Featureless, limited capacity AR-15 vs Tactical Shotgun

[herrwalther]

The advantages (over a shotgun) of a properly configured featureless AR are the same as a regular one.

I disagree. A shotgun is a relatively safe firearm when it comes to anti gun laws. There is nothing stopping California government from saying configuration A of a featureless AR is legal now but will be illegal soon. A good example is all the bullet button requirements that were the rage for years now moved to a fixed magazine build. Same thing with the SAFE act in NY. When the bill first passed, before court injunctions, having 8 rounds in a firearm meant a felony. Also featureless ARs and parts tend to be more expensive than a regular AR and a lot more expensive than buying a stock shotgun.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

From what I have seen, majority of people agree that for home defense or SHTF scenarios AR-15 is the preferred long gun when compared with 12GA shotgun.

But in my state the kind of AR-15 you can legally get is not exactly what one has in mind when talking about AR-15. The one I got to hold in store the other day had fixed 10 round mag you could not even drop without opening up receiver. Having said that, you can still get LEO/Mil spec shotgun, as long as you get domestic gun or know your way around 922(r) compliance.

So is AR-15 with imposed limitations still the better choice, or the shotgun is starting to look better? Are there other options out there? I was looking at M1 carbine, but the ammo seems on the costly side. Perhaps Mini-14 is the way to go?

I didn't read through the whole thread.

I live in the sticks. I keep a G17 loaded for a go to bedside gun but I also have a 18.5" 12g pump at the ready for not only HD but any form of critter we might encounter out here. Just suits my need better.

I've got AR's but they're not "RTG". Things in the world have to get a little worse for me to start staging those.

12g with slugs in addition to my pistol is going to take take care of 99.9% of problems out here.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

I disagree. A shotgun is a relatively safe firearm when it comes to anti gun laws. There is nothing stopping California government from saying configuration A of a featureless AR is legal now but will be illegal soon. A good example is all the bullet button requirements that were the rage for years now moved to a fixed magazine build. Same thing with the SAFE act in NY. When the bill first passed, before court injunctions, having 8 rounds in a firearm meant a felony. Also featureless ARs and parts tend to be more expensive than a regular AR and a lot more expensive than buying a stock shotgun.

Nothing is safe in CA. The market finds ways around all the unconstitutional nonsense.

And there's always simple non compliance with the tyranny.

As a CA resident, parts for featureless are not expensive. Hell we sell them off the shelf that way.

 

[Capybara]

I'm in California. I like my ARs but for HD, I prefer my Beretta 1301 Tactical or my S&W M&P 12 Bullpump. I live in a shared wall
Townhome and #4 Buck seems like it has lesser penetration of drywall than .223, based upon numerous tests and reports I have read
and watched with YouTube test videos.

The Beretta holds 7 + 1 and the M&P 12 can hold up to 23 Mini Shells, which are powerful enough for HD. My ARs are featureless
and it's not that big of a deal as far as shooting but for me, shotguns are a better choice for HD, at least inside my home.

If I had a larger, non-shared wall home and a decent sized lot, I would use an AR.

 

[SwampWolf]

Beware of dog signs (even if you dont have a dog) are a good thing to have posted around the home

I have a sign on the back porch that reads "Warning! Bad Ass Dog on Duty"-even though she's a Brittany Spaniel that might bark at a burglar but would never bite one. If said burglar were to offer her (Lily) a hamburger, she probably wouldn't even bark. All of which is to say, when the chips are down, I'll be counting on a Benelli M4, stuffed with #4 Buck, to counter an assault-while Lily dials 911.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

Get a Ruger PC carbine in 9mm or .40 S&W, configure it to work with Glock magazines, and drive-on.

 

[vintovka]

I prefer a shotgun. That said if all this stuff about ars is intended to dissuade folks from buying one why has demand grown so much?

 

[Smaug]

For home defense in the LA area, a shotgun would be much-preferred. Get some buck shot loads. Maybe a factory one without shoulder stock, if that's legal, so you can maneuver around corners indoors better.

