Ever listen in on other people's gun conversations?

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As long as we're rationalizing, stats for the various wars indicate the more rounds a weapon is capable of firing the lower the hit percentage. So...the less powerful/more rounds vs. more powerful/less rounds would be a wash.
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My guess is those stats relate to rifles. Something tells me that wars are not fought with pistols. But just in case you are right I bet the reason that more bullets are misses is because soldiers are practicing a well known and useful technique called suppression. If you can suppress your enemy then you win. If your enemy can suppress you because you don't have enough ammo to suppress him then you lose. Glock still wins.
 
I have to add... sometimes gun salesmen are the best stand up comics in the world or the least qualified people in the room.

I was in one of our biggest gun showrooms in the state the other day. Got to witness a well intentioned sales man trying to sell an IWB for a PPK to a customer... the customer was so befuddled trying to get his gun reholstered into a little rough out clip on holster he dropped trou in the aisle. The sales guy never missed a beat ---
 
lions said:
Yeah, but have you ever noticed that when a person is talking about guns, the volume of their voice is almost always inversely proportional to their firearm knowledge? Now some people just talk loudly, but I've yet to see a person who is spouting firearm misinformation use their inside voice.
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Big +1 on that point!

Honestly, whether we want to admit it or not, we've all overheard other people's conversations in public places. It isn't for the sake of being rude, it's just the way things are in crowded places.

The situations that annoy me the most are the ones where I hear a person who works at a gun store giving bad advice to a customer who is obviously a new shooter. These customers are viewing that employee as an expert because, compared to them, they might be. More often than not, this bad advice comes in the form of absolutes:

"Glocks are the only guns you should ever consider carrying for self defense"

"Anything bigger than a 9mm is WAY too much for a female shooter"

"Anyone who doesn't carry a .45ACP is a fool. The 9mm couldn't stop a mouse"

"The .45ACP guarantees that the person you shoot will drop right there".

"A glock/revolver/sig/springfield/etc won't ever jam"

"The government passed a law that will require primer manufacturers to make primers that will go bad in ten years or less"



ArizonaJohn said:
Sometimes the wife and I go into Cabella's on a busy Sunday afternoon and talk to each other in kinda loud voices about guns and we make up the most outrageous stuff we can think of before we start laughing...just to see if anyone will take the bait.

Last Sunday I was telling her about the Savage side-by-side-over-under shotgun I heard was coming out. 4 barrels of fun!

Hey...it's cheaper than going to the movies.
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That sounds like something I might find myself doing :)

I work as a police officer, and once visited a local gun shop with one of my coworkers. We were standing at the gun counter while two local thugs (in gang colors) browsed at the handgun case. They were the only other folks within ear shot, and my partner just started talking to me, with a wink and a nod in their direction, spewing some ridiculous misinformation:

"Man, it's a good thing that most people don't realize how much more powerful a 9mm handgun is when you shoot a .40 S&W through it like we do"

"I wish our department would ditch these Glocks and start issuing Hi-points. You never have to clean a hi-point, and they're the only gun that'll shoot even better when they're lubricated with water... which means I don't have to buy oil"

"I went to this training class a few weeks back, and they showed us how to shoot better using a new technique from the special forces. We were taught to use one hand so that the other hand was free, and to hold our palm facing down, which places the gun on its side. That way there's less recoil and you can shoot the bad guy more times".

For some reason our local thugs seem to like talking about guns with cops, even when we're working on the street, and after he "rudely" overheard our conversation, one of these guys asked my partner what he was carrying for duty use:

"Ehhh. I've got a Glock, but I'm really trying to get my department to switch to Hipoint. They're a lot better".
 
lions: said:
Yeah, but have you ever noticed that when a person is talking about guns, the volume of their voice is almost always inversely proportional to their firearm knowledge? Now some people just talk loudly, but I've yet to see a person who is spouting firearm misinformation use their inside voice.
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Well, you've got me there for sure.

As a matter of fact I have witnessed that very phenomena and it ain't evesdropping when someone is speaking that loudly.

