FN Five seven is a cop killer gun...

[james481]

I prefer FN to 9mm in self defence situation 24/7/365

If I am viewing this right, that gelatin test show a little under 10 inches of penetration, which is totally insuffcient for SD use. Assume, say, that you have to penetrate a BG's arm to get to the torso (which is a condition of a fair percentage of SD shootings). The typical male arm is, what, 4 inches thick? Plus the 3 inches of gel pentration which is removed by pushing through the elastic skin on the backside of the arm. This leaves you with (best case senario) 3 inches of torso penetration, no more than a nasty flesh wound.

Penetration is directly inproportionate to killing power.

Hmmm, not sure what information you are basing this on, but it is contrary to almost all established thought in terminal ballistics research. In fact, penetration is THE KEY component of lethality in handgun rounds. Expansion is just an added benefit that you hope for, but never at the expense of penetration. "Energy dump" is a term made up by marketing people, not engineers. If your statement were, in fact, true, than the end-all be-all of SD rounds would be 12 guage bird shot. After all, it will only penetrate a couple of inches, expending all of it's energy in that span. And yet, it is woefullly inadequate as a SD round. Causes nasty flesh wounds, but lacks the penetration to be effective.

 

[mbs357]

Well, like I said, this is my speculation.
I speculate that a round that will stop sooner inside of the target will transfer more damaging energy.
But that's me, I could easily be wrong.

 

[Standing Wolf]

doesn't something have to be used to kill a cop, before it can be labeled a "cop killer"?

Hey. Be realistic, eh? If enough leftist extremists get their panties in a twist over it, it's a cop killer gun.

 

[Mr_Moore]

Everyone needs to watch that video!


As a side note: It looks like they dug up George Wendt from Cheers for that video.

Ok I took your advice, although I had to download Apple Quick Time. And then you stole my observation! I was going to say what was Norm doing in that video

Come to think of it, I look a lot like that guy...

Could you not coat most bullets with teflon and make them able to pierce that vest? I mean isn't that a function of the bullet and not the gun?

I am no expert on that subject.

Come to think of it I am no expert on a LOT of subjects...

 

[Mr_Moore]

http://matrix.dumpshock.com/raygun/armor/nij_lev.html

http://www.bulletproofme.com/Ballistic_Protection_Levels.shtml

Great sites.

 

[twoblink]

Wait wait wait.. I thought every bullet, put into the center point of mass of a cop, will kill him..:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

What a stupid comment..

Anything will kill a cop..

 

[chopinbloc]

teflon coating will not improve penetration. manufactureres used it in the past to reduce friction in the bore, thereby increasing barrel life and it a small increase in muzzle velocity. leftists got their panties in a wad, claiming that teflon coated bullets could do something they couldn't and manufacturers changed their products. today, there are some premium rifle round which are molybdenum coated for the same reason.

please, nobody tell these folks about ar-15 handguns. that would REALLY scare 'em. not twenty, but thirty rounds or more. ACTUALLY penetrate level iiia body armor and not some trumped up, faked test. concealable. accurate. probably would even have enough energy left over after penetration to create a decent wound cavity as well - not the pansy crap the 5.7 does. hmmm, they must be used to kill cops every day, right? right? well, okay, it hasn't happened yet but any minute now blood will run freely in the streets, right?

oh, and in phoenix, ALOT of cops use level iia vests. it stops common handgun rounds and even iia is super hot. i'm curious how many folks have actually worn body armor for any period of time. let me tell you that the level iiia vest i was required to wear felt like it was actively trying to kill me over an eight hour shift and that was the graveyard shift.

 

[twoblink]

Ooops.. I forgot to add, I have never seen a better infomercial for the Five-Seven.

Now I REALLY want one!!

Also, the guy talks about the Level 2A body armor being able to stop a "Dirty Harry" 44Mag. Errr..

I do know a cop who got shot from a 357Mag and he was wearing armor, he "lived" if you call 6 ribs broken and 4 months rehab living... and I couldn't imagine if it was a 44Mag..

Also, if you are a "good guy", why should local law enforcement worry about you carrying one?

 

[GregGry]

As soon as he said 44 magnum, I thought thats BS in my mind. Although the bullet might not penetrate (I think a good 44 mag would make quick work of that vest though) I would not want to be the one hit by the 44 mag.

 

[twoblink]

Who cares about penetration??

A slug will compress your chest hairs until they are touching your spine.. That don't leave much room for your lungs and other organs you want..

 

[Mad Chemist]

Penetration is directly inproportionate to killing power.

I'm not really sure what inproportionate means.
I'm familiar with direct/inverse proportionality, exponential, geometric, and logistic relations expressed via proportions, but not inproportionality.

Must be the "new" math.

Penetration IS closely related to lethality. I don't think it can be represented as a simple ratio, but it is one of the more significant factors.

 

[Ryder]

And how many military-duty .44 mag and .357 have you seen, Ryder?

