Daughter anti-gun

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Take her out and start over. As Bill Cosby would say.

Isolated crime is not so isolated when it happens to someone you know. You can try forwarding her all the crime reports that happen in the area. Large city like KC won't be too hard to narrow down.
 
I've quit trying to "convert" people who have their mind made up already on any particular subject.

I just leave them with my usual, "Let me know if I can help."

If they care what I think, they will come to me.
Until then, the world will be their teacher.
Unless I understood incorrectly the lessons the world dealt me, the others will eventually receive those same lessons.

What they take from it depends on their orientation and intelligence - neither of which I can influence in any material way.
 
We live on the Kansas side and know all too well which parts of KC,MO & KC,KS to avoid. Someone gets shot and it's "another shooting". Especially since the police are in a can't win situation regarding neighborhood violence. I agree with the other posters about being too direct. Maybe offhand comments about crime in the area and innocent bystanders getting shot.

My girls are adults also (not pro-gun but not anti-gun either) and stay out of the worst parts of town. It is pretty bad when we're concerned about going to the Plaza or Westport on a Friday or Saturday night.

Good luck to you.
 
Let me briefly share my wife's story and maybe it will help you. She went through the Texas system to get a CHL and passed everything but wouldn't send in her paperwork because she said she didn't think she could actually shoot another person, even if she needed to. I let it lay and then one day she was almost car-jacked by an escaped criminal who had already shot his ex-girlfriend and beat up a female deputy. She saw the whole thing and had to go to the SO and give a statement. I didn't say anything except if it had of been me instead of her, I would have perferated the guy. A little time later she got to thinking about it and went and took the course again and this time she mailed the paperwork. She now carries when ever she is on the road or otherwise needs to. It is sad it took such an event to convince her but it did the job and the result was the same.

Sometimes it takes unususal events to wake people up to what is really going on around them. I hope your daughter never faces such events but if she does, she will change her mind in a hurry. I have one grandson and I assure you, if anyone messes with him, my wife will hurt you really bad. Then its my turn.
 
She needs to log on to the Cornered Cat website. An intelligent woman will explain the world to her and get her to begin thinking about self defense.(and defense of loved ones) My wife refused to carry a gun until some guy tried to get into her hotel room one night in Chicago. Security threw him out and HE CAME BACK! That turned her mind right around.
 
For everyone concerned, I hope she survives the event that changes her heart, mind, and attitude. I know a gun does not equal guaranteed survival...It mayhowever, give that bit of a chance that makes the differance.

We can hope.

Mark
 
Let me guess, lives in Brookside? 63rd to the Swope Park Zoo entrtypes
Brooksides a nice little pocket of "Johnson County" nestled up close to the big urban underbelly of carpet bomb me now KCMO....
Well, excepting the rapist they had not to long ago.
Honestly probably not a lot going to happen. Its in a hell hole 'hood to be sure but Ive no qualms taking my two single digit aged children there.
The problem types seem to be very aware of the odd little random "don't get to play" here zones. The zoo is one of these.
Ive a friend or two with the Kcmo PD and this discussion often comes up.
Don't really know why.
Obviously crap happens everywhere at any time so please don't get the wrong impression.
I believe everyone of age and legallity should carry.
My daughter is currently young enough so daddy is still akin to God.
Ive a couple friends with older girls though and I understand it goes to hell soon enough.
Through early 20's even, so I'm gleefully told.
Sounds like that's what your up against.
Sorry, no real advice that has not been mentioned but keep trying, maybe through KC Star clippings of crimes? Waldo area scumbag springs to mind.
Realize some people just may not want to carry a gun, like my wife for example.
Been of victum of crime in her late teenage years yet its a no go topic for her.
Best of luck.
Its nice to see a polar bear that's not been dyed green by algea though, yes?
Cheers.
 
Some people just live in a bubble. I see it every day, nothing bad can happen to them. They get in their Lexus or Mercedes and head to the local Whole Foods for some free range chicken breasts and pine nuts.

