Garland Texas shooting, handgun used

[RustyShackelford]

G2 rip ....

Will DRT or RIP have this crew do a ad?

Really I'm curious what .45acp load the cop used.
A HST? A Ranger T/T Series? A Glaser Safety Slug?

Rusty

 

[X-Rap]

Which doesn't bother me in the least.
I fully support the right of police officers to dress however they want and carry whatever firearms they need to do their job and go home at night.

I find the fairly recent "militarization of police" paranoia hysterically funny......cops have been carrying the same small arms, adopting military style uniforms and rank and using military surplus vehicles and weapons for DECADES. It ain't nothing new.

Sure there is a place for men equipped like that, sadly when we see them the most it is 20-30 min after any action has ceased. These guys had to go to the trouble of donning all that gear so they could post up for security after a 60 year old traffic cop did his job.
To put my post in context I was pointing out the absurdity of believing that those guys were inside that building as a second layer of defense. The Paramilitary Cops always are reactive to these situations, line cops are the first law and order that will be responding to these types of attacks and joe citizen will be the most likely to stumble across it before anyone else.
My point in all this is that we collectively need to get ready, It's ironic that the last responders are the best trained and equipped and if history is any indicator, as things regress it will only get worse as the individual will be restricted and the authorities will be given more.

 

[dogtown tom]

X-Rap.......Sure there is a place for men equipped like that, sadly when we see them the most it is 20-30 min after any action has ceased. These guys had to go to the trouble of donning all that gear so they could post up for security after a 60 year old traffic cop did his job.
To put my post in context I was pointing out the absurdity of believing that those guys were inside that building as a second layer of defense....

You and a few others need to do a bit of fact checking because nothing you've posted is remotely correct.
Garland SWAT was on scene before the event began. They were posted inside the building as well as outside.

Once the shooting started they responded...some to the crime scene, some helped move event participants to a safer location inside the building.

Your belief that they arrived 20-30 minutes after gunfire is simply untrue.

 

[Deaf Smith]

X,

Did you know cops take on jobs when off duty? Like protecting banks, or concerts, or, uh, art exhibits? Done all the time in Dallas, just go to Fair Park when a band is there. I see them all the time.

I have no doubt these guys were there to begin with and they were LEO paid to protect the exhibit. They didn't just stand there at the front door but were kept inside, probably in a room, just for emergencies while the uniformed cops and guards were outside.

It was a high profile exhibit where there was a possibility of a nutjob attacking. In this case they tried.. and died.

Mercenaries? Actually when you think about it, anyone who packs a gun for pay, be it a guard or cop, is a mercenary. So what?

You are making a conspiracy theory where there was no conspiracy.

Deaf

 

[Snyper]

Mercenaries for hire? Did Garland deputize them or are they impersonating peace officers by wearing POLICE on their body armor?

I only see one with anything on their armor, and it's not readable, nor does it match the others

None of the others have any identifying insignia at all

 

[TimSr]

I find the fairly recent "militarization of police" paranoia hysterically funny......cops have been carrying the same small arms, adopting military style uniforms and rank and using military surplus vehicles and weapons for DECADES. It ain't nothing new.

Remember the 1070's TV series "S.W.A.T." ?

 

[BLB68]

Remember the 1070's TV series "S.W.A.T." ?

I remember it. Those guys had the best armor and swords.

 

[Malamute]

Crossbows too!

 

[X-Rap]

Did you know cops take on jobs when off duty? Like protecting banks, or concerts, or, uh, art exhibits? Done all the time in Dallas, just go to Fair Park when a band is there. I see them all the time.

Seen plenty of off duty LE at the County Fair and working security at different venues but never dressed in full battle rattle.
It would really surprise me if those guys were there prior but it could be. I can't think of a time when I've heard of such a presence unless some attack was eminent.
I'm not anti cop or anything of the sort, all I'm trying to say is that you can't count on having a big can of whoup ass like that at every target in the US. We can't collectively afford it and I hope our sense of liberty forbids it.