The 357 and 44mag are very popular firearms in this country. The worry here was for civilian police officer vulnerability. It is extremely likely they would face the threat of these two calibers. What does military-duty have to do with that Medusa?

Anyway, in answer to your question. When I was in the military I'd estimate that at least half of us owned either a 357 or 44mag revolver. They were personal property however and not military issue. Funny thing is that if the need for instant firepower arose these guns are what we would have used because by the time some officer opened the safe and distributed ammo we'd have all been dead.

 

[Medusa]

Indeed, Ryder, but as I have mentioned earlier countless times, original 5.7x28mm ammo was created with military use in mind.

Anyway I do prefer a round that stays in the BG, I do mind shooting the granny behind BG. And 5.7 has a lot more energy per mm^2 that .45acp or 9mm.

EDITED: local PD also tested the TT-s ability to punch through body armor (regular police issue) and it didn't. Also I have noticed several happy events, like a Makarov falling out of cop's holster onto stonefloor, in the middle of railway station, at the rushhour (to give some extra to Brian 2 posts after mine).

 

[WarMachine]

My Taurus could be a cop-killer if an individual with that intent was behind the wheel; and I'm pretty sure a IIA vest won't stop at 3500lb car. I guess they need to restrict the sales of Tauruses too

 

[Brian41]

It was very informative lol. I wondered were they got it as well. It probably is from their collection, after all they are ex officers, they can handle such things . I am not afraid of a law abiding citizen owning one of thoes, and I am going to be a officer in the near future. I fear the crack addict with the .22 and the balls to pull the trigger thats robbing someplace, and nobody is armed to take him out.

EDIT: Check this site out, I can't believe how much info they have on the 5.7.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.7mm

I'm sure glad those guys are well trained and better adept to handle firearms that a dangerous person like my self who has a CCW and can have a gun to do whatever i want on a bad day....i guess that means i can ignore all the times those safe ex-LEO's ignored some of the main safety rules. I counted several times they had the muzzle pointed at eachother in the opening segment, not to mention the bigger guy never once cleared the weapon he fired before he checked his target..and to my best checking the slide was never locked back. I'm gonna take some safety lessons from these Chumps.

ooh yeah... and i can't believe that the 5.7 would go through a car door, wind shield, adn even a wall...definately a first handgun to acheive those accolades.

ignorant fools

now i really want to go to the range today

 

[Danus ex]

And what are the chances criminals would actually obtain a Five-seveN? They don't exactly stock vending machines with them.

 

[benEzra]

Regarding IIA stopping .44 magnum, the Bradyite on the video got his ratings confused. He's citing IIIA ratings, not IIA; IIA isn't rated for .357, never mind .44 magnum.

 

[DRZinn]

He said you can "fire it off just as fast as you can pull your finger."

Hmmmm...

(I can fire one off just as soon as you pull my finger, too...)

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Yeah, it penetrates most cop vests. And so does just about every deer rifle out there. Big deal.

 

[Kurush]

Yeah, it penetrates most cop vests. And so does just about every deer rifle out there. Big deal.

Another rifle caliber, the 30-30 caliber, was responsible for penetrating three officers' armor and killing them in 1993, 1996, and 2002. This ammunition is also capable of puncturing light-armored vehicles, ballistic or armored glass, armored limousines, even a 600-pound safe with 600 pounds of safe armor plating.

It is outrageous and unconscionable that such ammunition continues to be sold in the United States of America. Armor-piercing ammunition for rifles and assault weapons is virtually unregulated in the United States. A Federal license is not required to sell such ammunition unless firearms are sold as well. Anyone over the age of 18 may purchase this ammunition without a background check. There is no Federal minimum age of possession. Purchases may be made over the counter, by mail order, by fax, by Internet, and there is no Federal requirement that dealers retain sales records.
--- Senator Edward Kennedy, New York (February 26, 2004, Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, Congressional Record, (Pp. S1634-5)

 

[turretG]

Forget watching the video. I'm downloading it.
Also, after watching the video, can you say REPETITIVE? I should count how many times he said "penetrate police body armor."

It's called brainwashing.:banghead:

 

[ctdonath]

'course they fail to note that the kind of 5.7mm bullets needed to penetrate body armor are simply not available to citizens.

 

[georgeduz]

are your sure that is not an ad ,makes me want to go out and buy one.

 

[ghost squire]

I speculate that a round that will stop sooner inside of the target will transfer more damaging energy.

To where though. Empty flesh containing no major blood bearing vessels if it has to pass through 3 layers of clothing at a minimum, 7 inches of arm flesh etc etc.

And your right, it is speculation that the energy from that round will do anything significant. In fact the established wound ballistics organizations and a large body of evidence show the opposite.

 

[GregGry]

'course they fail to note that the kind of 5.7mm bullets needed to penetrate body armor are simply not available to citizens.

He claimed to be using ss192, which is availible to us, along with the ss195. The SS190 is the stuff we can't get, thats the stuff that is steel, and not a hollow tip.