I'm concerned for my Daughter's safety and she is completely against even looking at a gun. Both my wife and I have concealed carry permits, and guns have been around the house ever since she was a little girl. She has brow beat her husband into submission on the subject too. She lives in the Kansas City Mo area and frequents the zoos there with our 16 months old daughter and of course all of the malls. I've tried everything I know to change her point of view. Anyone else here have this situation? Thanks
Daughter anti-gun
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If you were anti-gun, maybe she'd be more pro-gun? j/k
Trying to brow-beat her into accepting a gun as a form of protection is probably only going to make her dig in her heels and be even more stubborn. She may have an irrational fear of them, or is concerned for the 16-month old's safety. Trying to point that out is only going to make it worse.
For now you're probably better off suggesting pepper spray. Not sure how old she is, I am probably closer to her age than your age, but from my (youngish person) perspective, during this age of 20's/early 30's, the WORST thing is when my parents try to tell me how to live. It isn't the same as teenage rebellion, it is more like, I have been living on my own for 10+ years, I can handle making my own decisions. And your daughter probably can too. A gun is not a catch-all solution for everyone. If she is so anti right now, she definitely wouldn't practice, even if you convinced her to carry one or keep one in the home, it wouldn't do much good. Sometimes people just have to arrive at the right solution on their own.
Of course if you happened to email her a link or two occasionally to stories such as this, it couldn't hurt.
Trying to brow-beat her into accepting a gun as a form of protection is probably only going to make her dig in her heels and be even more stubborn. She may have an irrational fear of them, or is concerned for the 16-month old's safety. Trying to point that out is only going to make it worse.
For now you're probably better off suggesting pepper spray. Not sure how old she is, I am probably closer to her age than your age, but from my (youngish person) perspective, during this age of 20's/early 30's, the WORST thing is when my parents try to tell me how to live. It isn't the same as teenage rebellion, it is more like, I have been living on my own for 10+ years, I can handle making my own decisions. And your daughter probably can too. A gun is not a catch-all solution for everyone. If she is so anti right now, she definitely wouldn't practice, even if you convinced her to carry one or keep one in the home, it wouldn't do much good. Sometimes people just have to arrive at the right solution on their own.
Of course if you happened to email her a link or two occasionally to stories such as this, it couldn't hurt.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Probably a bullet-proof vest would be a better investment then a gun.
Cause they got way bigger guns then she would have!
Just getting to the K.C. Zoo takes you through the heart of east K.C.'s gangbanger heaven.
You can get caught in the crossfire just driving down Gregory Blvd to get there.
rc
I think you pretty much nailed it on a lot of points. And.... looking back, we paid for 5 years at the University of Missouri Columbia and she truly did come back much more "liberal" than when she started so that may be part of it.
I do appreciate the advice from the younger generation. Thanks again
I do appreciate the advice from the younger generation. Thanks again
chris in va
Member
Some people just live in a bubble. I see it every day, nothing bad can happen to them. They get in their Lexus or Mercedes and head to the local Whole Foods for some free range chicken breasts and pine nuts.
My GF used to make fun of me carrying. That all stopped when she read a few 'police blotters' which highlighted what really happens in the local area. She eventually got her own permit but still doesn't really see the need to carry on her person. I make sure she has my Kahr in her purse when I'm not with her.
My GF used to make fun of me carrying. That all stopped when she read a few 'police blotters' which highlighted what really happens in the local area. She eventually got her own permit but still doesn't really see the need to carry on her person. I make sure she has my Kahr in her purse when I'm not with her.
oneounceload
member
Another perfect student from the liberal standpoint, she has been indoctrinated well. There is nothing you can do about it except to force your view which will mean more alienation from her and her family. Sometimes, unfortunately, folks have to experience things for themselves first hand - hopefully it won't be something too serious
ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
Irony
You can appreciate the irony.
You paid for the brainwashing.
She now "knows" much that isn't true. Real life will be (one hopes) the process whereby she unlearns most of that crap.
I don't have any solid advice. Your family dynamic will be unique, and using mine as a model will very likely fail.
I have a family member whose data sources are all hard Left, and whose "peers" lean that way, and having to work that problem requires a very light touch. The good news is that I established a solid affection for firearms there before the peer pressure got a toehold.
My job now is bringing some enlightenment to the "social" vector so that when it comes time to vote, the affection for firearms will carry more weight than the pressure to vote for people who will try to outlaw them.
It's a slow process. If I take any other approach than "bored, matter-of-fact" I lose ground. If I offer incisive factual arguments modulated with a "disinterested" tone, with the question, "so, where you getting your facts from?" I get better traction.
