledge you add the ability to defend yourself to your understanding that avoiding danger is the first step in being safer and using the handgun is the last step. It's this understanding that results in the greater caution and the adoption of the means to protect yourself if all else fails.
 
One of the best bits of advice that gets thrown around to new CCWers is:

Never go anyplace armed you would not go unarmed.
 
Concealed carry should make you more cautiouse than you would otherwise be. Am I wrong in that? I don't think so but I value the opinions of members here at THR. What do you all think?
---------------------------------

MedGrl,

You are precisely correct. And your replies were well put, I hope your friend understands more about the subject now than before.

Take a look at http://www.corneredcat.com/Social/WhyCarry.htm if you haven't seen it already. You might want to show your friend this site too, it's done by THR member pax ( http://www.corneredcat.com ).

hth,

lpl/nc
 
No. You are right. When I was a young man, I used to study Jiu-Jitsu, and was very confident in my fighting abilities. I was, therefore, much less likely to back down when challenged. After I started carrying a handgun my attitude shifted completely the other way around. I realized that anything that escalated into a physical confrontation could mean someone gets shot, so I became much more likely to attempt to defuse such situations, or avoid them entirely. I think that's pretty common when you start carrying.

As for why one carries, the answer is easy. There are dangers in the world against which a handgun is effective protection, and can save your life. Handguns are easy to carry all the time. It's what they were designed for. You'd have to be brainwashed against guns not to want to carry one for this reason. Just like you'd have to be irrational not to wear snake boots in an area where venomous snakes are common.
 
There's no question that I tend to be more conservative in word and deed when I'm carrying.

I also find that when I carry, I am more relaxed in certain situations than I would be if I was unarmed. For example, when I'm hiking with my wife and encounter other people (particularly single men) on the trail, I don't have to be quite as leery as I might if I was unarmed.

CC is just an insurance policy you hope you never need to cash.
 
+1 to what has been said. You have to be MORE careful and more willing to back down, or run away in the face of danger. It's kind of odd how we spend so much time and money training and preparing for something we hope never happens (well at least from a self defense aspect. Most of us just love to shoot too).
I think it just shocks some people to see civilians who are willing to take responsibility for their own safety, it blows their mind and makes them uncomfortable.
If you were a cop she wouldn't think a thing of it. Even though you may train more and be more competent with a firearm than 90% of the LEO's in your city.
 
A lot of people feel "safe enough" without a gun and just can't imagine someone "needing" to carry one. So they fill in the reasons with imagination. Paranoid, looking to shoot somebody, macho, etc. Usually they just haven't thought it out. It's up to us to challange those imaginitive assumptions with reasoned debate and a good example, as you did. Thanks, good job.
 
It's often a good technique to quickly turn the conversation around. Rather than answering their questions, start asking questions of them.

Gently. With sensitivity.

The goal is to HELP the person discover the truth for himself or herself. Not to MAKE them admit that you are right.

Use phrases such as "Have you considered . . ."

"You may not be aware . . . "

And if you get the "Won't you go into more dangerous areas . . . " questions, and such, you can always ask, "Would YOU go to dangerous places just because you had pepper spray? That would not be responsible nor would it be safe, would it?"

Of course, there are people who are basically bullies, and they feel that they get a pass to be rude when the subject is guns. Sometimes you can tone it down and even turn them around if you meet the rudeness with even more manners.

Sometimes not. <grin>
 
My attitude is quite simple. Being armed merely provides one more option when you've run out of options while being unarmed. It doesn't allow you to suddenly get stupid. The cost of using a firearm even in legitimate is horrific. Only an idiot would engage in reckless behavior simply because they are packing. I can't speak for WV, but NC's CCH course (required) spends fully half of available instruction time on the law concerning use of force. Knowing the cost of a shooting even under righteous conditions is a strong restraint on behavior.
 
Can you think of any place more safe from violence than a small child's one room school house in rural America?
Sure, one place, a small children's school house in Amish America.
'Nuff said.
 
Friend: Well...would you be willing to take more risks or do things you normaly wouldn't do without having a gun with you...Like walking down a dark alley alone?
Click to expand...

Would you intentionaly drive over a nail studded board just because you know you have a spare tire in the trunk?

Spare tires (and handguns) are for situations that you don't expect or can't avoid.
 
The difference is that most concealed weapons carriers have considered the moral and legal ramifications and responsibilities of what they are doing, and have gone through a lot of training and head scenarios. They also have at least a modicum of knowledge about the weapons they carry.

On the other hand, those that have not seriously considered carrying weapons have little to no information or knowledge about weapons, or the legality and moral implications involved. They base their choices and opinions on the sparse and sometimes false information that they have heard in passing. They are usually blind to the fact that they know very little about the subject.

For most of them it will take more time than you may think to convince them, if you even can. They must be open, be willing to admit they need more factual information, and be willing to spend the time and effort to learn. Since they have never seriously considered carrying a weapon, they may not want to make the effort it takes to become informed, and reconsider their conclusions.

Everybody is different, you never know, all you can do is try.
 
Concealed carry has made me calmer and more willing to back down from confrontation. While the knowledge that I hold the power of life and death over another makes me evaluate my actions in any confrontation more closely and more responsibly, the knowledge that if some street punk decides to take my deference for weakness he/they may be making a fatal mistake is calming in itself.
Backing down is not a sign of weakness or surrender if you back down to protect the aggressor.
 
"Well...would you be willing to take more risks or do things you normaly wouldn't do without having a gun with you...Like walking down a dark alley alone?"
Yes. Absolutely... if you're a criminal. The people your friends are describing can be found in jails.
I think there must be a disconnect about how you get a CHL/CCW. I guess people believe you get it the same way you sign up to vote. You pass background checks, tests over the laws, a range test.
The best way to answer a question is with another question - ask them if they think you're some sort of comic book vigilante because you'd prefer to avoid rape/robbery/murder.
A CC'er doesn't carry so he can kill people legally... the only difference between a CC'er who shoots somebody in self defense while outside the home and somebody without a license for it who shoots somebody is that the non-licensee is liable to face prosecution for illegal carrying of a handgun in addition to any other charges. You have no more right to shoot people than the Good Humor man - you just won't get charged for illegal carry on top of murder/manslaughter/whatever.
 
My experience is much the same as others. I'm much more aware of my surroundings. Not to get into trouble, but to stay out of it. Road rage just isn't an option when carrying.

The owner of the company I work for told my general manager, "you know what happens when you carry a gun? You use it!" He made this statement as a matter of fact, secure in his undeniable wisdom concerning handguns. I wonder what he would say if he found out that he has never seen me unarmed. I even carried to my employment interview. I don't want to say anything to him for fear he'd implement a no carry rule.

The good news is that the GM mentioned above has become my shooting buddy and I think he's going to get a carry permit too.
 
The owner of the company I work for told my general manager, "you know what happens when you carry a gun? You use it!" He made this statement as a matter of fact, secure in his undeniable wisdom concerning handguns.
Click to expand...

You should tell him to watch Band of Brothers. Maj. Winters disagrees.
 
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