With buck shot, it'll penetrate a few layers of a wall, but probably wouldn't go as far as a 5.56 would go.

I don't have an AR-15 or shotgun, but seeing as how they're looking to ban "high capacity" magazines again, I bought five 30-round mags the other day. Call it an investment. I don't really want an AR-15 either, but I'm tempted to buy one while I can "just in case".

Semi-auto shotguns will likely be banned soon, if Pelosi gets her way, but I think I'd rather have a pump anyhow.

 

[Smaug]

Get a Ruger PC carbine in 9mm or .40 S&W, configure it to work with Glock magazines, and drive-on.

Great idea! ...or a Beretta CX-4, if you want something a bit more elegant.
...or a KelTec Sub2000 if those are CA-compliant.

 

[Smaug]

What does "featureless" mean?

"Features" are the things that CA has decided make the gun "evil"? Like folding stocks, standard capacity magazines and the color black?

 

[citizenconn]

I'm particular about the caliber and configuration of AR-15 I use for home defense as well as the ability to attach a suppressor. 5.56 is about my last choice in caliber for home defense simply because I have a half dozen or more better options. I also have a few shorter barrel shotguns and Shockwaves that I load with 12 ga mini shells that are quite effective, plus the mini shells double the capacity.

Both my elderly mother and petite (now ex) wife could handle both the Shockwaves and AR pistols better than any other options. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Capybara]

What does "featureless" mean?

"Features" are the things that CA has decided make the gun "evil"? Like folding stocks, standard capacity magazines and the color black?

You nailed it. Adjustable length shoulder stock, pistol grip, flash hider. Magazine capacity isn't part of a featureless configuration and color doesn't matter.

 

[redcon1]

I'd buy an M1 Garand before I'd buy a 10 round only AR15.

 

[Elkins45]

I may be channeling Massad Ayoob too much here but I would rather a Grand Jury be shown my pump shotgun rather than my evil AR-15 "high capacity assault rifle."

 

[Elkins45]

Get a Ruger PC carbine in 9mm or .40 S&W, configure it to work with Glock magazines, and drive-on.

This is a very reasonable option, except that in mag ban states you are still stuck with 10 rounds. A lever gun in 357 or 44 magnum also has some merit if fast reloads aren’t a concern. And if reloads are an issue remember you can buy two decent pump shotguns for not much more than a decent AR. Two Mossberg 590s give you 16 rounds of buck or slugs. That should fix most problems.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

I may be channeling Massad Ayoob too much here but I would rather a Grand Jury be shown my pump shotgun rather than my evil AR-15 "high capacity assault rifle."

The focus should probably be more on surviving the engagement and proper use of deadly force rather than perceptions of those not involved or what might happen after.

They will demonize whatever tool you use of they are looking to make an example out of you.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

I'd buy an M1 Garand before I'd buy a 10 round only AR15.

I have both.

The the purposes outlined in the thread, the AR is way better

 

[Styx]

I'd just get a shotgun or use an old fashion tried and true handgun that 98% of the rest of the country primarily uses or grabs for home defense.

 

[redcon1]

The the purposes outlined in the thread, the AR is way better

He mentioned a SHTF weapon. "majority of people agree that for home defense or SHTF scenarios AR-15 is the preferred long gun when compared with 12GA shotgun." The Garand would be better for this than a featureless AR15 that has been permanently limited to 10 rounds and which comes without the advantage of a detachable box magazine. A Garand might be a bit much for home defense but if my government put me in the position of having to choose between defending my home with a featureless 10 round 5.56 rifle that lacks a detachable box magazine or an M1 Garand, I would absolutely, without a doubt, pick the M1 Garand especially if I thought the rifle might have to serve double duty as a SHTF weapon. That 30/06 would be loaded up with black tips too, guaranteed.

 

[Mk-211]

Featureless AR's have a detachable magazine, every AR that I own here in CA is featureless, all have detachable mags. All have "muzzle brakes" and "pistol grips" also and they're 100% legal.