One of the things I say to my kids when they come to me with weird stuff is, "you know, I hate it when smart people get fooled." And then I go for the facts. And when the facts include tidbits like, "well, so-and-so is just plain crazy," I use the relaxed approach. "Really? That's a fact? What's the source on that?" And then, following the inevitable "everybody knows," I have to remind that "generalities are a foil, and I taught you better data analysis than that."
I don't get angry or impatient. I don't deal in generalities. I ask for facts, sources, and research that they, themselves, have done.
I remind them that I don't find group think (or mob think) persuasive. Let's stick to the facts.
And if your "truth" is the result of other people's prevailing opinions, realize that that's not a process for which I have a lot of respect.
Know your own truths, have the spine to stand for them.
Popularity is fleeting. The truth will be around a lot longer.
You can appreciate the irony.
You paid for the brainwashing.
She now "knows" much that isn't true. Real life will be (one hopes) the process whereby she unlearns most of that crap.
I don't have any solid advice. Your family dynamic will be unique, and using mine as a model will very likely fail.
I have a family member whose data sources are all hard Left, and whose "peers" lean that way, and having to work that problem requires a very light touch. The good news is that I established a solid affection for firearms there before the peer pressure got a toehold.
My job now is bringing some enlightenment to the "social" vector so that when it comes time to vote, the affection for firearms will carry more weight than the pressure to vote for people who will try to outlaw them.
It's a slow process. If I take any other approach than "bored, matter-of-fact" I lose ground. If I offer incisive factual arguments modulated with a "disinterested" tone, with the question, "so, where you getting your facts from?" I get better traction.
One of the things I say to my kids when they come to me with weird stuff is, "you know, I hate it when smart people get fooled." And then I go for the facts. And when the facts include tidbits like, "well, so-and-so is just plain crazy," I use the relaxed approach. "Really? That's a fact? What's the source on that?" And then, following the inevitable "everybody knows," I have to remind that "generalities are a foil, and I taught you better data analysis than that."
I don't get angry or impatient. I don't deal in generalities. I ask for facts, sources, and research that they, themselves, have done.
I remind them that I don't find group think (or mob think) persuasive. Let's stick to the facts.
And if your "truth" is the result of other people's prevailing opinions, realize that that's not a process for which I have a lot of respect.
Know your own truths, have the spine to stand for them.
Popularity is fleeting. The truth will be around a lot longer.
Axel Larson
Member
Just as a point of view from someone who has gone to college recently not all teachers are anti gun, I had several teachers who had hunted in the past or still do.
I would try approaching it from a recreational side first take her to the range if she wants, have her try trap, long range shooting 22 steel target. or whatever you have.
I would try approaching it from a recreational side first take her to the range if she wants, have her try trap, long range shooting 22 steel target. or whatever you have.
If you go to a university in a pro gun state, go to a STEM (not biology related) department, and ask faculty about their views you'll find about the following:
50% own guns, shoot, or hunt
25% don't do those but have no problems with guns
25% are anti gun
Students would be shifted more towards anti-gun due to recent indoctrination from non-STEM courses and the lack of money to buy guns with.
Biology related subjects are an exception to the STEM fields because they tend to like animals and associate guns with hunting.
I'm basing this on a pretty small sample size, however.
50% own guns, shoot, or hunt
25% don't do those but have no problems with guns
25% are anti gun
Students would be shifted more towards anti-gun due to recent indoctrination from non-STEM courses and the lack of money to buy guns with.
Biology related subjects are an exception to the STEM fields because they tend to like animals and associate guns with hunting.
I'm basing this on a pretty small sample size, however.
Axel Larson
Member
I had several guys in my biology class who like hunting or target shooting and a woman who was into target shooting. But then Vermont has a heavy hunting culture.
Krogen
Member
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It might be a case of youthful or maternal ... (something).
I grew up where guns were just tools. Even at that, they weren't used much. Not a pro- or anti- environment. They were just there. So I had no strong feelings about them.
A few years later in high school, I learned my girlfriend's dad packed a PPK. He had been a Huey driver in 'Nam and carried a big dose of "wariness." He wouldn't sit in a room with his back to the door and he kept an eye on everything. At the time I thought he was paranoid. I couldn't see why he needed to pack a piece. Now, I understand. I admit, I'm embarrassed about the things I wrote in high school yearbooks. Save the world, help the downtrodden and all that. I wasn't (and am not now) a liberal, but I was naive and altruistic back then. Sometime in my early 20's I came around and realized guns were fun. I also lost my naivety and altruism. I grew up.
Perhaps your daughter will go down the same road. Fortunately it didn't take a catastrophic event to knock some sense into me. Despite being college "edumacated" I didn't turn left. I hope your daughter also comes around without troubles.
I grew up where guns were just tools. Even at that, they weren't used much. Not a pro- or anti- environment. They were just there. So I had no strong feelings about them.