 

[hatt]

I'm waiting for the actual report to come out. I'm betting someone with a carbine or maybe a sniper helped dispatch the terrorists.

 

[hoghunting]

Snyper: I only see one with anything on their armor, and it's not readable, nor does it match the others

None of the others have any identifying insignia at all

dogtown tom was correct, those are GPD SWAT officers.

X-Rap: It would really surprise me if those guys were there prior but it could be. I can't think of a time when I've heard of such a presence unless some attack was eminent

Well then be really surprised as there were uniformed, undercover and SWAT officers there before the exhibit opened.

 

[dogtown tom]

X-Rap ...It would really surprise me if those guys were there prior but it could be. I can't think of a time when I've heard of such a presence unless some attack was eminent...

If you watched the numerous press briefings by the Garland PD public information officer you wouldn't be surprised.

If you think SWAT waits until the uh oh moment to put on their gear you would be wrong.

I've worked four soccer events at Cowboys Stadium since it opened. While you'll only see "normal" patrol and traffic officers in the public areas, a trip downstairs to the loading dock/basement/locker rooms you'll find Arlington PD SWAT outfitted just as the Garland SWAT officers were.......and Arlington even brings their Bearcat armored vehicle and the bomb dogs.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Fox news says now the FBI send the Garland PD info that a 'Texas' shooter might attack the gathering about 2 hrs before the shooting. They even send the DL photo of the would-be-shooter.

So it appears the people involved with protecting the art festival were forewarned.

So some may have donned gear expecting a battle.

Deaf

 

[dogtown tom]

Deaf Smith Fox news says now the FBI send the Garland PD info that a 'Texas' shooter might attack the gathering about 2 hrs before the shooting. They even send the DL photo of the would-be-shooter.

NBC5 in Dallas just had Joe Harn with Garland PD on at 6pm...........he said they never received any info from the FBI.

 

[Deaf Smith]

NBC5 in Dallas just had Joe Harn with Garland PD on at 6pm...........he said they never received any info from the FBI.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/05/07/isis-attacks-us/70945534/

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/fbi-says-it-alerted-garland-police-about-elton-simpson-n355526

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2015/05/07/fbi-warned-garland-police-before-attack/

"FBI Director James Comey said Thursday that hours before the attempted Garland attack, FBI agents sent a bulletin to local authorities indicating that Simpson may have been interested in traveling there from Phoenix to attend the conference featuring controversial cartoon depictions of the prophet Mohammed. At the time, Comey said, agents did not have specific information that Simpson had targeted the meeting."

So I guess Joe Harn didn't get the memo.

Deaf

 

[dogtown tom]

Fox news says now the FBI send the Garland PD info that a 'Texas' shooter might attack the gathering about 2 hrs before the shooting. They even send the DL photo of the would-be-shooter.

That isn't what the FBI said they sent in the bulletin:

"FBI Director James Comey said Thursday that hours before the attempted Garland attack, FBI agents sent a bulletin to local authorities indicating that Simpson may have been interested in traveling there from Phoenix to attend the conference featuring controversial cartoon depictions of the prophet Mohammed. At the time, Comey said, agents did not have specific information that Simpson had targeted the meeting."

 

[Malamute]

I'm waiting for the actual report to come out. I'm betting someone with a carbine or maybe a sniper helped dispatch the terrorists.

Why?

You dont think he could hit them from 20 or so feet away?

 

[RustyShackelford]

County Sheriff's SWAT, crisis event.....

My county's large SWAT unit uses the newer Crye Precision MultiCam camo.
They use HK UMPs in .45acp which I'm 90% sure are select fire. The sworn SWAT deputies also have M4s(Bushmaster) with different red dot optics.
For sidearms they wear Glock 21 gen 04 .45acp pistols(the entire office upgraded about 4mo ago).
They also have .50BMG, .338Lapula, 7.62mm sniper rifles too.
About 6 years ago, the elected sheriff at the time used a grant/$$$ to purchase a few high caliber bolt action & semi auto rifles using the excuse that local zoos or game preserves may have large animals escape, .