My GF used to make fun of me carrying. That all stopped when she read a few 'police blotters' which highlighted what really happens in the local area. She eventually got her own permit but still doesn't really see the need to carry on her person. I make sure she has my Kahr in her purse when I'm not with her.
I fail to see the correlation between having a nice car and eating good food and thinking nothing bad can happen to you .
 
I fail to see the correlation between having a nice car and eating good food and thinking nothing bad can happen to you .

When you live in a "nice neighborhood" it's easy to believe that violence and "bad things" all happen "over there" in some other part of town.

When I lived in Las Vegas, my wife was lobbying for a move into one of those "nicer" neighborhoods (you know, the ones whose garages and curbs host cars that most of us can't afford) around the time when Steve Wynn's kid was kidnapped. From one of those "nicer" neighborhoods.

She was confused.

I said, "look, how long does it take us to drive across town?" She responded that it might take fifteen or twenty minutes. And I replied, "so, you are never more than fifteen minutes from the nearest ghetto." The security of gated communities is largely false. The gates keep out the honest people and the lazy crooks. The more committed bad hats who are more serious about their work will simply add neighborhood security to their risk/reward formula.

I knew any number of people who drove "that car" and lived in "that neighborhood" and weren't worried, because "we live in a nice part of town." Just fifteen minutes from that part of town they mostly try to avoid.

It's amazing what a coat of paint will do for your sense of security.

 
I Take Offense at That!!!

How dare you (all) for your condemnation of my esteemed and beloved Alma Mater--Bite your tongues :fire:!

Lol--Seriously though, it pains me dearly as a Mizzou Alumni to see the leftist spin in all aspects of the academia @Columbia (College Town) as a whole. Believe me, as a Poli Sci Grad I know from where I speak as I never, in four years, had a single Professor that did not espouse at the very least Liberalism 101 and at the very worst extreme outright Marxism/Leninism.

But I digress--as far as a member of the family that, subsequent to her "education" or indoctrination, is anti-gun (imagine that) I would introduce her to some of the very fine female shooters found on YouTube. My ex watched these and I found them to be instrumental in "changing" her initial perspective regarding firearms (and eventually politics as well). Give it a shot and good luck as we need all the support we can get (and she needs to be safe).
 
It is good to hear stories about close calls as tragic as they are. The problem with close calls is far too many cases aren't close calls, I am not trying to sound like a fear monger but taking a realistic stance. My wife started carrying because 4 women in a week in downtown Birmingham were either raped or attempted rape cases. Before that a drug dealer and COP KILLER knocked on the back door of the house asking to be let in when the police were looking for him. By that time she had her CCW license. People who are in some way waiting for an instance to wake them up to carry end up being a statistic, sad but true. I just hope it doesn't happen to the THR.

Speaking of college, I have different stories than everyone else. I went through my first weapon courses at college. As part of the curriculum. But then again that is what I get when I go to a military school.
 
I would hate to be her husband but on the other hand, I don`t think "brow" beating would go every far with me.
There are folks who don`t care for guns. So be it. If there is no middle ground to be found....... Sad state of affairs.
 
I have female family members who don't carry. Sure, i would prefer they did but realistically in my area the chances of a woman, especially one not involved in questionable activities, being assaulted or killed are pretty slim so i keep things in perspective. I'm sure if i could find quite a few things i would wish they did different to make themselves more safe.
 
I think you would have more success if you tried introducing firearms to her as just a fun activity at first. Invite her out to a nice informal range (something without too many silly rules for her to feel overwhelmed by) and just have her shoot some watermelons and other fun reactive targets. The self defense mindset will follow much easier from there.

Pushing the whole serious self defense thing on a new shooter right away is likely to just make them shy away from firearms altogether.

The important thing is just getting her to a range. Even the staunchest antis tent to change their mind once they first squeeze the trigger. It just makes something click in a person. Make it fun, don't hand her a gun and say "You have to carry this at ALL times and you have to be ready to shoot 'em IN THE FACE!!"