A few years later in high school, I learned my girlfriend's dad packed a PPK. He had been a Huey driver in 'Nam and carried a big dose of "wariness." He wouldn't sit in a room with his back to the door and he kept an eye on everything. At the time I thought he was paranoid. I couldn't see why he needed to pack a piece. Now, I understand. I admit, I'm embarrassed about the things I wrote in high school yearbooks. Save the world, help the downtrodden and all that. I wasn't (and am not now) a liberal, but I was naive and altruistic back then. Sometime in my early 20's I came around and realized guns were fun. I also lost my naivety and altruism. I grew up.
Perhaps your daughter will go down the same road. Fortunately it didn't take a catastrophic event to knock some sense into me. Despite being college "edumacated" I didn't turn left. I hope your daughter also comes around without troubles.
Blade First
Member
You're missing the obvious ... due to sheer frustration, I expect.
Ask her what she'd do if, while traveling with your grandaughter, they are put at risk by a local thug. Would she call the police?
If so, what would the first officer to arrive be carrying and ready to wield?
She has an obligation to her daughter to defend her ... with her own life if necessary. It's what a real parent would do, and no amount of ignorance or stupidity is excusable if she isn't prepared with the best tools available.
And, of course, *the* very best tool is a firearm.
Ask her what she'd do if, while traveling with your grandaughter, they are put at risk by a local thug. Would she call the police?
If so, what would the first officer to arrive be carrying and ready to wield?
She has an obligation to her daughter to defend her ... with her own life if necessary. It's what a real parent would do, and no amount of ignorance or stupidity is excusable if she isn't prepared with the best tools available.
And, of course, *the* very best tool is a firearm.
Reloadron
Contributing Member
I think we have pretty much established that for the better part today's universities (as well as lower education) have become a bastion for liberal thinking where the anti gun agenda is pushed. Send them to school for reading, writing and arithmetic and get so much more back.
Since this is a given in most cases discussing it in great detail won't solve the original poster's problem.
Relaxing feels his daughter should be at least giving some thought to carrying a gun and she in turn is pretty anti gun. My feeling is that trying to push her towards the gun will only result in her (and her family) developing more rejection of the gun as well as those pushing her towards it. This becomes a no win situation all around within a family.
Since at this point there is apparently no way this young adult is about to consider a gun let's set the gun aside and shoot for (pun intended) compromise. Relaxing, if I were you I would back off on the gun issue and refocus on some basic education. I am sure your daughter knows you love her and you are concerned not just for her well being but that of her family. Beyond firearms training there is other self defense training that involves the importance of surroundings. Knowing what the hell is going on around you. Years ago, (well over a decade ago) long before Ohio allowed concealed carry my wife took a one day seminar presented by Ms. Paxton Quigley (read about her here). The idea was not to come away "Armed and Female" but to come away more aware of your surroundings. Kathy (my wife) learned a lot in that day. I would compromise and ask her to at least attend a safety seminar with an open mind.
Your daughter seems to know what is best for her family and you also knowing what is best for her family won't fly at this point in time. You will attract more flies with honey than with vinegar. Start slowly and work from there. That would be my suggestion for now.
Just My Take
Ron
Since this is a given in most cases discussing it in great detail won't solve the original poster's problem.
Relaxing feels his daughter should be at least giving some thought to carrying a gun and she in turn is pretty anti gun. My feeling is that trying to push her towards the gun will only result in her (and her family) developing more rejection of the gun as well as those pushing her towards it. This becomes a no win situation all around within a family.
Since at this point there is apparently no way this young adult is about to consider a gun let's set the gun aside and shoot for (pun intended) compromise. Relaxing, if I were you I would back off on the gun issue and refocus on some basic education. I am sure your daughter knows you love her and you are concerned not just for her well being but that of her family. Beyond firearms training there is other self defense training that involves the importance of surroundings. Knowing what the hell is going on around you. Years ago, (well over a decade ago) long before Ohio allowed concealed carry my wife took a one day seminar presented by Ms. Paxton Quigley (read about her here). The idea was not to come away "Armed and Female" but to come away more aware of your surroundings. Kathy (my wife) learned a lot in that day. I would compromise and ask her to at least attend a safety seminar with an open mind.
Your daughter seems to know what is best for her family and you also knowing what is best for her family won't fly at this point in time. You will attract more flies with honey than with vinegar. Start slowly and work from there. That would be my suggestion for now.
Just My Take
Ron
The Lone Haranguer
Member
She is an adult now and free to make her own decisions. You did all you could.
Couple of thoughts
There are many ways to persuade her to be more aware of her surroundings.
Don't beat her over the head with it. Let her come to it on her own. If you want to make her less anti gun, invite her to join you shooting .22 rimfires. It so much fun, it is likely cause some cognitive dissonance.
I regularly clash with my mom (been out of the house long enough so it shouldn't happen) over a number of issues and lately have been working to change our relationship with new boundaries so I don't have to re-fight the same battles.