The local SWAT & SRT units also have MRAPs/up-armored vehicles for barricade situations & intimidation.
One recent county SWAT incident had a armed subject shoot up a SWAT vehicle.
That was a tough day at the office.

Rusty

 

[PabloJ]

Mercenaries for hire? Did Garland deputize them or are they impersonating peace officers by wearing POLICE on their body armor?

Police tactical response units dress and arm like elite commandos. It could be law enforcement officers.

 

[Silverado6x6]

I know this, war is here, just bought an upgraded barrel for my G21, a new grip and a pair of +2 extensions for the mags, and a light leather jacket with a very nicely done gun pocket built in.
Profiling every step i go, i know they are out there watching us, looking for a target, because its apparently lone wolves there is no real sense of logic, they may attack a place knowing full well its a heavily armed fortress. Just so they can meet their "virgins", which i seriously doubt in whatever afterlife.

 

[lemaymiami]

I've had occasion to work with my department's SRT (what we called our swat team) way back when. All of the team members on our 100 man department were volunteers and their SRT duties were in addition to their normal jobs. Each one carried all their turn out gear in their vehicles (in addition to whatever gear was needed for their normal jobs....). Most were also firearms instructors and the kind of guys/gals that were very likely to be at a firing range somewhere once or twice a month on their own time if we didn't have a special unit for them...

Many times a specialized team will get a call out after the balloon goes up so many in the general public figure they're just window dressing -but given the slightest advance notice our outfit would do recons, and very carefully plan each action in advance (all the way down to which way doors to buildings open (in or out), whether they'll be dealing with a hardened structure and both the past history and current intel estimates of who their opponents are likely to be....

Most of this stuff is never in the public eye - but it's more important than the actual weapons being carried. I always advocated that a swat or srt unit should be used for each and every possible hazardous warrant service (this sort of stuff keeps them sharp and working well together). It also helps to overcome the frequent screw-ups, the surprises you actually encounter in any kind of armed operation, etc.

I know that there's strong public opinion against any form of militarized police unit - but there's times and situations when they're the best choice in a possibly armed confrontation. I'm personally familiar with incidents where armed individuals that certainly would have assaulted any street cop quickly stood down when confronted with a serious planned police action by a well co-ordinated team that moved quickly with overwhelming force........


My proudest moment in police work was the day some of our team members asked me to be their commander... My smartest move back then was to turn them down (I'd already been accused of murder for an incident on the job previously and believed I'd be pushing my luck and the team's good reputation if I became their commander..).

 

[Malamute]

Police tactical response units dress and arm like elite commandos. It could be law enforcement officers.

So, if they arent dressed the way you think they should be, they must not be anything more than hired mercenaries or street cops with extra gear?

OK.

 

[hoghunting]

PabloJ: Police tactical response units dress and arm like elite commandos. It could be law enforcement officers.

There is no could be about it, THEY ARE GPD OFFICERS.

 

[hatt]

Why?

You dont think he could hit them from 20 or so feet away?

It's possible. But it doesn't sound right. Especially the perps allegedly with armor and long guns. All the other police were hanging out on the loading dock playing cards? I don't know how the police operate but I know if I were running the show, if I cared enough to have SWAT there I'd have some folks observing the area ready to take action.

 

[Malamute]

It's possible. But it doesn't sound right. Especially the perps allegedly with armor and long guns. All the other police were hanging out on the loading dock playing cards? I don't know how the police operate but I know if I were running the show, if I cared enough to have SWAT there I'd have some folks observing the area ready to take action.

I'm not completely following, but it looks like they had somebody there that was ready to take action, and took care of the issue.

It would appear that he was capable of figuring out what to do. At this point, the reports indicate that they were head and neck shot. First reports in the media are often incorrect. Unedited video seems to bear this out though.

The long guns are a moot point. They initiated action, he responded effectively. What type arms they had is irrelevant at that point.