As far as self defense goes, this would be a nice read to drop in her inbox once you get her accustomed to shooting.
http://www.rkba.org/comment/cowards.html
Particularly the first four sections up to and including "Power and Responsibility" cover some moral and ethical issues of self defense.
I admit, I'm embarrassed about the things I wrote in high school yearbooks. Save the world, help the downtrodden and all that. I wasn't (and am not now) a liberal, but I was naive and altruistic back then. Sometime in my early 20's I came around and realized guns were fun. I also lost my naivety and altruism. I grew up.

I don't see how wanting to help people is anything to be embarrassed about. Helping the less fortunate and downtrodden is not some liberal commie sin. It's something any decent human being should try to do when they can. The self reliance and responsibility that most conservatives preach is not to be confused with kicking that hungry bum tot he gutter and letting him starve while yelling "get a job".
 
Listen, as a student in one of the most Liberal Political Correctness gone rampant colleges, I'd like to offer my point of view.

A very high proportion of professors at most colleges, asides from places like Hillsdale (Those guys are disturbing) are Liberals. I'd estimate that the average professor at my college is between 40-50 years old and probably grew up in suburbs or cities. If they're at an urban school, then it's a foregone conclusion that many professors will be local city folk. Considering the generations, as well as the draw of Liberals to academia and pedagogy, very few of the professors are likely to have grown up in gun households. And with the large amount of synergism among similarly-minded people, those who arrive neutral or ambivalent typically get swayed to the anti side. It means that your daughter wasn't fully convinced either way when she got to school.

When I've had a chance to evaluate the 2A attitudes of university staff, the representation is overwhelmingly anti. While the majority is quiet, although has anti tendencies, the loudest antis make up a significant proportion of the population. And being a university professor is a very political job, and the desire for harmony keeps would-be gun advocates from voicing themselves. The backlash for resisting can be harsh. What annoys me about supposedly "open-minded" societies is that "open-minded" has meanings more along the lines of "you should think what I think." Speaking out with contrary opinions is a very good way to get shut down in a hurry.

College is about the worst possible place for a gunny to be. A large proportion of the students for schools that aren't agricultural are from Urban and suburban areas, and thanks to their huge populations, anti states such as New York, New Jersey, and California are always well-represented. And thanks to the Clery Act passed after the VTech massacre, colleges are required to take action if anyone says that they think that someone poses a security threat. This makes it nearly impossible for gun advocates to operate because if they try to say anything, then they are likely looking at a visit from the campus PD. If anything motivates the private sector to do anything, it's fear of losing money. Due to this climate of paranoia and fear, anti arguments are much more easily entertained and dissent made nearly impossible.

The best fix for an anti is a heavy dose of trigger time. I've never seen nor heard of an anti who couldn't at least find us sympathetic after a fun range session. Don't even bring up defense for the first several trips. Colleges do a wonderful job of conflating victimhood with virtue. I have yet to see a discussion about the ethics of violence, or anything involving conflict that didn't eventually get reduced to making one party totally passive so that there couldn't be any disagreement. Look up the "Green Dot" program if you want to see what I'm getting at.

Now a college education is not something to be snubbed over political ideology or due to gun rights. It's quite important to go to school and earn your degree. It's a mark of distinction for a job seeker as it sets them apart for most others in the country. College grads tend to be employed, paid more, retained for longer, and promoted to higher positions than non-graduates. Over the course of a working lifetime, a college degree will typically pay for itself several times over. Just don't major in 12'th century English poetry and then wonder why nobody will hire you.
 
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thanks for reminding me of my pledge....

I will not participate in funding either of the following....

1. Advanced education that does not equip the student with "skills" that are suitable for getting a "real" job.

2. Advanced education at an insitution that is a known bastion of liberalism.


I'd rather fund a nursing degree at a community college night school program (with working students who don't have time or patience for a lot of cr@p) than invest 2 cents in an ivy league "education" (aka. indoctrination).

We're encouraging our daughters to take school seriously now (they are straight 'A' students) so they can get academic scholarships and talking up schools that have solid conservative creds.

We're also doing our best to teach them to think critically for themselves. And to poke holes into statements that don't hold water.

None the less.... I know that we could lose them. So I need to be diligent to PRAY... for their intelectual as well as physical safety.
 