Good luck!
There are many ways to persuade her to be more aware of her surroundings.
Don't beat her over the head with it. Let her come to it on her own. If you want to make her less anti gun, invite her to join you shooting .22 rimfires. It so much fun, it is likely cause some cognitive dissonance.
I regularly clash with my mom (been out of the house long enough so it shouldn't happen) over a number of issues and lately have been working to change our relationship with new boundaries so I don't have to re-fight the same battles.
Good luck!
What you're doing now isn't working so the best thing is to try something else. She's an adult who is raising her own family and doesn't need someone else trying to run her life. Instead it might be best if you left her alone for a while and gather some real meaningful information about crime rates in the areas she frequents. Not vague "be prepared", but real street by street information from the DA or PD.
You may learn that she sticks to very safe areas where making an argument for carry is at the very least going to be difficult OR you may marshal enough facts to give to her that she'll avoid the less safe areas and be safer for it. Heck, if the zoo is in a high crime area then she should stop going to the zoo unless it is an island of PD presence. If the easiest route is through a high crime area map out the routes that don't expose her to the hazards of that area. Point out the real dangers, offer ways to avoid them and let her mind work on that. It is better to avoid the danger areas than depend upon a handgun to somehow magically ward off danger, isn't it?
Try to think back to when she ever had an interest in carrying and when she stopped. What was going on around that time that might have put her off. Some friend killed? Schoolmate? If she never had an interest then she's not likely to develop one until she has some life-changing event convince her that it is time to carry.
Blaming college is empty headed. As parents we have 18 years to shape and mold our children. A random assortment of college professors have mere hours. If our're lifetime of influence can be countered by a few hours of countering by a near stranger, we've not done a very good job as parents. No, I'd look for a combination of things instead of just trying to point blame somewhere else.
You may learn that she sticks to very safe areas where making an argument for carry is at the very least going to be difficult OR you may marshal enough facts to give to her that she'll avoid the less safe areas and be safer for it. Heck, if the zoo is in a high crime area then she should stop going to the zoo unless it is an island of PD presence. If the easiest route is through a high crime area map out the routes that don't expose her to the hazards of that area. Point out the real dangers, offer ways to avoid them and let her mind work on that. It is better to avoid the danger areas than depend upon a handgun to somehow magically ward off danger, isn't it?
Try to think back to when she ever had an interest in carrying and when she stopped. What was going on around that time that might have put her off. Some friend killed? Schoolmate? If she never had an interest then she's not likely to develop one until she has some life-changing event convince her that it is time to carry.
Blaming college is empty headed. As parents we have 18 years to shape and mold our children. A random assortment of college professors have mere hours. If our're lifetime of influence can be countered by a few hours of countering by a near stranger, we've not done a very good job as parents. No, I'd look for a combination of things instead of just trying to point blame somewhere else.
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beatledog7
Member
You can not change the "mind" of a person on an issue which she sees in emotional terms. Apparently this is the case with your daughter.
JTHunter
Member
Relaxing - you have my sympathy on 2 counts - UM-COL and its "brainwashing" as another poster said, and having paid for it.
My niece went to U of ILL and is in a 'burb of Sacremento with her first due early next year. Her parents and I have the same concerns as you.
My niece went to U of ILL and is in a 'burb of Sacremento with her first due early next year. Her parents and I have the same concerns as you.
SleazyRider
Member
Everyone must walk their own path.
There could be a more definite reason why your daughter is anti-gun. You may be seeing only the overt reaction.
Regardless, as already mentioned, when children grow up they lead their own lives. Not much you can do about that. You can make your case, but ultimately it may be best to butt-out.
Just wondering what your son-in-law's views on how he would protect his family. I gather he has a say in their dynamic too.
Regardless, as already mentioned, when children grow up they lead their own lives. Not much you can do about that. You can make your case, but ultimately it may be best to butt-out.
Just wondering what your son-in-law's views on how he would protect his family. I gather he has a say in their dynamic too.
JERRY
Member
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- 3,840
well, she has to make her own choices and youve tried to give her a good foundation on which to choose. she must live with her coices. as for her husband, he seems a bit metro-manish if he let his wife brow beat him into not carrying a gun to defend his family....
bikerdoc
Moderator In Memoriam
My son was raised around guns, A good shot and enjoyed our shooting time together.
He fought in Iraq, and now is teaching on the college level in NJ. His interest has waned over the years, and he about to get married.
I figure it is just his busy life cycle phase and he will be back in the fold soon.
He fought in Iraq, and now is teaching on the college level in NJ. His interest has waned over the years, and he about to get married.
I figure it is just his busy life cycle phase and he will be back in the fold soon.
danez71
Member
SharpsDressedMan
member
Adopt the son; leave the daughter out of the will.
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