When that happens, I find myself looking for the nearest route of escape since I suffer from a severe case of CSS*.


*Can't Stand Stupidity
 
Action Can Do said:
I overheard one teenager telling his friend that the 9mm was more powerful than the 357 magnum. When I stuck my nose in and told him it wasn't, he told me it is when it's fired through a Glock.
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Ah yes, teenagers who think they know all about guns because they've used them in video games.

I try not to judge. Who among us wasn't clueless yet thought they knew everything when they were a teenager?
 
"I am not trying to say that the 9mm cartridge is more powerful than the .357 cartridge. What I am saying is that the 9mm glock has potential to do more damage than a weapon chambered in .357."

The original poster was not addressing the fact that the Glock holds more rounds and because of that would be more deadly. It was merely that the 9mm was more powerful than a .357 mag when fired from a Glock. You could kill 10 squirrels with a Ruger 10-22 and one buffalo with a Sharps 45-70. Does that make the .22 cal more powerful than a 45-70? Mark
 
I overheard one teenager telling his friend that the 9mm was more powerful than the 357 magnum. When I stuck my nose in and told him it wasn't, he told me it is when it's fired through a Glock
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Lots of people making fun of the kid. Actually, when looked at from a certain perspective, he might be right.

Now, don't eat me, I'll explain!

Let's say we have a .357 coming out of a snubnose revolver, and we compare that to a 9mm coming out of a 4inch barrel Glock.

According to Ballistics By The Inch, with a 2 inch barrel, .357 Federal 125 grain JHP will come out at 949 FPS.
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html

However, out of a 4 inch barrel, the 9mm Federal 124 grain Hydra-shock JHP will come out at 1061 FPS. The Speer 124 grain Gold Dot Short Barrel will exit at 1203.
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9mmluger.html

Now, I know those aren't EXACTLY a precise comparison, but I picked those two loads because they're only 1 grain off of the bullet weight on the .357 load, and they're standard pressure loads, not +p. The other numbers of the 4 inch barrel 9mm are pretty similar, even in higher and lower bullet weights.

Something else to consider is that the .357 is going to lose some velocity when fired out of the revolver, due to the barrel/cylinder gap. The testing in the links above was done with a Thompson Center Contender, so the numbers don't reflect that gap, and the 9mm out of the Glock isn't subject to that handicap.

Now, I'm not saying the kid neccesarily knew that himself, but he does have a semi-valid point, nonetheless.

Personally, I'd still prefer to have a .357 revolver over a 9mm Glock.

But then again, I like revolvers, and I'm not real fond of Glocks. :)

Is it safe to take off my flame suit now? :p
 
crabpirate said:
I've had my eyes roll so far back in my skull i think I saw myself as both an infant and a corpse before.

I was at my local gun store, browsing through some of their milsurp stuff, when I overhear one of the two guys who just entered the room tell the other that a pump action shotgun is the best weapon for home defense, because 9 times out of 10 the intruder will crap his pants and flee the second he hears the action being worked.

Because we all know that owning a firearm for home defense, means simply brandishing it intimidatingly, and not having the resolve to use it.
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Um... the pump shotgun is almost universally considered great home defense weapon, the sound of one being racked is intimidating, and slightly more than 90% of self-defense incidents with a gun (According to Kleck, at least) are resolved simply by the defender referring to a gun or brandishing one.
 
Packman-

Note that in the tests you linked to they say that they measured the test barrel from the breach face as on a rifle, not from the forcing cone as on a revolver.

Since COL for a .357 is around 1.6 inches, the effective test barrel length for the "2 inch" barrel is closer to 0.40 inches. No wonder performance was so low!

Sure we can deduct some velocity due to the revolver's cylinder gap, but the referenced tests are not representative of snub nosed revolver performance.

Bob
 
Listening to folk talk about guns in person is no different than reading folk's posts about guns here on the internet. Some are informative, some are funny and some are downright stupid. Sometimes you walk away enlightened and sometimes you walk away entertained.
 
I eaves drop now and then. I very seldom comment though as it is another's conversation.