In regards to the daughters point of view, the question of how it came to be and what she formed it around becomes really important as confronting the problem is going to involve dealing with that. I would start with figuring that out and once it is known it can be deconstructed. This is something I've generally found works nicely when it comes to dealing with some one's phobia in regards to a tool or technology.

With that said, I've seen the word "liberal" thrown around a bit in this thread. The concept of gun control interesting enough is at complete odds with liberalism.

Generally I find it is good to leave the terms "liberal", "conservative", "social conservative", "left", or "right" out of many debates are they are not actually relevant to many debates and their misuse only serves to create divide.
 
The only person you can control is you. Most people go their entire lives w/o being involved in a life threatening defensive situation. It wasn't self defense that allured me into guns, it was the recreation aspect. Like anything, the person has to like it to do it.

Sometimes I sit in traffic and wonder why ppl drive boring cars or hybrids. How can something like a V8, high rpms and turbochargers not be interesting to everyone? They just don't like it...cars are just A to B transport for many people.

Same can be said that most people do not have a need or experience with a gun...hence they don't want one.
 
+1

"Generally I find it is good to leave the terms "liberal", "conservative", "social conservative", "left", or "right" out of many debates are they are not actually relevant to many debates and their misuse only serves to create divide."
-Well said, sir; and this is why I like being on The High Road.
 
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Ask her to do you one small favor. Ask her to take 5 minutes, place a photo of her baby near the computer and do an internet search using the following keywords;

Channon Christian
Beverly Hope Melton
Endang Susiani

There are thousands more. And tell her to bring a box of tissues before she starts reading.
 
When you live in a "nice neighborhood" it's easy to believe that violence and "bad things" all happen "over there" in some other part of town.

When I lived in Las Vegas, my wife was lobbying for a move into one of those "nicer" neighborhoods (you know, the ones whose garages and curbs host cars that most of us can't afford) around the time when Steve Wynn's kid was kidnapped. From one of those "nicer" neighborhoods.

She was confused.

I said, "look, how long does it take us to drive across town?" She responded that it might take fifteen or twenty minutes. And I replied, "so, you are never more than fifteen minutes from the nearest ghetto." The security of gated communities is largely false. The gates keep out the honest people and the lazy crooks. The more committed bad hats who are more serious about their work will simply add neighborhood security to their risk/reward formula.

I knew any number of people who drove "that car" and lived in "that neighborhood" and weren't worried, because "we live in a nice part of town." Just fifteen minutes from that part of town they mostly try to avoid.

It's amazing what a coat of paint will do for your sense of security.

Not trying to derail this thread, really.

But the idea that people have a false sense of security in a nicer, gated community is IMHO, a fallicy. Sure, violent crime can happen anywhere, but you can statistically prove that you are less likely to be a victim of violent crime in a nice neighborhood, than in the Ghetto.

Your Winn analogy is false. Steve Wynns daughter, was kidnapped from her townhome, Not the Wynn Residence, because she was targeted, by calculating, and committed (however, very stupid) criminals because of the ransom opportunity. Had you lived across town, or in the same complex as her, the probability of your wife, becoming kidnapped instead, is virtually the same, unless of course your net worth is similar to Steve Wynn's, AND public known. Astronomically low.

Living in a wealthy, gated community, with a security system, etc, reduces the sample size of criminals who believe the risk/reward is enough, have the technical know how and commitment to pull off a crime in that type of environment.

You are about 1,000% more likely to be a victim of violent crime in Camden, NJ, than Aspen, CO. It' simple staistics. The fact is, unfortunatelly, bad things DO happen more frequently "over there in that neighborhood".
Bad things can happen anywhere, but if you practice situational awareness and position yourself to not be "the wrong place at the wrong time", you have significantly decreased your exposure.

It amazes me how many people ask "what kind of gun should I have on my bedside table", instead of "how should I make my perimeter safer". If you see "that blob at the foot of the bed" your entire security plan has failed and you are in a no win situation.

To get back to the OP, if you daughter is anti-gun, regardless of the reason. I would focus less on trying to scare her into arming herself (which could turn out to be worse for her in the wrong situation), and focus more on situational awareness, common sense, and self defense.
 
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