 

[vintovka]

Having worked for a regulatory enforcement we found that stringent controls usually backfired creating more problems than they solved. Its like trying to regulate cars with features like power steering or even oversized wheels or noisy exhaust. Such extreme controls result in increased demand and reduction in respect for laws in general. Given current LEO staffing issues enforcement seems just a suggestion. Moreover makes some think its intentional.

 

[Styx]

As others have noted, CA is extremely hostile towards AR15s and the like. One person uses one of those ugly neutered ARs in a mass shooting, and they be banned or have more restrictions put on them. Not worth the trouble and I personally wouldn't be interested in owning a neutered AR.

I wouldn't go M1 Garand either. Ammo is more expensive, not as readily available, and not ideal for home defense. I'd rather go with a Ruger Mini 14 and keep several loaded magazines on hand before going M1. With a Mini 14, your firearm would be covered under Ruger's excellent customer service, spare parts would be more readily available, and in a SHTF situation, ammo would be easy to find. The Mini 14 accepts factory magazines with capacity ranging from 5-30 rounds of 2.23/5.56..



Just for kicks... The Kel Tec KSG is 100% California legal, holds 14 rounds + 1 rounds of 12 guage, is extremely compact, but still has a 18.5" barrel. With its compact size and higher capacity, it's perfect for home defense and close quarter combat scenarios. 12 guage ammo is easy to find even during panic buying ammo shortages and is perfect for home defense and SHTF situations. There are a wide range of 12 guage ammo to choose from, and if need be, you could hunt and take down game with it whether it be birds, deer, etc. The KSG can be had for around $600-$650.



On top is a 18.5" barrel, 6+1 capacity Remington 870 with a pistol grip; A 14" barrel, 5+1 capacity Mossberg Shockwave with a bird grip; A 18.5" barrel, 14+1 capacity, Kel-Tec KSG with a full shoulder stock. (There is also the S&W M&P12 and IWI Tavor TS12)

 

[buck460XVR]

Im still in the Pump shotgun school for Home defense. Key word being defense. If I was living out in the country on a large spead of land then I would be more likely to choose an AR.

Same here. Longest shot I have within the confines of my home is 13 yards. And that spot is the most unlikely of any to be the spot of a shootout. Living in a residential neighborhood, I am surrounded on three sides by other homes. Having a rifle with the high probability of over penetration is not, IMHO, the best of choices. But that is just me. For me, my pump turkey gun, with it's 20" barrel, loaded with buckshot and tipped with a Cylinder choke, is my choice.

 

[Elkins45]

The focus should probably be more on surviving the engagement and proper use of deadly force rather than perceptions of those not involved or what might happen after.

They will demonize whatever tool you use of they are looking to make an example out of you.

Part of tactics is surviving what happens after all the trigger pulling is done. I agree they will try to demonize whatever gun you use, but that doesn’t mean you should make it easier for them.

FWIW I’m still firmly in the shotgun camp for home defense. The very first sentence of the post that started this thread was:

From what I have seen, majority of people agree that for home defense or SHTF scenarios AR-15 is the preferred long gun when compared with 12GA shotgun.

So IMO this whole thread started from a false premise.

 

[Styx]

Part of tactics is surviving what happens after all the trigger pulling is done. I agree they will try to demonize whatever gun you use, but that doesn’t mean you should make it easier for them.

FWIW I’m still firmly in the shotgun camp for home defense. The very first sentence of the post that started this thread was:


So IMO this whole thread started from a false premise.

I have not seen a scientific poll, but I would agree with the OP that from what I seen, the general consensus is that AR15s (2.23/5.56, 300blk) and shotguns are the most popular long gun platforms for self defense. Being the most popular and most owned rifle in the U.S., I believe AR15s are the go to for most if they were to grab a long gun for self defense. It's what I'd grab first too (not that there's anything wrong with shotguns). If I lived in CA, I'd definitely would go with a shotgun over their version of an AR.