I also look at pretty women as they walk by and sometimes the wife catches me.... Just can't help it I guess!!!

Guess I'm human.

The Dove
 
Madcap_Magician, I don't doubt that, but relying on that to stop a threat is more than incompetent, it's negligent. While I'm not personally a gambling man, one would have to have some serious faith in lady luck to risk your entire family's safety on a scary noise maker.

look, I'm sure that it works sometimes, hell it may always work, but realistically you should train and prepare for the worst case scenario. I mean, in most tactical shotgun courses they don't have the students line up, stare at their targets menacingly, and rack the action. They make the students shoot them. Because buckshot is more likely to stop an intruder than any frightening sound.
 
buck460XVR said:
Listening to folk talk about guns in person is no different than reading folk's posts about guns here on the internet. Some are informative, some are funny and some are downright stupid. Sometimes you walk away enlightened and sometimes you walk away entertained.
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And sometimes you walk away dumber...at least some people do...but not me, of course.
 
I was dragged into a convo on CCW

I was on the metro (DC) which was not very full, in fact there were only 4 other people in this car. The two girls were having a conversation/discussion on CCW, when one says "You have been listening to our converation, what do you think..." I withheld the fact that I was a CCW instructor (VA/ME/UT/FL) until after I made my points and the three of us chatted for about 10 minutes on the pros and cons etc...

Before they invited me to join in I was tryign REALLY hard to resist the urge to jump in. But I have joined in unsolicited before.
 
Packman-

Note that in the tests you linked to they say that they measured the test barrel from the breach face as on a rifle, not from the forcing cone as on a revolver.

Since COL for a .357 is around 1.6 inches, the effective test barrel length for the "2 inch" barrel is closer to 0.40 inches. No wonder performance was so low!

Sure we can deduct some velocity due to the revolver's cylinder gap, but the referenced tests are not representative of snub nosed revolver performance.
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Bob,

Good point. I hadn't thought of that. If you scroll down, they have "real gun" tests. That same Federal load out of a 3" barrel Bond Texas Defender yielded 1246-pretty much on par with the 9mm.

The 3" barrel is probably measured from the breechface and includes the chamber, on that particular gun. So, subtracting the length of the cartridge, we're pretty close to a 2" barrel, giving pretty similar performance to the 9mm in the 4 inch barrel. That still doesn't account for the cylinder gap, but I honestly don't know how much you actually lose to that. Probably depends on the revolver, I'd imagine.

So, maybe not the gap I was thinking, but about an on-par performance, I would say.
 
Assuming that you can get a kill shot from every single bullet in a mag or cylinder the 9mm glock has more "killing power/potential." Though the .357 can really kill the crap out of you and can probably do it more efficiently than a glock, there is a reason why hardly any police force carries a .357 wheel gun anymore. I actually know of none but I don't doubt that it is possible. :what:
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If you get a kill shot out of every single bullet, why do you need more than one round?

Re. the pump action shotgun for home defense. The sound of the slide being worked on a pump action shotgun is one of the most distinctive sounds one will ever hear, and for years has been referred to as a Christian maker.
 
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If you get a kill shot out of every single bullet, why do you need more than one round?
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Because a kill shot and an instant kill shot are different things. You make take 20 minutes to bleed out with an "ok" placed .22 - it's a kill shot but you still need more.
 
I recently (just this past week) heard a coworker commenting to a group of other like-minded coworkers how Glocks are automatic (in the true sense of the word) weapons that are invisible to airline security screening devices and metal detectors found at most schools.
 
I was in IHOP the other day, eating alone, and I shamelessly eavesdropped on a gun conversation occurring at the table behind me. It was to guys (mid-70's) and their wives talking about CCW guns. They were very interested in The Judge, and that was mainly the topic of conversation.

I did hear one of them say, in all seriousness, something classic that I had previously thought to be a phrase that only existed in legend. It cracked me up, he said "I carry a 45 because I heard from some vets that if you even hit someone in the finger it will spin em' around and drop em' dead."
 
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